Sub Frequency Level

I have been reading about sub settings and I noticed the most common frequency settings are from 40-80Hz. However, when I set my AVR crossover at 100Hz the bass levels are much noticeable. I'm a bit confused by this as wouldn't you want more bass so why is everyone setting the frequency between 40-80Hz?
Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
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Comments

  • msgmsg Posts: 6,269
    edited August 2020
    It's more about the right frequency to blend with the bass capabilities of your other speakers, room, etc.

    Too low a crossover point and you'll have a gap in bass.

    Too high a crossover point, and the sub may be too active and start to muddy up and lose definition. Think, constant rumble.

    For small satellite speakers this is really the only option, as small speakers can't make much bass. For larger speakers, however, it's about finding that sweet spot.

    Yes, let your ears guide you. Keep notes, and don't be afraid to experiment. Others' numbers are only a rule of thumb.
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  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    msg wrote: »
    Yes use your ears. Others' numbers are only a rule of thumb.

    So I'm not going nuts? lol The higher the setting, the more bass? I have two 15" subs so technically I should go higher?
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • msgmsg Posts: 6,269
    edited August 2020
    It's not really more bass in the sense of greater bass output. It's more of a perception, and "more" depends on which characteristic of bass you're talking about.

    By raising the crossover level, you're allowing the sub to "speak" more for higher frequencies in the track.

    After a point you'll start to hear things like lower frequencies of voices and such. Depending on the audio you're listening to, this can muddy things up by making your sub too busy to do anything very well.

    This can be perceived as fuller frequency coverage, and it is, but again, it's about balance and blending. Ideally, you shouldn't be able to easily locate the sub. If you can, you're letting in too high a range of frequencies.

    But yes, sometimes a higher crossover point works nicely. I run a small set of desktop speakers with a sub set at 100Hz. It sounds good for near field 2ch listening.
    I disabled signatures.
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,624
    What speakers do you have so we can pull up the frequency slope
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

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  • msgmsg Posts: 6,269
    ^^^ Yeah, this. Let's start here.
    I disabled signatures.
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    edited August 2020
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    What speakers do you have so we can pull up the frequency slope

    Front - RTiA9 (set to LARGE)
    Center - CSiA6 (set to SMALL)
    Surround - RTiA7 (set to LARGE)
    Rear - RTiA5 (set to SMALL)
    Subs - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • msgmsg Posts: 6,269
    And what are you using to drive these speakers?
    What's your AVR?
    Do you have an external amp?
    I disabled signatures.
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    edited August 2020
    AVR - Yamaha HTR-6180

    Outlaw 2200 x 3 - Front Stage
    Outlaw 2220 x 2 - Surround
    Outlaw 5000 - Rear
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,624
    With you setting the speakers to large keeps them running full range and your receiver crossover settings will change nothing to those speakers

    Set all speakers to small
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    edited August 2020
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Set all speakers to small

    Oh Ya? I won't lose the bass from the A9s and A7s? Or doesn't that matter?
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,624
    The 7's don't matter definitely set those to small

    While watching a movie with heavy bass drops will send full range to all "Large" set speakers and you could torch a speaker

    Start off by setting to small and re-calibrate the system using the mic. Turn off all fans and AC and get room as quiet as possible while running calibrations
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    Ok, I'm going to do that.
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,968
    simoes wrote: »
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Set all speakers to small

    Oh Ya? I won't lose the bass from the A9s and A7s? Or doesn't that matter?

    Yep it will all go to the subs. Where are these 2 15" subs located?
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    edited August 2020
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Start off by setting to small and re-calibrate the system using the mic. Turn off all fans and AC and get room as quiet as possible while running calibrations

    So I set all speakers to small and ran calibrations. Once done, the settings were changed to 90Hz crossover, all speakers changed to large, with the exception of the center speaker. Change them all back to small now?

    There is also a setting to select the RFE/Bass output. I have it set to sub only.
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    edited August 2020
    yw1ftmlckz3z.jpg
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Where are these 2 15" subs located?

    Both in front of room in opposite corners - challenged for space...
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • msgmsg Posts: 6,269
    Nice subs, too.
    I disabled signatures.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,968
    simoes wrote: »
    yw1ftmlckz3z.jpg
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Where are these 2 15" subs located?

    Both in front of room in opposite corners - challenged for space...

    When I had two large subs, I found opposite corners front and back work very well in my non-ideal room. Room modes could also be cancelling frequencies.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,968
    There's a lot going on up front that's for sure. When I started my last post you had edited so I didn't see the picture until my post came up. I was like hey now where did that picture come from lol
  • msgmsg Posts: 6,269
    By the way, what are you listening to when you feel like you're not getting enough bass or fill? Is it music or theater?
    I disabled signatures.
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    msg wrote: »
    By the way, what are you listening to when you feel like you're not getting enough bass or fill? Is it music or theater?

    I didn't say I wasn't getting enough bass lol I was just shocked that I got more bass when I set the frequency to 100Hz, oppose to the average I see around on all the forums of 40-80Hz. I was just a bit confused to why everyone has such a low frequency level.
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,968
    Well regardless of what others have, forget numbers and go with what sounds most coherent and best in your room.
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    edited August 2020
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Well regardless of what others have, forget numbers and go with what sounds most coherent and best in your room.

    All this is confusing to me lol I thought the lower the frequency, the more bass. I was shocked to find the opposite :|

    Anyway, I have set all speakers to small and see how it sounds tomorrow...
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,978
    Have you run Audyssey?
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,978
    Also are you running the subs as LFE or Main+LFE
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Have you run Audyssey?

    I ran the AVR auto calibration setup. Is that the same as Audyssey? lol Man, do I sound dumb haha
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,624
    The the higher settings cross out the lower frequencies to your speakers, those frequencies go higher into your sub

    Setting Receiver say at 100hz for example

    Your sub will play frequencies from 20hz to 100hz and when speakers are set to small they will play play frequencies 100hz-20khz

    Setting speakers to large they will play full range
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    joecoulson wrote: »
    Also are you running the subs as LFE or Main+LFE

    Just the subs as LFE...
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,624
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,624
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • simoessimoes Posts: 71
    edited August 2020
    txcoastal1 wrote: »

    So this makes sense, by selecting 100Hz I'm sending more "upper base" frequencies to the subs which in turn is why I'm hearing more base. Like msg has indicated, I guess I have to listen and see when the sound becomes too muddy due to the subs being too busy playing such a wide range. Also have to be careful of missing out on the midrange frequencies to the other speakers. Starting to make sense. lol

    I've set all my speakers to SMALL so I'll see what kind of difference that makes :D
    Projector - Optoma CinemaX P1 | Screen - Elunevision 120" Aurora 8k Ultra Short Throw NanoEdge
    Media - HTPC: 120 TB Movies, Nvidia Shield | AVR - Denon AVR-X3700H | Amp - Outlaw 5000, Outlaw 2200 x 3, Outlaw 2220 x 2
    Front Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA9 | Center Spkr - Polk Audio CSiA6 | Surround Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA7
    Rear Spkrs - Polk Audio RTiA5 | Atmos - Polk Audio RTiA1 | Sub - HSU VTF-15H MK2 x 2
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