Rings,Don't have to be Larry's,similar would be nice.

245

Comments

  • I have only really heard of anodizing aluminum and titanium. Anodized steel would be rust.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,501
    Parkerized steel or powder-coated steel more likely.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • Dr_Wu
    Dr_Wu Posts: 298
    Sorry, powder coated.
  • I had to powder coat all i have installed as the thought of rust on them into the future really wouldn't let me sleep :# !10 years from now ,the powder coat might be sprinkled over everything all the way to the bottom of the cabinet improving the fluid coupling lol

    Can Larry's rings really be improved from?
    What will they be called " _ _ _ _ _ _ " L2 rings ? B)

    I cant beleive no one has at least kept one of Larry's 1.2 PR templates!



  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,501
    edited September 2020
    It's usually the penny-pinching bean counters that don't even understand a process or function that make that statement.

    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • Wondering if anyone ever wound up making any new rings. I'd love a set for my 3.1TLs
  • Rings?
    Somebody still needs rings?
    I wandered onto this thread because I am preparing to make a few for my needs.
    Someone mentioned the need for an "top-shelf" type of ring made from an "exotic" would be best?
    Aluminum is not a good choice for these and steel? "Problematical" I think. (At least for me)!
    How about a solid, pure "Micro-grain carbide"? I use, "Cryo-treating"- to align the grain and even out the particle density throughout. And then apply "Titanium Nitride" coating them at a final thickness of "8-12" microns. That should work. They would be "gold" colored then of course. But I could make that a shiny OR a dull, "satin" gold color. OR, I could use another coating to fully encapsulate the ring as needed. For an aesthetically pleasing finish.
    But then another person mentioned that it might be best to use a primary material having mechanical properties which should include, (A very low, "Volumetric to rigidity" ratio) and that would probably work best.
    Unless you wish to get, "Really Exotic" as far as the materials go. You might want to try simply a magnesium "investment casting". I can then turn it to size. Then finish grind to spec, "Cylindrical and then flat grinding in that order to finish the ring to specified tolerances". This will prevent any possibility of any structural "lobing" issues in the parts future use. "Which is a secondary factor affecting the deformation of the transducing devices {wave launch/guide} area". Then again, if none of the tolerances are really that critical,
    (+ < .00015", - < 0.00005", or better).
    Then I could just, "Wire EDM" the entire thing in one shot!
    For mine? I am not too worried about the amount of volume it takes up.
    So, I think I am going to just go simple. I am just going to make a two-part form nearly to size with installed low pressure vacuum ports. And then hand lay-up some carbon fiber around a phenolic core. Add some .004", "Kevlar" fibers I have laying around at about (20%) of the mix to "toughen it up". And also add some very pure, "Stabilized Cu" in a powdered form which will help to keep continuity with the "Faraday" shielding/cage which I always like to do around the transduction array, "As a whole". With the shield components physically as well as "Magnetically coupled". /\ As far as the mechanical properties of materials will allow.
    (Any "Faraday effect" is always better than NO "Faraday effect")!
    And then I stabilize the "rings" entire system using a "System Three" structural, two-part epoxy. Which I can then "Post cure", by "Heat Treating" the rings. That specific mix that I use is, "Silvertip". Along with their fastest hardener! So it is tricky to use sometimes and also a bit expensive.
    But, after all of that? It finishes out in the "Rockwell", "C" scale at (80-82).
    Then finally I use a new type of Poly, with a "Molecular cross-linker" enhanced top-coat. Withg "). From the same company.
    This stuff is "Ludicrously" tough....
    Now say that last sentence really fast, three times in a row!
    S.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,472
    Where can I get some of the drugs that you're on?
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,602
    I don't want whatever he's on.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,501
    You will have violated every rule of the KISS method. No judgement here.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • What is the problem?
    S.
  • The, "KISS" comment I understand. But I spent many years learning to design/make/build parts and also entire systems. Many of these needed to be able to not only handle, "known" problems but also unforeseen problems with very expensive consequences if they failed. Many times this was going to happen in a "hard vacuum" or under very extreme pressures in their given working environments. As in, "space".
    So "yes", I may do things a bit differently than others. But I've never had a complaint with the results..
    At least not when I was doing this type of work for my "Hobby".😊
    But I can take the hint. I'll just take my toys and go play elsewhere.
    Not a problem.
    S.
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,501
    You shouldn't let no-face keyboarders stop your grind. I for one would enjoy watching your project come to fruition.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • The way to do things for hobby enjoyment (or no holds barred space/aerospace) and the way to do things to practically produce an effective enough product that will actually get to the masses are two different things. Don't go away and lets see what you come up with!
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,472
    Wow, thin skin and no sense of humor.
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,880
    edited February 2021
    Has to be the same dude on audio circle talking about a new speaker he built but then disappeared. Writing style is uncanny

