Polk Audio S60 exaggerated lower mid just over bass frequency

Rouzbeh

Hello,
I got my S60 a week ago.
I’m Listening mostly to music and I can hear that they are boosting the lower mid range (where bass almost begins) way more than proportion to the point my ear begin to heart.
Have anybody had experienced the same thing?

Clipdat

What are you powering them with?

F1nut

What are you driving them with? What is your source? What cables are you using? Hard floor or carpet? Do you get a slap echo from a single hand clap?

Rouzbeh

Thanks for your responds, I run them by Yamaha rs202 but I checked them with my friend’s receiver, Sony 1080 and still the same problem. Last night I found that the frequency range that gives me headache is between 50 to 100 Hz,
Do you recommend a subwoofer such as Polk audio sw10? I can use the speaker level in and out channels but I’m not sure if the subwoofer’s speaker level out Channels cuts the low frequencies out When sending the signal to the speakers.
And yes, I do have hard floor, I’m using 16 gage cables and the speakers are 10 feet apart.
One of the songs that this happens awfully is Ariana Grande’s “side to side” track.

Rouzbeh

Also The beginning of Adele’s “send my love” track which has bass guitar this is very obvious, looks like the guitar bass have exaggerated Volume way out of proportion.

F1nut

Ok, at only a week old your speakers are not broken in yet. Your $150.00 Yamaha weighing in at 15 lbs. does not spec well at 100 watts x 2 into 8 ohms (40Hz -20,000 kHz), so there's that. Your friend's Sony isn't much better and it's an AVR, which are not known for their musical sound quality. In addition, the Sony house sound leaves a lot to be desired. A hard floor will generally result in a hard sound. If possible get some area rugs to help dampen the slap echo. If you're sticking with the Yamaha adding a sub would be a good idea because the Yamaha has got next to nothing below 40Hz, which means your speakers don't either. If that doesn't help consider replacing the Yamaha with something better. All that said, of course you may simply not like the Polk speakers regardless.

It takes work to get good sound, so don't give up. Play with the placement and toe in of your speakers. If close to the rear wall move them out into the room more. From your seat you generally want them toed in so that you just see the beginning of the inside edge/side.

Rouzbeh

Thanks a lot F1nut! Much appreciated! what receiver do you recommend?

audioluvr

Well this one comes to mind.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_958MAC7200/McIntosh-MAC7200.html

Rouzbeh

OK thanks Audioluvr, but looking for something less than $700

Clipdat

Lots of great options to consider on the used market at/around that price.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649659557-marantz-pm-8005-integrated-amplifier/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649669135-rotel-a12-integrated-stereo-amplifier/

https://tmraudio.com/components/integrated-amplifiers/rotel-ra-1520-stereo-integrated-amplifier-ra1520-mm-phono-remote/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649668522-cambridge-audio-azur-851a-stereo-integrated-amplifier/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649660619-denon-pma-2000r-integrated-amplifier/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649619928-music-hall-mambo-class-a-integrated-amp/

F1nut

Rouzbeh wrote: »

Thanks a lot F1nut! Much appreciated! what receiver do you recommend?

I highly recommend you look for an integrated amplifier instead of a receiver. If you'd like to stick with Yamaha and can stretch your budget another $100 take a look at the S-701. If you can stretch it $200 look at the S-801, which has a bit beefier power supply even though they have the same rated power.

Play with that speaker placement.

Clipdat

Rouzbeh wrote: »

Ariana Grande’s “side to side”

Rouzbeh wrote: »

Adele’s “send my love”

From what source are you playing these songs from?

F1nut

Clipdat's buying used is an excellent suggestion for getting more for less.

Rouzbeh

Thanks clipdat for your suggestions, I’m playing Ariana‘s song from iPad’s Bluetooth and Adele’s song from CD player connected to Yamaha receiver.
If you guys have listened to S60 and did not notice such an exaggeration on that low frequencies, then I’m thinking that the problem might be my ears...the other day I went to listen to Klipsch RF82 Mark II and I could not hear this problem on them in the shop, however I’m not sure if I get the same result at home or will find other problems if I buy them... I have to make a decision before this Saturday to keep or return the S60

Rouzbeh

Thanks a lot F1nut for your recommendations, I’m reading about s-701 and s-801...

Clipdat

Rouzbeh wrote: »

Thanks clipdat for your suggestions, I’m playing Ariana‘s song from iPad’s Bluetooth and Adele’s song from CD player connected to Yamaha receiver.

