Bookie shootout and the coolest remote holder ever!

F1nut

We had a little fun today/tonight comparing the Polk L200, Polk LSi9 (modded), KEF LS50 and the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR (modded). Each presented a different sound signature with each having their strengths and weaknesses, which was also dependent on the type of music playing. IMO, it's impossible to call one better than the other. Tony or Scott may have a different opinion. I will say that the little KEF is surprisingly heavy and may have the most inert cabinet I've ever rapped my knuckles on.


The remote holder....well, it doesn't get any cooler.

Nightfall

6 connecting rods? And you call yourself a red blooded American.

xschop

Looks like fun. If you could only keep one set, which would it be?

mhardy6647

That is a cool array of loudspeakers to compare -- you'd be the envy of ASR, doin' that. Hey, you could post a review over there (sans Spinorama, of course)

Too bad you didn't have a pair of PE B652-AIR, too. You know, just to anchor one end of the curve.

DSC_0611 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Guess youse guyses needed a piston ash tray, though.


Oh, one other on-topic musing: Any of youse guyses encountered the new and improved LS50-MAT (with metamaterial technology)

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-kef-ls50-collection-with-new-metamaterial-absorption-technology-mat-coming.16133/

gudnoyez

I have heard those Kef LS50's a few times I would like to have a pair.

Mikey081057

I have owned 2 of those; a modded set of LSi9's (past) and the LS50's (current). I liked both but find the LS50's a bit more to my liking/taste. I found the LSi9's to be a bit tougher to place with their depth and to be a bit bulkier for a bookie while the LS50's are actually quite compact comparatively. I have a set of Usher Mini X Dancers that IMHO are the nicest bookies I have ever experienced but they are like 3X the price. The diamond tweeters are well worth it tho and the cabinets and stands are beautifully crafted.

tonyb

Bookie shootouts aren't complete without some observations. Details gents...

joecoulson

Looking forward to the strength/weaknesses overview.

VR3

Have to say jesse, i hoped you would have positioned them better for listening tests.

Skewed results! Fake news! 😜

DaveHo

Have owned two of the four. Must say, even stock form, those pioneers sound rediculously good for the cash. #1 son uses them now.

TopperDude

whoah what a fun way to spend the afternoon .

F1 - give us your thoughts on each one

F1nut

Jeez...ok

All 4 played on the same Parasound Halo gear with a Rotel CDP. The same song for each and the volume level differences adjusted by ear because we're good. No subs for the first go round.

Pioneer - crossovers modified, not sure with what. Laid back top end, tight mid bass gives the illusion of more bass than there actually is. It's a budget speaker that's easy to listen to, but it's not hifi.
Personal experience: Fully modded with the upgraded Vifa tweeter and a full tilt crossover upgrade they become way better than stock. The Vifa brings them to life, but still......

LSi9 - crossovers modified, Sonicap for the tweeter, Dayton or Solen for the rest I believe. Much better top end, excellent clarity without being bright. Mid bass was wooly to use Scott's description making for a thick sound. I was a bit surprised by the sound as I had previously heard a pair elsewhere on different gear and music that sounded wonderful.

L200 - like the LSi9, the tweeter is really nice giving the speakers excellent clarity without being bright. Much tighter mid bass. Super wide and cohesive sound stage/imaging. I think it's safe to say we all liked them, but agreed there's some stiff competition at their price point. None of us like the Polk logo and thought the looks of the cabinet didn't fit the price.

KEF LS50 - interesting speaker, very inert and very heavy cabinet with a soft rubbery port. A bit less clarity than the two Polks, but more than the Pioneer. Mid bass was tight, but man that bass drops off like a lead weight. A sub is a must. A completely different look than most bookies and no grills. These are not rock and roll speakers, but play some less complex music and they ain't half bad.

Later on we added a pair of subs to the mix, but only played the LSi9 and KEF with them. I'd say that helped the KEF the most, still not a rock and roll speaker though.

So, the winner is Tony's modded SDA SRS 2.3's. There's no replacement for displacement.

F1nut

gudnoyez wrote: »

I have heard those Kef LS50's a few times I would like to have a pair.

Talk to MillerLiteScott, his are for sale.