    I'm thinking delrin rings with binding post could be fun,
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • Yep that has to be our man.......line array omnidirectional speaker system carrot dangle. I can see the graphite fiber layed up rings being a cool experiment but no mention made of the need for threaded inserts and I can't see the need for a polyurethane finish with crosslinker additive for something that is going to be tucked away on the inside of a speaker. But having said all that post your project and show us some pictures.....should be fun.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,501
    Back before I made a few billet-faced 5Jrs, I was going to make these on the lathe... Would stomp on any stamped-steel piece in a stress test or FEA, being made from aluminum even....

    ivh8ukzi64ek.png
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,097
    edited February 2021
    I sure wouldn't mind having those. The flange could even be trimmed down as individuals needs for internal clearances dictated. Could easily be cut into 2 pieces for the passives heh heh. I know. That's some pretty huge cylindrical tubular stock and swing requirements for a lathe :smiley: Cutting those on a CNC mill from plate would be wasteful of material but doable. Waste is mitigated somewhat by the fact that the MW rings could be cut from the interior before the passive rings. Perhaps the pieces that would be wasted from interior of MW rings could be used to make aluminum or non magnetic stainless tweeter bezels.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • At this point I just have to ask. "Since I really have no idea as to the exact needs of this particular application".
    Are these, "rings" to be mounted from the, (inside) of an enclosure? With a transducers "cage" or "chassis", (outer ring) then sandwiched between this ring and the baffle? Or? I am not familiar "evidently" with the exact speaker model you are dealing with. I currently own two different models of the "SDA" variety. One is the "SDA-2B" model which I have never had the chance to listen too. But I have taken the "SDA-1C" apart so far. And both pair that I have now are in storage at this time.
    The only other pair of "SDA" that I have owned, "Circa 1990" that I purchased used in the Carolina's. But those are gone now. Those had a plate over the binding posts which said simply, "SDA" and no model number. But they also had a long serial number under the, "SDA" which I do not remember. And, I was never able to find anything much about them. As they were apparently a, "one off" pair. Those I have taken apart as well. But I do not remember any type of ring. On the int. OR ext. of either model which I have worked on before.
    So if someone could inform me a bit?

    And yes, That is me on that other site. I "was", and "am" trying to find an engineer who disappeared about a year ago..,.
    Related to that; Did Any of you fellows happen to know "Tommy Bohlender" before he passed? Or his lead engineer? Whom I happen to still be looking for...

    And just for the record, two points.
    1. Not, "thin skinned". Just a wee-bit frustrated.
    I do at times have the habit of running rough-shod, past/through certain peoples comfort level in their understanding of certain subjects.
    "Deer in the hi-beams look".
    And during this, in what I would call a, (Breach) of their, "cerebral integrity".
    I then get the same tired old comments. And they are, "Exactly the same every time".
    And then oddly, they always seem to think that their comments were funny.
    Hee hee, So then "I" decided to have a (moment).
    And, "Poof",
    The moment is gone.
    2. GREAT sense of humor! "I crack myself up almost constantly" but it is, very dry at times.

    And that, is "Enough" of that. Back to work.owsmioo33hfc.jpg
    S.
  • Oh, I noticed the, "Delrin" comment as well. Not a bad choice at all.
    "It has crossed my mind once or twice".
    But since I already have quite a large supply of another Dupont offering.
    Which I believe has "possibly" even better properties for certain devices. But especially when those devices are meant for sound reproduction.
    "Corian", and it comes in every color of the rainbow.
    So in a way it's always, "Pre-finished". You're simply sanding, buffing and etc. to your preferred grade.
    I could just make the entire baffle from a single piece. "Had plans to try that at some point anyway". And if I do not feel it is stiff enough alone. There is always the carbon fiber.
    Did I already say that it is currently "free"?
    S.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,602
    I then get the same tired old comments. And they are, "Exactly the same every time".