In my opinion, Bluetooth doesn't have any place in serious HiFi/critical listening. So I would not use the performance of anything played via Bluetooth to form an opinion on the sound quality of the speakers.

Good for you for having a CD player though. I would rely on that for all of my evaluations of the speakers.

Also like Jesse mentioned, pulling the speakers out and away from the wall, placing them further into the room, will reduce the boominess of the bass and mid-bass.

Rouzbeh

Thanks a lot Clipdat, much appreciated!

Clipdat

Post up some pics of the setup if you aren't too shy and we would be happy to help with suggestions. Or you could draw a simple diagram with the distances between the speakers listed, distance from speaker to your listening position, dimensions of the room, etc.

Basically the more information you can give us the better. We want to make the speakers work in your space. Quality electronics are part of the equation, but even if you aren't looking to upgrade your gear right now, some simple re-arrangement of things could go a long way toward improving your sound.

Welcome to the forum, hope you stick around and share your audio journey with us.

WLDock

Here are some measurements of the S60. From these tests when placed far out in an open room the bass does not look boosted but looks competent. However when placed near the walls the effectiveness of the Power Port may be too much in some rooms.

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/polk-signature-s60-speaker-system-review-test-bench

This graph shows the quasi-anechoic (employing close-miking of all woofers) frequency response of the S60 L/R (purple trace), PSW125 subwoofer (blue trace), S35 center channel (green trace), and S20 surround (red trace). All passive loudspeakers were measured with grilles at a distance of 1 meter with a 2.83-volt input and scaled for display purposes.

The S60’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +3.16/–1.97 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3dB point is at 44 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 36 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.24 ohms at 8.3 kHz and a phase angle of –64.83 degrees at 74 Hz.



Here are some measurements of the S60 at the wall and out from the wall in the sweet spot without and with Dirac Live room correction.

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/av-nirvana-speaker-evaluation-event-tower-speakers-1200-or-less-results.1640/post-15065

AV Nirvana wrote:

The Polk Signature S60 is a “4-driver cascading tapered crossover array” design featuring a 1-inch Terylene HF driver and three 6-inch MF/LF drivers with mica-reinforced polypropylene cones and 4-layer voice coils, and the Polk Power Port omnidirectional bass port on the bottom of the cabinet. The tapered crossover array helps smooth driver integration. Anti-diffraction cabinet and grille designs promote sharp imaging. Sensitivity with 1 W @ 1 m = 90 dB. The Polk Power Port makes the S60 more placement-friendly, balancing boundary reinforcement and smoother bass response when located closer to a wall.

At wall, no Dirac Live

The mid-frequency trough in the frequency response was quite obvious close to the wall, forcing tonality issues upon most of my tracks. The kick drum, vocals, and piano on Sardines were all very thick and heavy, with the vocal/piano combo especially bloated and muddy on more resonant notes. On Roscoe, the SS was very wide with good separation above the lower-mids muddiness, but had no depth.

The kick drum on Remember was deeper than the frequencies of those response peaks, so that track came across fairly clean. Goes to show that one or two test tracks are not enough, you have to make sure your tracks hit all the potential trouble-trigger points to really know what a speaker will do in a given configuration.

Piano dynamics were handled well on Variations, although overall tonality of the Overs piano was less than true. On Shame, Cindy’s vocals were off-center and the HF sheen on her voice was not centered on the main vocal image.

At wall, with Dirac Live

The main tonality issues were resolved by the addition of Dirac Live. The piano sound was true, but still no magical tinkle. All muddiness and bloating were completely gone and the sought-after punch and impact were just what was needed for the kick drum on Sardines. The difference experienced by applying Dirac Live would stump most listeners in a blind test, myself included. Same speaker? No way! The difference is one of the more dramatic I have heard simply by applying Dirac Live.

In fact, I realized, the S60 had completely disappeared, like a magic trick! Impressive! The SS had grown but still had little depth. But what was there was spacious and open, with improved precision and image clarity..

Optimum position, no Dirac Live

Some of the tonality issues had returned, although the muddiness was only slight on the worst of those resonant notes. Other than an occasionally, the presentation was now quite clean, the SS was very wide and had some depth and good depth acuity. Images were only somewhat sharper on Roscoe, but the depth acuity on those voices was distinctive. Cindy’s vocal on Shame was also a little sharper than before, with a disproportionate - but welcome - improvement in depth acuity.

