Another power cable thread
Clipdat
Posts: 12,934
I am currently in the process of upgrading all of the power cables in my system.
I was previously using all Shunyata Venom 14 cords. From the wall outlet to my Audioquest Niagara 1200, and then from the 1200 to my integrated amplifier (Norma Audio IPA-140) and on all of my digital sources. (Marantz SA-KI Ruby, Auralic Vega G1, Aurender A100, etc)
Part of this upgrade process involves trading in all of my Shunyata cables toward my new cables which are hopefully arriving soon. Since I had to ship the Shunyata cables back today, I hooked up the power conditioner to wall, as well as the power conditioner to integrated using generic 14ga black power cables. I used a generic 18ga black power cable on the Vega G1.
I powered up the system and did some listening.
The first thing I noticed is that it sounded like the soundstage had collapsed and shrunk down into a small area directly between the two speakers. It was flat, shallow, and two dimensional.
Next, I noticed the basslines were more jumbled up with the rest of the musical elements. Previously, the bass was it's own disparate element with clear definition. Additionally, the quantity of bass seemed anemic and lacking. When I turned up the volume try to get more bass energy, the highs started getting harsh and overpowering. Previously in the days leading up to this experiment, the highs were not harsh whatsoever.
Something I noticed last week when I put my new Vega G1 into my system, is how impeccable the timing was. It's built-in master clock is the real deal and it gave any song I played an incredible sense of "flawlessness." The timing still sounded pretty good when streaming Tidal through the G1, but it didn't give me that "OMG the timing is PERFECT!" sensation that I got each and every time I had listened to the G1 previously.
In general, the various sounds inside each song were more mixed together and overlapped, as opposed to each one standing out and having it's own space. Everything just sounds homogenized and more blurred together.
All that being said, it's not like the system sounded "god awful" or anything, but it is also distinctly not as enjoyable as it was previously. So, clearly the Shunyata cables were having quite a positive impact overall on my system. No surprise there, since I logged each change they made as I originally had put them into my system one by one. But removing them all at once was much more dramatic.
Overall, it was an interesting experiment. I will listen to the system again tomorrow to see if it echoes what I heard tonight.
It got me thinking about some more general power-cable related things and how people in our hobby approach this sometimes taboo topic.
One could say that by using the stock power cord that is included with a component, you actually aren't truly hearing what that component is capable of. I think this is something that a lot of people are bothered by and refuse to accept. People don't want to think that they "need" to spend more money on top of what they've already spent on the component in order to hear what it's capable of. It's easier to just say "I don't believe in power cords!"
Again, it's worth reiterating that it's not like the system's performance with the generic power cables was "terrible" by any means. But, for enthusiasts like us who have extremely high standards for our systems and have heard just how good they can sound with nicer cabling, stock power cords are simply not an option.
Lastly, it's very possible that some music lovers and audiophiles just don't have as good of ears as they think they have, and are not able to physically hear the differences a nicer power cable can bring to their system. So in that case, then certainly save some money and stick with the stock cables if you aren't going to be able to pick up on the changes. But, at least try them before deciding that they aren't for you.
Has anyone else ever tried going from all aftermarket power cables, back to all generic power cables like this?
I was previously using all Shunyata Venom 14 cords. From the wall outlet to my Audioquest Niagara 1200, and then from the 1200 to my integrated amplifier (Norma Audio IPA-140) and on all of my digital sources. (Marantz SA-KI Ruby, Auralic Vega G1, Aurender A100, etc)
Part of this upgrade process involves trading in all of my Shunyata cables toward my new cables which are hopefully arriving soon. Since I had to ship the Shunyata cables back today, I hooked up the power conditioner to wall, as well as the power conditioner to integrated using generic 14ga black power cables. I used a generic 18ga black power cable on the Vega G1.
I powered up the system and did some listening.
The first thing I noticed is that it sounded like the soundstage had collapsed and shrunk down into a small area directly between the two speakers. It was flat, shallow, and two dimensional.
Next, I noticed the basslines were more jumbled up with the rest of the musical elements. Previously, the bass was it's own disparate element with clear definition. Additionally, the quantity of bass seemed anemic and lacking. When I turned up the volume try to get more bass energy, the highs started getting harsh and overpowering. Previously in the days leading up to this experiment, the highs were not harsh whatsoever.
Something I noticed last week when I put my new Vega G1 into my system, is how impeccable the timing was. It's built-in master clock is the real deal and it gave any song I played an incredible sense of "flawlessness." The timing still sounded pretty good when streaming Tidal through the G1, but it didn't give me that "OMG the timing is PERFECT!" sensation that I got each and every time I had listened to the G1 previously.