    I'll give you a clue as to why. It's not them, it's you.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,824
    xfactor wrote: »
    At this point I just have to ask. "Since I really have no idea as to the exact needs of this particular application".
    Are these, "rings" to be mounted from the, (inside) of an enclosure? With a transducers "cage" or "chassis", (outer ring) then sandwiched between this ring and the baffle?
    YES. The rings allow the speaker to be tightly mated to the baffle without worrying about the screws damaging it.
    xfactor wrote: »
    Or? I am not familiar "evidently" with the exact speaker model you are dealing with. I currently own two different models of the "SDA" variety. One is the "SDA-2B" model which I have never had the chance to listen too.
    You are missing out on some pretty good sounding speakers there. The rings referred to in this instance only make them better.

    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,097
    edited February 2021
    xfactor wrote: »
    At this point I just have to ask. "Since I really have no idea as to the exact needs of this particular application".
    Are these, "rings" to be mounted from the, (inside) of an enclosure? With a transducers "cage" or "chassis", (outer ring) then sandwiched between this ring and the baffle? Or? I am not familiar "evidently" with the exact speaker model you are dealing with.

    Yes they are on the inside but no the baffle is sandwiched between the ring on the inside and the cage or chassis of the transducer, as you put it.

    It is a concept that will work on any speaker with a typical driver mounted on a flat speaker baffle.

    Nice piece of ...........spalted........or birdseye.........maple veneer you have there.

    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • Hey, "F1Nut"?
    Hee hee, "Yes" I understand that it is me. But whatever happened to "manners"?
    I have noticed that you give excellent advice on speakers.
    So, "Thank you". I do not think you hear that enough.
    But in case anyone is thinking...Hee hee, a certain "something". You will find that I am truly, "Not a kiss a#!"!
    I just believe in giving credit where it has been earned..(And also manners).
    "At least I try".
    Anyway, What size rings are needed in this application? "I.D. and also a (preferable) max. for the O.D."
    Or is the O.D. of a specific dimension?
    I am guessing here, but the thickness of said ring only matters as far as to how it, "may" affect the transducers, "wave launch" parameters? And all phasing, "time" as in, "BSC", should not be an issue?
    Would that statement be correct?
    Feel free to enlighten me!
    By the way, I'll make some of these if anyone really wants them.
    Like I said before. I was preparing to make some rings anyway. Maybe a little differently though.
    S.
  • I guess that since I am at the point of "committing", (to making a few of these rings).
    I will say;
    I have thought about using rings similar to this before. But changed my mind on the interior rings.
    Why?
    Well, I kind of went a touch, "further" in my idea's about the concept and of the actual application.
    But I do understand that everyone doesn't wish to go quite this far. Or spend the time and other resources needed to do it "My Way".
    And yes, I realize that many of these things seem a bit, "Un-warranted" as far as many think. But if I could not "hear" the difference? I would not do this.
    And, I am not going to "explain" any of works that you will see in the following few pics here. "That will be done on the thread I began on this forum started just for such details".
    This will be done, as I have time.
    But I am posting these here and now just so you understand that I am not kidding.
    So, These are the "RtiA9" pair I am currently, "Modding/Upgrading".
    None of this process is new to me. I've done it all before.
    Just here is is being being adapted to another's speaker enclosure, components and etc. Not of my design.
    And yes, it looks very sloppy. "It was hard to adapt this to a speaker which was already complete and that I do not wish to cut up"...
    But sloppy looking just the same! Good thing all this sloppy will be hidden in the end!
    But then, the first time for anything different is typically difficult in some ways.
    8k0stwrdfixz.jpg
    S.
  • Cut pieces of the "19.6 Oz." per yard, carbon fiber fabric are first glued to the interior. Overlapping about 2" at each seam when possible. This includes the entire inside of the enclosure and the int. "face" of the front baffle. Very difficult to complete and why you use the "rings".v38khofp4zt6.jpg
    S.
  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,824
    @xfactor, I happen to have a complete set of these rings, made for SDA 2Bs. If you'd like measurements and/or pix, I'd be happy to send them to you.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


    http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/
  • Before the carbon fiber I did completely seal the cabinet. Using the structural two-part epoxy and adding some chopped fibers to the epoxy which was used for the top and bottom, "plates" of the enclosure. It was also "braced" with "Rock Maple", spars which I made from, (3/4" x 3-1/2") stock across and attached to the interior bracing already there. Those were the "weak points" as far as the enclosures large side radius was concerned.
    Once sealed? "The interior pressures when the transducers are firing are way more than enough to actually (kill) you. If you were (somehow) inside the enclosure when they were being used as designed. "Well over the 5Psi needed" If only briefly.
    4pl9aqpjtxtg.jpg
    S.