The soundstage was actually quite fun. I especially noticed on Roscoe, with the distance to each of those voices pegged before me in the air. The overall sound was a tad raw, but in this case it had the effect of enlivening the soundstage.

Optimum position, with Dirac Live

Soundstage depth and depth acuity were further improved, IC in general was sharper and clearer. Tonality was finally right on, even the required tinkle was present. SS was very wide and had decent depth.

The Polk Signature S60 performed very well for us. I even found myself rooting for them. With image clarity a little sharper and more SS depth, they would be awesome speakers indeed. The real surprise, however, was how well they sounded close to the wall with Dirac Live on. Even though some SS&I qualities were not at their best, the S60 did a complete disappearing act in the soundstage, and that is not an easy thing to pull off. Where a “close-to-the-wall” solution has been mandated, and room correction is on the menu (DL specifically), the S60 should be considered.

Polk Signature S60 At Wall With And Without Dirac, 10 DB Offset.


Polk Signature S60 Out From Wall With And Without Dirac, 10 DB Offset.

Rouzbeh

Thanks a lot WLDoc, that article you posted is amazing, I’m going to test with Dirac Live as son as I come back home. I can hear that boost that have been shown on the frequency response chart..that must be it.

pitdogg2

audioluvr wrote: »

Well this one comes to mind.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_958MAC7200/McIntosh-MAC7200.html

Not helpful
Times like this I really miss Mr.Grand

Tama

Greeting’s TO ALL, this question to scenario was directed to Halo specifically because he was in this situation back in July 2018, but anyone can give insight, and appreciated. Joined this forum just to ask it, I have been looking at the LSIM 705’s for the last 2-3 months since they went on sale half off. I have been reading threads all over different place from when they first came on the market, as well as probably all you-tube videos available. I find that most people find these “warm”, “dark”, or they try to play them up, and refer to them as “balanced”, maybe they say that because they are not very "Twinkle" - treble or almost Flat, break in period and they will sound FANTASTIC? , warm – dark “not my preference”, so called mismatched crossovers?, need to turn them up to shine, need lots of power – low sensitivity 89db, there seem to be more cons than pros, which leads me into the second part, so I started looking at the signature series s60’s. Now of course they are two very different speakers, two Classes - I have the s35 center, and 2 HTS 10 Subwoofers powered by their own amp, I prefer listening to music that has pronounced Drums, Brass, like Steely Dan, and Chicago to name a few, I watch TV as well with the surround, and don’t want to have to turn these things up just to hear them, not to mention night time listening. At the price that these are at, the market opens up to speakers like SVS Prime-Pinnacle-Speaker- the only problem with buying a different brand is people say your center will be off “tembre” – did I spell that right. Anyways from your last threads the 705’s were in their break-in period, are they really all that or not so much – S60’s right out of the box were fine, and I think the sensitivity is 90-91, currently I have a pair of the Polk Studio Monitor 12 series II, an Pioneer AVR VSX-53 100X7, that is Bi-amped with an Onkyo M504 165X2 @8ohm, does anyone have an opinion? I was also going to upgrade the surrounds to the S20, but someone suggested not to, use the S10’s they won’t be so over powering? maybe I should buy both and put the one I don't like in the garage for football games - just kidding thanks Tama

Joey_V

This to me sounds like a room issue, not a speaker issue.

Bass is typically a function of your seat position relative to the room.

Speaker imaging midrange and clarity is typically a function of speaker positioning.

Try this, sit forward a couple feet and then backwards a couple feet from your seated position and see if the bass issue is ameliorated.

F1nut

Tama wrote: »

