Atrium Sub100 Hookup

13

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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    Ok, YPAO is complete. It changed the Klipsch, front speakers from Small to Large. No other changes I could detect.

    Absolutely positive the Crown was Factory reset. They made it easy to find in the menu whereas Yamaha has it hidden.

    I wish there was a volume control on the Sub 100. To enjoy it the volume has to be set way to high on the Yamaha. But, far better than yesterday I would say.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    Is the Yamaha still showing the SW on the front panel?

    Is there any change in the Sub presence/volume after YPAO?

    Can you review the Yamaha for Distance and Level settings on the Speakers and sub?

    Your volume control on the Sub100 is going to be the Level setting on the Yamaha.

    We can change the input sensitivity on the Crown to boost the sub's signal, too. Reading for some more info.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    edited August 2020
    This next part depends on the settings you got in YPAO.
    I'd like to know:
    1. Is sub present?
    2. Speaker Distance and Levels
    3. Sub Distance and Level
    4. Crossover Setting

    Here's the front panel. The meters show three green lights before it goes into clipping. With the gain knobs maxed out, if you're not registering into these three lights with music playing, the incoming signal is probably too weak.
    lpd78my08wo1.png

    The Yamaha's sub output voltage (p196 in the manual) is 1V.
    The Crown's Input sensitivity has two options - 1.4V or 0.775V.
    If your meters are low, we can try setting the Crown's Input Sensitivity to High (0.775V).

    Note this section of the Crown manual - the High sensitivity option is normally used with RCA connections, which is what you have.
    p3gejkfv09tk.png

    We can try:
    1. Adjusting the sub's Distance and Level
    2. Changing the Crown's Input sensitivity to High (0.775V). We would turn the gain knobs down to 1/2 or 1/4 before doing this, and possibly zero the Subwoofer Level on the Yamaha.

    Next steps would depend on what happens after changing the input sensitivity.
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    1) SW still on front panel.

    2) Sub was changed to +7dB

    3) FL 17.4' FR 18.8' SW 9.6' Levels: FL 0.0dB FR -0.5dB SW +7.0dB

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    edited August 2020
    What did this do for your listening volume?
    Still have to turn it up real loud?

    And the crossover point?

    Try setting the L and R speakers back to small and see if you get more Sub presence. If not, on to next steps.
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    Crossover setting is 60Hz. That shows up for the Front speakers. Don't find any other crossover settings on the Yamaha.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    edited August 2020
    If you still don't have adequate subwoofer presence after setting the Klipsch back to small...

    Let's do this:
    1. Leave Klipsch set to Small
    2. Zero the SW Level in the Yamaha
    3. Set Gain Knobs 50% on the Crown
    4. Set Input Sensitivity High on the Crown
    5. Check for Sub presence.
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    I did the change to .775

    Note no difference.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    Set the Klipsch back to Small and the crossover to 80Hz or 90Hz.
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    1) Changed the Fronts back to Small (YPOA made them large)
    2) SW Level set to 0.0dB
    3) Gain knobs set to 50%
    4) Crown input sensitivity set to .775V
    5) Not sure what you mean b y Sub presence. It is still active in the Speaker List set to Use; Phase: Normal
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    Fronts set to 90Hz

    I just went out and checked and something we did seems to have killed the sub. Crown meter bottom scale light still flashing with the music but there is now nothing coming from the sub.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    By sub presence, I mean, how does it sound. Do you have bass, any changes, etc.
    1. Change the crossover from 60Hz to 90Hz on the Yamaha.
    2. If still no bass from the sub after setting the Klipsch Small and the Crossover to 90Hz, then:
      • Incrementally increase the gain knobs again on the Crown by 1/4 until max.
      • If still no bass when the Crown gain knobs are maxed out, increase the Subwoofer Level on the Yamaha to +3dB, then +6dB if still no sub output.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    CGC wrote: »
    Fronts set to 90Hz
    I just went out and checked and something we did seems to have killed the sub. Crown meter bottom scale light still flashing with the music but there is now nothing coming from the sub.
    Like dead-dead? Zero output?
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    It was dead-dead but the gain was set at 50%. I just maxed the gain and the sub is faint, to the touch. Otherwise you would not know it was working.

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    Okay, now start to increase the Subwoofer Level on the Yamaha to +3dB, then +6dB if still no sub output.

