Optimal Speaker Wire Gauge

audioluvr

Wireworld Silver Eclipse.
Nordost Frey 2
Audioquest Silver Jupiter

BlueFox

Of course you can do better. Start with Shunyata's entry level speaker cable.

https://shunyata.com/products/audio-cables/venom-series-audio-cables/venom-sp/


https://shunyata.com/speaker-cables/

F1nut

That was crap cable then and now. Yes, you can do much better. Forget about the gauge.

mhardy6647

PolksTillIDie wrote: »

F1nut:

I think you should buy some real speaker cable.

That *was* real speaker cable (Monster) circa 1995 and that's the point of my thread.

and this was a real car in 1995.



The world changes.

I plan to replace this cable and I'm trying to at least replicate the gauge, as I'm pleased with the sound that I get, but while I'm at it, can I do better?

I'd encourage you, in all seriousness, not to obsess about the gauge per se. Three (big) things matter about cable -- resistance, capacitance, and inductance. Beyond those three, there are more subtle differences related (perhaps!) to geometry, materials of construction, interconnect design, dielectrics, etc.

Look at your amplifier power, the nature of your loudspeaker load (impedance and phase curves) and the run length for the wire. If you know your amplifier's output resistance ("damping factor"), you can also calculate the impact of a length of hypotherical cable of a given resistance on that, if you like. Chances are, anything beyond 16 gauge is overkill. Overkill is fine (this is America, after all), but focusing on cable cross-sectional area is like focusing on (only) horsepower when buying a new car. You can, but there's other stuff in the package that's every bit as important in the real world.

Gardenstater

When I went from 6ft long 16 gauge lamp cord to 13 gauge Litz of regular copper I heard a tremendous improvement in Bass and overall clarity. Then when I went to 5ft 14 gauge 4N copper Ribbon configuration cables with a 0.003" dielectric spacing the improvement was huge over the Litz. Highs became crystalline and bass maintained it's punch and the transient response became much faster. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

PolksTillIDie

OK, I think I've given this speaker cable thing enough air. Think I'm gonna go with 12 feet of 10 ga Mark Grant cables. Thanks for all the help.

And F1nut, maybe you had different setups when you compared the Polk SDA-2B's as better than the 1C's. Got the 1C's this week and they're vastly superior to the 2B's. A wraparound wall of sound with the 1C's versus an occasional sliver of outside-the-speakers mid-range frequencies with the 2B's. Bigger bass.

Just sayin' ...

F1nut

Then something seriously isn't right with your 2B's. One of your drivers is likely wired incorrectly as that will kill the soundstage as well as the bass response.

I and others have compared them with the same gear in the same room and also at different places with different gear and different people, all with the same conclusion. The 2B is the better balanced and therefore better sounding speaker.

Bigger bass? I guess if you like an over preponderance of bloated mid bass.

Gardenstater

What features made you choose those....description....details? Their site doesn't even seem to use the American Wire Gauge system. Are you in England?

This one? https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/speaker-cables/van-damme-2-x-25mm-hi-fi-speaker-cable-up-lcofc-unterminated/

I did the math and that is about a 13.2 gauge cable, and with all those fine strands (7 x 46) I don't think their claim that it minimizes skin effect holds any water because it isn't enough to have small diameter strands but they must be electrically insulated from one another. That's what Litz is all about.

audioluvr

Gardenstater wrote: »

https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/speaker-cables/van-damme-2-x-25mm-hi-fi-speaker-cable-up-lcofc-unterminated/

Looks like fancy lamp cord to me.

Gardenstater

audioluvr wrote: »

Gardenstater wrote: »

https://www.markgrantcables.co.uk/uk/speaker-cables/van-damme-2-x-25mm-hi-fi-speaker-cable-up-lcofc-unterminated/

Looks like fancy lamp cord to me.

Yeah and I'm definitely not in the camp that believes more and finer strands is better because, even though the measurement freaks claim it makes no difference, I believe it smears the sound to have the signal crossing all those wire boundaries. That's why UPOCC Ohno wire sounds better, very few grain boundaries for electrons to cross.

Clipdat

Gardenstater wrote: »

Yeah and I'm definitely not in the camp that believes more and finer strands is better because, even though the measurement freaks claim it makes no difference, I believe it smears the sound to have the signal crossing all those wire boundaries. That's why UPOCC Ohno wire sounds better, very few grain boundaries for electrons to cross.

Don't cross the streams!

PolksTillIDie

Ah, where to start?

F1nut: The 1c's sound better on my system. Perhaps the one you A/B'd your pair with wasn't the same unit/make/wpc as mine. The results you got were specific to the systems used. The bass comments were unnecessary. I'm not a headbanger.