Greeting’s TO ALL, this question to scenario was directed to Halo specifically because he was in this situation back in July 2018, but anyone can give insight, and appreciated. Joined this forum just to ask it, I have been looking at the LSIM 705’s for the last 2-3 months since they went on sale half off. I have been reading threads all over different place from when they first came on the market, as well as probably all you-tube videos available. I find that most people find these “warm”, “dark”, or they try to play them up, and refer to them as “balanced”, maybe they say that because they are not very "Twinkle" - treble or almost Flat, break in period and they will sound FANTASTIC? , warm – dark “not my preference”, so called mismatched crossovers?, need to turn them up to shine, need lots of power – low sensitivity 89db, there seem to be more cons than pros, which leads me into the second part, so I started looking at the signature series s60’s. Now of course they are two very different speakers, two Classes - I have the s35 center, and 2 HTS 10 Subwoofers powered by their own amp, I prefer listening to music that has pronounced Drums, Brass, like Steely Dan, and Chicago to name a few, I watch TV as well with the surround, and don’t want to have to turn these things up just to hear them, not to mention night time listening. At the price that these are at, the market opens up to speakers like SVS Prime-Pinnacle-Speaker- the only problem with buying a different brand is people say your center will be off “tembre” – did I spell that right. Anyways from your last threads the 705’s were in their break-in period, are they really all that or not so much – S60’s right out of the box were fine, and I think the sensitivity is 90-91, currently I have a pair of the Polk Studio Monitor 12 series II, an Pioneer AVR VSX-53 100X7, that is Bi-amped with an Onkyo M504 165X2 @8ohm, does anyone have an opinion? I was also going to upgrade the surrounds to the S20, but someone suggested not to, use the S10’s they won’t be so over powering? maybe I should buy both and put the one I don't like in the garage for football games - just kidding thanks Tama

Since you have the S35 center you should either get the S60's or get the LSiM705's and one of the LSiM center channels. It is imperative than the front 3 speakers are timbre matched. For the surrounds you can use whatever as they produce mostly ambient sound. The bit about the S20 overpowering is BS as you adjust the dB levels through the AVR's calibration program. You could use towers as surrounds if you wanted. As for bi-amping, you're not. Bi-amping requires separate power amps, level matched and the use of active crossovers. Anything else is ghetto bi-amping.

Push come to shove, the LSiM is the far better speaker and yes, it is balanced. If you like ice picks in your ears they are not the speakers for you.

Tama

Thank you for the quick reply Sir F1Nut, understood - of your comments, let me ask this, I have the M504 plugged into the AVR to power the 2 front speakers, maybe Bi-amp is the wrong choice of words, but the intent was to power the fronts with the 165w instead of the 100w AVR, when you say "Ghetto", are you referring to loss of XYZ, or just not the "best" way of doing things, my intent overall was to give the fronts cleaner stronger power than what the AVR can do, the way it's set up is the AVR only has to power the center and surrounds - your opinion please would be appreciated - thanks

pitdogg2

Most incorrectly assume that they are "bi-amping" using two channels fed into another on a receiver. You are only using the power amp on those two so yes wrong choice of words. You are using a power amp to supply power to those two and that leaves less stress on the receiver to supply a little more power to other channels.

Tama

thanks pitdogg2 for the clarification, do you have any insight on the lsiM 705's, I think I would like them, I do prefer a little brightness, not enough to buy Klipsch - they appear to be more of a directional - limited sweet spot soundstage, so the Polk's seem better in that regard, since I have not heard them, I'm concerned they will be too warm in comparison to something else, Halo seemed to like the S60's, and was working on the 705's to open up, someone else stated after 100 hours it was like turning on the light switch, and all was soooo nice,,,I think Halo said the sound stage was wider for the S60's - lot's to consider, appreciate your response. Also I'm sure the Onkyo M504 165X2 will be plenty of power for the 705's ?

pitdogg2

I've not used either speakers. I'd trust @halo's ears

Tama

I think I'll get the S60's for the front, and the S55's for the rear, since I already have the S35, and HTS 10 X 2,,,,all in all that will be a nice all around set up for what I need. thanks for all the advice Sir

F1nut

Tama wrote: »

Thank you for the quick reply Sir F1Nut, understood - of your comments, let me ask this, I have the M504 plugged into the AVR to power the 2 front speakers, maybe Bi-amp is the wrong choice of words, but the intent was to power the fronts with the 165w instead of the 100w AVR, when you say "Ghetto", are you referring to loss of XYZ, or just not the "best" way of doing things, my intent overall was to give the fronts cleaner stronger power than what the AVR can do, the way it's set up is the AVR only has to power the center and surrounds - your opinion please would be appreciated - thanks

Bi-amp was indeed the wrong term. You have simply added a separate power amplifier to drive your L & R speakers bypassing the AVR's internal amp channels for the two speakers.

Clipdat

Tama wrote: »

I think I'll get the S60's for the front, and the S55's for the rear, since I already have the S35, and HTS 10 X 2,,,,all in all that will be a nice all around set up for what I need. thanks for all the advice Sir

Why S55 for the rear? Seems like overkill. I'd go S15 for rear/side surrounds.