Optimal Speaker Wire Gauge

PolksTillIDie

I have a pair of SDA-1Cs coming in from Maryland to replace my 2Bs. And for some reason, for the 25+ years I've had them, I never questioned the gauge of the speaker wire used with the 2Bs. What I got originally was Monster Cable with 4 copper wire bundles per length of cable, using two strands twisted together per each + and - . I'm using the same cable now and no matter how hard I try, I can't see the gauge, though it appears in the 12-16 gauge range.

My question is: what gauge should I be using for an optimal setup? Wire lengths are going to be 6-8 feet. Running 165W @ 6 ohms.

Thanks.

pitdogg2

My question is what gauge should I be using for an optimal setup?

Well that is going to be different for everyone. The wire you have now should be sufficient, does it worry you? Can you see green corrosion inside the cable?

F1nut

Should have TL'd the 2B's. They're the better speaker to start with, IMO.

Once one gets past generic speaker cable one realizes gauge is much less of a factor than some make it out to be.

VR3

Agree

And truly 0 gauge is the only way to go, if you are not using shears to cut it, it's not good enough

mhardy6647

VR3 wrote: »

Agree

And truly 4/0 gauge is the only way to go, if you are not using a chainsaw to cut it, it's not good enough

There, fixed that for you.

F1nut

I got your 0 gauge....

mhardy6647

looks like the ol' main trunk line in Manhattan for the phone company

Hey! Benny! You see da puce/sepia pair in dere, pal?
Dat's da one we're lookin' fuh!

lightman1

Left channel positive lead....

pitdogg2

lightman1 wrote: »

Left channel positive lead....

That banana plug will need to articulate.... some
🤓

audioluvr

Looks the stuff they use to power the conveyor at the local coal fire plant

mhardy6647

lightman1 wrote: »

Left channel positive lead....

pitdogg2 wrote: »

lightman1 wrote: »

Left channel positive lead....

That banana plug will need to articulate.... some
🤓

hmmm... acceptable for supertweeter use, I'd opine...



... and I certainly prefer my banana plugs -- like my life partners -- articulate.

mhardy6647

lightman1 wrote: »

Left channel positive lead....

mhardy6647 wrote: »

pitdogg2 wrote: »

lightman1 wrote: »

Left channel positive lead....

That banana plug will need to articulate.... some
🤓

hmmm... acceptable for supertweeter use, I'd say.

... and I certainly prefer my banana plugs -- like my life partners -- articulate.

Gardenstater

I'd put purity of copper first (prefer UPOCC), Litz (or thin ribbon) configuration second (with no conductor large enough for skin effect), and Gauge last (but not unimportant by any means). In my experience, gauge is very important for good tight bass.

PS: theoretically insulation is important so maybe 4th on the list, with low dielectric insulations like polyethylene or teflon foams preferred. I haven't done any comparisons of wires with crappy PVC insulation with these so I am going on theory or faith here.

Gardenstater

If you want to determine the gauge just put a caliper on one of the strands and (assuming they're all the same dia.), calculate the cross sectional area and multiply by the number strands. Then go to a wire gauge chart and find the area and read off the gauge.

PolksTillIDie

Wow. Thanks for all the comments, both comical and serious. Gardenstater, I see your custom cables are 14 gauge. What's the brand?

Gardenstater

You're welcome. I fabricate them myself. They are similar to Goertz Alpha Core but I used 4N copper where they use a lower grade of copper. I would recommend that type of cable very highly. Let's just say that in my limited experience it is the best I've heard and lots of people in my Audio Club agree. My budget is limited so I have to work around that.

afterburnt

mhardy6647

afterburnt wrote: »

Naah -- those suck the life out of the sonics.

tonyb

lightman1 wrote: »

Left channel positive lead....