    Ideally you want to see those bottom three lights on the Crown illuminated.
    Bottom is signal, next two are levels.
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    Gain maxed out. Sub level set to +6dB. Very faint from the sub.
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    Have never seen the bottom three lights, or two, illuminated.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    And we had more bass from the sub this morning?
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    Yep
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    I have Seger's Live Bullet on now. That meter should be rockin'!
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    We're missing something simple. I'd go back to baseline at this point.
    Factory default Yamaha and Crown and start over.

    Do you have notes from your session with the Crown tech?
    Factory defaults for that should be right for stereo use, with the only required adjustment for us being setting High Sens Input.

    Can you post photos of the connections on the Crown and Yamaha?
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    CGC wrote: »
    I have Seger's Live Bullet on now. That meter should be rockin'!
    It should!

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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    xw1cwp0d7evn.jpeg
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    I am going to have to take a break here. The boss would like me to go pick up dinner. Can you imagine?? Anyway, I will be off the grid here for a while. Nothing I can do as I do not have the expertise. But, we have set both units to their factory default settings from the get go this morning. Maybe a setting in the Crown is eluding us.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    edited August 2020
    Gotta comply with boss's orders!

    Yeah, should be pretty straight forward.
    At this point, I'd say, let's zero and factory default both units again and start over manually.

    The only things we should have to configure are:
    1. Speaker cable terminations at the Sub100, which you've verified twice are correct at the Sub100, per the Polk Manual referenced earlier in the thread.
      [Sub100 Side] > [Speaker Cable Side]
      • (+) White > Red
      • (-) Green > Black
      • (+) Red > Red
      • (-) Black > Black
    2. Confirm Sub100 speaker cable connections tight at Crown.
    3. Yamaha Speaker Setup - Enable Front L, Front R, Sub; all others None
    4. Yamaha Crossover - 80Hz or 90Hz
    5. Crown Gain Knobs - Max
    6. Crown Input Sensitivity - High/0.775V as recommended in manual for RCA source input connections.

    • From here there should be some bass presence from the Sub100.
    • If not, then we increase the Subwoofer Level in the Yamaha increments of +3dB up through max of +10dB


    Cabling looks good. Nothing jumping out at me here.
    72vg76hg2xka.png
    Post edited by msg on
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    edited August 2020
    I’m drawn back to the Sub100. The manual seemed to lean toward those satellite speakers and never a stand alone setup for the subwoofer. I don’t understand the duel coil thing. Are we doing right by connecting all four leads to power the subwoofer only? I just wonder if that is splitting the juice to the sub from the Crown in half because of the four leads. Just me, and I have no idea what I am talking about. Grasping at straws at this point.
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  • CGC
    CGC Posts: 51
    Same line of thinking regarding the RCA connections. Should we be using both Sub Preouts for one subwoofer?
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    edited August 2020
    No, these are good questions. The Manual says both left and right channels are required to achieve maximum output and that the polarity needs to be correct or it will result in very little bass output and possible damage to speaker or amp. The manual also specifically addresses the use of 2 amplifiers, so I think we're good there. They show both pair of leads connected.
    lji5ofaynp1u.png


    Regarding the RCA connections, we could use one cable, but you would need a splitter at the Crown to feed both channels. I think both subwoofer channels are sending to the Crown, because the bottom "Signal" light is illuminated for both L and R on the Crown. EDIT - WAIT A SECOND, IN YOUR PHOTO OF THE CROWN ABOVE, THE SIGNAL LIGHTS ARE NOT ILLUMINATED. I'M NOT SURE THE CROWN IS SEEING SIGNAL FROM THE SUBWOOFER OUTPUTS ON THE YAMAHA. [ref below]

    OR

    Single Subwoofer out, and we configure the Crown for Bridge Mode and wire the sub leads in parallel to one channel. But that's pure experimentation for my limited experience, and I'm not sure what would happen. I think the resistance would be halved, and the power would go up. According to the Crown documentation. I don't know what this means for the Sub100.

    I think we're on the right track here, just missing something simple.

    EDIT - SIGNAL LIGHTS ON CROWN NOT ILLUMINATED
    I think these bottom two lights are supposed to be on even if signal is weak.
    c0q4noqnjwls.png

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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,114
    If those are RG-6 coax cables for the subwoofer outs to Crown inputs, see if you can find a set of regular RCAs to put on for now. Those coax cables should be okay, but just to rule out bad cables, try a regular RCA LR cable there for the subwoofers to Crown input.
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,300
    After a reset of all devices, exclude the Crown go direct to receiver speaker out with setting to small and xover's to 100 on front speaker output

    Start with low volume
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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