F1nut

Nightfall wrote: »

6 connecting rods? And you call yourself a red blooded American.

They're out of a Porsche engine, the block was part of the coffee table. I don't know many American guys that wouldn't want them.

Guess youse guyses needed a piston ash tray, though.

No piston ashtray needed, non-smokers.

nooshinjohn

Remote holder.... I thought there might be some heavenly cleavage involved there.

joecoulson

Thank You Jesse

Vette C6.r

That was a good time. Glad we had 4 sets. Just enough to do a real compare and contrast.

halo

Thanks for the contrast and comparison. It’s always fun, especially with friends

F1nut

Vette C6.r wrote: »

That was a good time. Glad we had 4 sets. Just enough to do a real compare and contrast.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

Joey_V

Good to hear about the legend l200, something I’m looking at next

PSOVLSK

I’ve also owned two of the four. Currently have modded Pioneers that I bought from Jesse and I once had a pair of LSi9’s. I think they were modded, but I can’t remember for sure.

I easily preferred the 9’s over the Pioneer’s, but that’s really unfair based on the equipment I used with each and more importantly the room/setup with each speaker.

Thanks for posting your thoughts Jesse. I hope Tony and Scott share their opinions as well. These are my favorite types of threads.

Oh yeah...cool remote holder.

F1nut

Paul, rest assured your Pioneers are way better than stock....WAY!

Vette C6.r

F1nut wrote: »

Vette C6.r wrote: »

That was a good time. Glad we had 4 sets. Just enough to do a real compare and contrast.

Feel free to add your thoughts.

You were pretty spot on as usual.

Only thing I'd add is how much the Pioneer's impress me. That 4" ? driver always punches above it's weight. Realizing that they are mooded but when I went upstairs to order the food I couldn't believe it was just them and not additional subs.

Also it's always good to hear that the LSi9's can still hold up to modern speakers. They aren't prefect but if you can pick them up for the price I got them for they are a no brainer.



Jesse and Scott also noticed a leak down issue on my 2.3's that I hope to get to soon. They were always a bit bass shy and that would sure explain alot of it.

Still love listening to them after all these years.

ZLTFUL

Vette C6.r wrote: »

Jesse and Scott also noticed a leak down issue on my 2.3's that I hope to get to soon. They were always a bit bass shy and that would sure explain alot of it.

When I was rebuilding the 2.3TLs I ultimately sold to @gudnoyez I found a large gap in the "inner" cabinet in both top back corners of both cabinets. There was maybe 1/8" inch and it ended up being the single biggest issue with the bass on those particular speakers.
I used Loctite Power Grab, pressed into those gaps and then clamped up the tops of the cabinets to true everything up while the Loctite dried.

Before that, the passive radiator push test would yield a fairly rapid return to "rest" for the woofers of about 1.5-2 sconds.
After the repair, they would take 10+ seconds to return to rest.

Sorry to get off topic of the thread but just wanted to back up what Jesse and Scott noticed with personal experience from a similar issue.

Vette C6.r

The def sounds like something to look into. I know my passive gasket has seen better days but I have Larry's rings so I doubt it was solely cause the issue.

10+ seconds sounds more like it.

F1nut

10 seconds is an extremely long time. 4 to 5 seconds is the most I've seen.

pitdogg2

It's hard to get extended time like Ryan got with the MW6510's their dust cap is a more open mesh than say the MW6600/MW6501 which had a felt dust caps.

I've used armacell pipe wrap with good results. I was lucky enough to get in on the gasket buy from Mike @brgman yrs. back. When I rehabbed my 2.3tl's I sealed everything real good, Larry's rings, new gaskets on tweeters and MW's and armacell on the passives. I get maybe 5 seconds on mine.

gudnoyez

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Vette C6.r wrote: »

Jesse and Scott also noticed a leak down issue on my 2.3's that I hope to get to soon. They were always a bit bass shy and that would sure explain alot of it.

When I was rebuilding the 2.3TLs I ultimately sold to @gudnoyez I found a large gap in the "inner" cabinet in both top back corners of both cabinets. There was maybe 1/8" inch and it ended up being the single biggest issue with the bass on those particular speakers.
I used Loctite Power Grab, pressed into those gaps and then clamped up the tops of the cabinets to true everything up while the Loctite dried.