In general, the various sounds inside each song were more mixed together and overlapped, as opposed to each one standing out and having it's own space. Everything just sounds homogenized and more blurred together.
All that being said, it's not like the system sounded "god awful" or anything, but it is also distinctly not as enjoyable as it was previously. So, clearly the Shunyata cables were having quite a positive impact overall on my system. No surprise there, since I logged each change they made as I originally had put them into my system one by one. But removing them all at once was much more dramatic.
Overall, it was an interesting experiment. I will listen to the system again tomorrow to see if it echoes what I heard tonight.
It got me thinking about some more general power-cable related things and how people in our hobby approach this sometimes taboo topic.
One could say that by using the stock power cord that is included with a component, you actually aren't truly hearing what that component is capable of. I think this is something that a lot of people are bothered by and refuse to accept. People don't want to think that they "need" to spend more money on top of what they've already spent on the component in order to hear what it's capable of. It's easier to just say "I don't believe in power cords!"
Again, it's worth reiterating that it's not like the system's performance with the generic power cables was "terrible" by any means. But, for enthusiasts like us who have extremely high standards for our systems and have heard just how good they can sound with nicer cabling, stock power cords are simply not an option.
Lastly, it's very possible that some music lovers and audiophiles just don't have as good of ears as they think they have, and are not able to physically hear the differences a nicer power cable can bring to their system. So in that case, then certainly save some money and stick with the stock cables if you aren't going to be able to pick up on the changes. But, at least try them before deciding that they aren't for you.
Has anyone else ever tried going from all aftermarket power cables, back to all generic power cables like this?
Comments
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Going from the Wireworld stratus to the AQ monsoon on my pre showed gains.
I used stock cables back on various pieces in 2018 as I was acquiring upgrades and the gains were very apparent when aftermarket cords were used.
No secret that I am a believer in good power and good cable. For me, I can hear the difference. My goal is to acquire all of the Storm series for my 2ch setup.
But I fear this thread will bring out the pointless debate from naysayers Who spend more time recalling blind tests and measurements than actually trying a PC themselves. Maybe I’m wrong, but we’ll see.Post edited by joecoulson on -
joecoulson wrote: »Going from the Wireworld stratus to the AQ monsoon on my pre showed gains.
I used stock cables back on various pieces in 2018 as I was acquiring upgrades and the gains were very apparent when aftermarket cords were used.
No secret that I am a believer in good power and good cable. For me, I can hear the difference. My goal is to acquire all of the Storm series for my 2ch setup.
But I fear this thread will bring out the pointless debate from naysayers Who spend more time recalling blind tests and measurements than actually trying a PC themselves. Maybe I’m wrong, but we’ll see.
^^^^ you left out expectation bias... LOL
See, I like reading threads like this. The OP is reporting on changes HE heard in HIS setup. I will be interested in what he thinks the new cables bring to the equation too.
So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
Drew, are you trying a different brand of cable or just going up the Shunyata line?
Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's. -
I'm fairly new to the home audio scene and even with not so great hearing and not using high dollar cables I can tell a difference from the stock cables and upgraded cables.Yamaha RX-A2070, Musical Fidelity M6si integrated amp, Benchmark Dac1, Bluesound NODE 2i, Audiolab 6000CDT CD Transport, Parasound Zphono USB Phono Preamp, Fluance RT85, Ortofon 2M Bronze, Polk L600's, L400, L900's, RC80i's, SVS 3000 Micro, Audioquest Interconnects and Digital Cables, Nordost Silver Shadow Digital Cable, Cullen Gold and Crossover Series Power Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 12AWG OCC Speaker Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha Analog Interconnect Cables, Douglas Connection Alpha 11 OCC Custom Power Cable, Signal Power Cable, Furman PL-8C 15 Power Conditioner, Sony 65" 900F, Sony UBP-X700, Fios, Apple TV 4K, Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables.
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Drew, are you trying a different brand of cable or just going up the Shunyata line?
Different brand. -
No, haven't gone backward to cheap, throw away, stock power cords. Only up to the previous top of the line Shunyata power cables. I have come to the conclusion that power is the foundation for a system. The better the foundation then the better any gear on it will sound.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
^exactly
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Random question that I've wondered about, but never tested. How do people feel about power that doesn't directly tie into the audio production - specifically the power for the motor on a belt drive turntable?
Technically only mechanical noise would be entering the system, and I can think of theoretical elements to support upgrading that cable as well.Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
^Good question. I have often thought about, but never got around to, putting an IEC socket on my turntable to test that one.
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Those 12v or 24v power plugs have to produce noise. Even if it’s backwards into the power line.