Gardenstater: 2.5mm is 10AWG. You can actually look this stuff up. I've seen that if I ask 10 people their preference on speaker cable, I get about 12 answers. So I'll start with something, A/B it against what I've got, and start the journey to finding out what's the best for me like all of you did. And yep, those cables are in the UK.
Fedex.

audioluvr: It's all fancy lamp cord. We pay all this $$ and obsess over all these details to get marginal gains that are significant to us.

Now on to something else ....

F1nut

It's got nothing with being a headbanger. The fact that you said that tells me you have no idea what an over preponderance of bloated mid bass actually is. If you bothered to figure out what is wrong with your 2B's you might just discover what many of us with over 30 years of SDA experience know.

Gardenstater

PolksTillIDie wrote: »

Ah, where to start?

Gardenstater: 2.5mm is 10AWG. You can actually look this stuff up. I've seen that if I ask 10 people their preference on speaker cable, I get about 12 answers. So I'll start with something, A/B it against what I've got, and start the journey to finding out what's the best for me like all of you did. And yep, those cables are in the UK.
Fedex.

Now on to something else ....

I mistakenly thought that you wanted to learn. 2.5mm is 10 gauge ONLY IF we are talking about solid core wire. The mfg. you are going with that has the glorified lamp cord (it does look nice) specifically states that the construction is:

Conductor stranding – 7 x (46 x 0.10mm)

Now if you calculate the area of a 0.10mm dia. wire (Pi times diameter squared divided by 4) and multiply it by 46 and then by 7 you get that it is more like 13.2 gauge, from this chart:

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Most of us enjoy this hobby by doing our own experimentation and seeing the incremental improvements, so you'll be fine. You'll just spend a LOT more money in the end.

PS: The really frustrating thing about this is that you have no clue still what your original cable's AWG (because you didn't follow my advice on how to measure) is and your whole premise was that you wanted to duplicate with new glorified lamp cord (my words) but you don't even know if you will be doing that. SMH

mhardy6647

For better or worse, it's not all "fancy lamp cord."
Some of the wires sold for hifi use are almost terrifyingly exotic in design, sometimes making them interesting, reactive loads for amplifiers all by themselves (even before they're connected to a loudspeaker).

F1nut

Definitely not lamp cord.

DillyD

I'm having trouble h

DillyD

I'm having trouble hooking up these speakers to my record player, how do I so it?

DillyD

How do hook these together?

msg

Do you have a receiver with a phono/turntable input?

Record Player >> Receiver >> Left and Right Speaker Cables out to speakers. You need terminal nuts on those speaker terminals, or banana plugs.

pitdogg2

You're flipping joking right?
You cannot be that audio dumb.

txcoastal1

DillyD wrote: »

How do hook these together?

audioluvr

PolksTillIDie wrote: »

audioluvr: It's all fancy lamp cord. We pay all this $$ and obsess over all these details to get marginal gains that are significant to us.

Don't knock it till you try it. Someone here smarter than me once said " People who don't know, don't know they don't know. Ya know?"

Gardenstater

If you don't want to rush in and pay the big $$'s or even moderate $'s for some mfg's offering that is recommended by knowledgeable and experienced folks here, why not start down the path of educating yourself and DIYing some cables yourself that might surprise lots of people as far as how well they perform? You can make a damn good one from some CAT5e cable. It will be whatever gauge you want it to be so make it the same gauge and length as your lamp cord for A/B ing the two, ETP electrolytic tough pitch copper which is probably what is in your lamp cord or slightly worse if you really do have .9995 copper, and most importantly will be Litz as well as low inductance due to the twisted signal pairs! Make it the same gauge as your glorified lamp cord and then get back to us. That's what I did for my first step away from lamp cord. Here's where I began to learn and got the construction details.

https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/tweaks.html

https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diycables.html

https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ffrc_e.html (<<13 gauge)

https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html (<<this one should be 10 gauge)

PolksTillIDie

Thanks. I'll add it to the list.

fish357

I would offer that, using the formulas below, one should be able to figure out how much power- Jules in this instance- a given gauge and length can carry before falling on its face (ie resistance).
If you put a gallon of water into a large funnel, it’s going to come out a lot more slowly than it went in.

Maybe this is helpful, maybe not.




I realize the application is a little different (I spent 7 years doing 12 volt stuff for cops), but I believe the concept is the same. In this case you’re just talking in terms of impedance- alternating current, versus resistance- direct current.
I’m probably saying stuff most of you already know.

mhardy6647

the units of power are Watts.
the units of energy are Joules.
the units of force are Newtons.
https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/units.html

1 Watt = 1 Joule/second = 1 (m^2-kg)/sec^3
1 Joule = 1 Newton-meter = 1 (m^2-kg)/sec^2
1 Newton = 1 (kg-m)/sec^2

audioluvr

Yes but how do your joules sound?

BlueFox

My next Shunyata speaker cables.

fish357

audioluvr wrote: »

Yes but how do your joules sound?

You’d have to ask my girlfriend, I never get close enough to hear.