Before that, the passive radiator push test would yield a fairly rapid return to "rest" for the woofers of about 1.5-2 sconds.
After the repair, they would take 10+ seconds to return to rest.

Sorry to get off topic of the thread but just wanted to back up what Jesse and Scott noticed with personal experience from a similar issue.

Those 2.3tls can shake the pictures off the wall in the next room if need be, its happened a time or two.

MillerLiteScott

I want to thank Tony again for having us over to his house. He lives way out in the COUNTRY. We had great time hanging out and listening to some music and gear. We started off with Tony's upstairs home theater which was the best I have ever heard and felt.

Then we went into his basement which is unbelievable. It has so much going on I can not even begin to describe. We unboxed all the speakers looking them all over and noting all the differences between them.

We started with the Pioneer's by Andrew Jones. I paid $79 for them and just replaced the existing crossover components with 1% Dayton caps and some mills resistors. They surprised all of us with the amount of bass they can produce with that tiny 4" driver. They are a great speaker for a someone to start a budget system that punches above its weight. The tweeter is the weak link with this speaker but it is still a very capable and pleasant speaker to listen to for extended periods of time.

Modded LSi 9's. My first time listening to a pair. I always wanted to hear a pair and have been looking for a pair on the used market. The first thing you notice is how much better the tweeter is than the Pioneer's. The other thing you notice is the mid bass is boosted which made them sound wooly compared to the Pioneer's. It is also a very nice speaker to listen to and it could have been the set up or room, the room is huge.

Polk Audio L 200's. Again another speaker I have been looking forward to listening to. Instantly you notice the familiar sound of the tweeter compared with the LSi 9's. The bass was tighter and more defined than the LSi 9's. They also had a very large ( the largest of the 4) soundstage which was noticeable. I would have liked to spend a little more time with the L 200 because it is a very nice sounding speaker.

KEF LS 50's. Here is the backstory of the KEF LS 50's. I bought these at the beginning of COVID. My main system is in our basement which is open to the rest of the house. Since my family was always home and I could not really listen to my main system. I bought the KEFs' and an integrated to use in a room that we were converting to a closet that got put on hold due to COVID. I have always been fascinated by concentric drivers and wanted to hear the LS 50's. The soon to be closet is a 12X15 room that could be closed off to the rest of the house by 3 doors, perfect for a COVID listening room. This is the size room these speakers were design to be used in. They sounded pretty darn good in the bedroom sized room. They do have a different sound to the rest of the speakers. I personally think they are more analytical but in a good way. In the small room they have bass that carries weight for such a small speaker but in a large basement like Tony's the bass drops off steeply below the 50's. I believe the bass is very tight and fast and not boosted like the Pioneer's or LSi 9's. I also have a large basement and have the same result. They respond well to adding subs. Their clarity and a good sub make for a good pair. Like Jesse said they are not a rock speaker. They are more of a singer songwriter, jazz, folk speaker. We left the KEF's and subs on while we ate some dinner at a table behind the listening position and I thought they sounded really good.

All in all it was a fun night and cool to listen to the different speakers. Tony is a great host. Sorry most of our observations were bass and treble characteristics. We just did not have the time to meaningfully evaluate mid range qualities, soundstage and imaging. Personally I would have needed weeks to evaluate all the characteristics all four speakers.

I really enjoy playing around with the different types of speakers, but I enjoy SDA's even more.

I would encourage get togethers with other audio nuts once we all return to less restricted society.

MLS

skrol

Sorry I missed it. I look forward to another gathering. I have a few odd ball speakers that I'd like to throw into the mix.

Hansvelton

The LS 50 were possibly the biggest let down speaker wise for me ever.

There were not horrible, not in the slightest, but the reviews made them out to be Far better than the reality. Lacking in bass and a prominent boost in the midrange make them appear at first to be more revealing, but over time, they get tiring.

I felt wrong letting them go after only a few months, but was apparent they were simply voiced not to my liking.

Found the Lsi9 less analytical sounding and much better long term. Maybe not the final word on any one aspect of sound, but so good overall and so listenable.

Would love to hear the L200 compared to the Lsi9

@F1nut great comparison. Loved reading your comments. Keep up the great work!