Next on my list will be a turntable upgrade and would like the upgraded iec power for it and the phono -
I cut off the power cord on my 75" Sony Z9D TV, and spliced in an IEC power socket. I then used an unused Shunyata power cord, and was surprised at the improvement to the picture. Clearer detail and better color was obvious.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I cut off the power cord on my 75" Sony Z9D TV, and spliced in an IEC power socket. I then used an unused Shunyata power cord, and was surprised at the improvement to the picture. Clearer detail and better color was obvious.
Not sure I would go so far, especially if the TV is still under warranty? But I was surprised to discover my 2019 75" Samsung 4k had a non-detachable power cord, whereas my 11 y.o. Samsung LED DLP set had an IEC socket, and I used a Signal Cable Magic Power cable with better results. Go figure.
So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
Wow, now that is interesting! I am not much of a videophile, but it seems like clearer detail and better colors would be even easier to pick up on versus audible changes.
Chopping the cable and soldering on an IEC inlet just to be able to use a detachable power cable and then getting improvement from it seems to defy all "logic", but if it works it works! -
Let me retract my post about cutting off the power cord on my 75" TV. I did that on the previous 65" TV. The current 75" TV is plugged into a Shunyata power conditioner. Sorry, I sometimes get confused after my stroke two years ago.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
All good. The point remains that you were able to immediately see a visual difference.
@joecoulson Has also mentioned similar going to nicer HDMI cables and when he plugged his TV into his AQ Niagara 5000. Fascinating stuff. -
joecoulson wrote: »Going from the Wireworld stratus to the AQ monsoon on my pre showed gains..
Awww man! And I just bought your reject?Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Another naysayer favorite, there are miles and miles of power lines coming to your house, so how could the last 6 feet make a difference?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
joecoulson wrote: »Going from the Wireworld stratus to the AQ monsoon on my pre showed gains..
Awww man! And I just bought your reject?
$80 vs $400 dude. -
Another naysayer favorite, there are miles and miles of power lines coming to your house, so how could the last 6 feet make a difference?
At first I thought your were on the naysayer bandwagon. I was about to tear into you Jesse.
Then I reread and had some water. I’m good now. -
Stay hydrated Joe, for your health.
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Another naysayer favorite, there are miles and miles of power lines coming to your house, so how could the last 6 feet make a difference?
It cancels out the bad vibes with magic fairly dust silly!Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
Let me retract my post about cutting off the power cord on my 75" TV. I did that on the previous 65" TV. The current 75" TV is plugged into a Shunyata power conditioner. Sorry, I sometimes get confused after my stroke two years ago.
I did this in May 2013. No wonder I got confused. Time flies.
Before
After
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
That to me looks like a rear projection TV, that is also a pangea cord...
just busting your chops Bud
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Another naysayer favorite, there are miles and miles of power lines coming to your house, so how could the last 6 feet make a difference?
They also say as long as the guage is the proper size that's all you need, or I tried an aftermarket power cord that was $75 on my AVR. -
I think the biggest misnomer for me is your upgrades are only as good as your weakest link.
If you add an upgraded cord to an AVR, most likely you will not hear huge gains.
Whereas if you have a very resolving system from outlet to speaker, any change In the connection should present Downstream results. -
Another naysayer favorite, there are miles and miles of power lines coming to your house, so how could the last 6 feet make a difference?
Similar to the argument of "Why use nice speaker cables, when the wiring inside the speakers is usually 18ga zip cord" - yet I'm sure every single active poster on this forum has heard improvements with nicer speaker cables, even without upgrading their speaker's internal wiring. -
@Clipdat
Yes. From stock to Audioquest Wel power cords throughout. Good upgrade for sure. Makes an average unit sound above average.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Joey I am surprised you have yet to try the Niagara. It would (guaranteed) blow away what you are using.
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Before I say this... I am definitely a cable believer. I use AudioQuest Forest interconnects, and BJC speaker cables.
I've never had much success with power cables if I'm honest. I tried some Pangea from my friend with my Martin Logan's, my NAD C352, and my Marantz CD6004, And I never really noticed anything that stood out through the plethora of CDs that I played, whether blind, double blind, or aware of the changes. My gear or hearing may just not be up to snuff. But anyway, that's why you won't see aftermarket power cables behind my system. My friend Jace feels the same way.
Glad you guys are having different results though! I will probably give them a shot in the future, when my stereo is a few levels higher. -
joecoulson wrote: »Joey I am surprised you have yet to try the Niagara. It would (guaranteed) blow away what you are using.
He hasn't bought it yet because it's not expensive enough.