Ha...we used to pull that old cable out of the ground by hundreds of feet. Slice it up with a stihl saw in 3 foot sections. Then steal a shopping cart, fill it with the wire, poor gas on it....the rubber coatings drip through the cart and your left with a nice haul of copper for the scrap yard. Kept the new guys busy and out of our hair.

gp4jesus

For me gauge rules, OFC, made of hair-thin strands. After that you can get creative and the $ goes up exponentially.

PolksTillIDie wrote: »

...And for some reason, for the 25+ years I've had them, I never questioned the gauge of the speaker wire used with the 2Bs. What I got originally was Monster Cable with 4 copper wire bundles per length of cable, using two strands twisted together per each + and - .

post a pic please? I knew someone that had something like what you describe. I think you have a double run of 10 gauge = 7 ga.

PolksTillIDie wrote: »

My question is: what gauge should I be using for an optimal setup? Wire lengths are going to be 6-8 feet. Running 165W @ 6 ohms.
Thanks.

If your speakers are a genuine 6 ohm load, minimum 10 ga - but that’s my experience from my days* messing w/a pair of 3.2 ohm subs.
*nearly 30 years ago

Gardenstater

I know some here disagree that damping factor is something that matters and I've posted this here before but this is a calculator that you input amplifer specs and load impedance and wire gauge and length and it gives you the effective damping factor and some other parameters. Doesn't work for Lampreys or Electric Eels

http://www.bcae1.com/dampfact.htm

Gardenstater

Here's another one that also takes into account cable capacitance and also calculates the -3dB rolloff frequency and states that it should be 80kHz or above.

https://products.electrovoice.com/na/en/cableloss/

audioluvr

So I think cable design is more important than gauge based on the fact that I had 10 gauge monster cable at the beginning of my journey. When I replaced them with 13ga. Wireworld ME's there was a HUGE improvement in clarity, imaging and bass control.

gp4jesus

Warning: long post ahead.

I won’t argue well “engineered” cables will improve imaging, “remove the veil,” etc, etc.

The links below describes my recent* and not so recent** experience w/what I like to call reducing Connection Resistance (CR) - cable gauge increases, bigger binding posts, soldering where practical. All the while, one change at a time, one channel at a time to allow comparison. Each time I changed/reduced the CR, I experienced a volume increase and more percussive bass. Same held true for my center channel

The first link ends near “the end of a long road” of modding my RTi A7s. You’ll see 2 links to earlier RTi A7 threads. I still have a few but important mods that include better cabling to the tweets & mids (for another day)

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/174880/tri-amped-rti-a7#latest*
(sorry for the length, ignore the last 4-5 replies)


This link you’ll read some theories but no refutations of my conclusion: lower impedance systems prefer bigger cables or bi-wiring if easy to do.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/172939/why-did-my-subs-get-louder#latest**

About 10 years ago on this forum you would always find people ARGUING over internal rewiring speakers. The nay sayers, though not one tried it, would claim “...a waste of time.” I always weighed in w/ my “one channel at a time” story from about 1981 concluding w/ “...explain to us why...” causing them to tuck tail and run.

So... like the Hot Rod adage: “no replacement for displacement.” Or, no amount of cable “engineering*” can get around the reduced CR of larger cables, etc.
*assuming equally finely stranded OFC of the same gauge.

Y’all are entitled to your opinions but I stand behind the above. I’ll wait behind a shield for the tomatoes

Tony

gp4jesus

Gardenstater wrote: »

I know some here disagree that damping factor is something that matters and I've posted this here before but this is a calculator that you input amplifer specs and load impedance and wire gauge and length and it gives you the effective damping factor and some other parameters. Doesn't work for Lampreys or Electric Eels

http://www.bcae1.com/dampfact.htm

+1

Gardenstater

Soldering, when done right, and with highest quality silver solder, is probably best for most situations. I think for the Litz wires, where it's hard to be certain that you got all the polymer off, it may be best to twist them as tight as possible, using a proper sleeve crimping tool as an aid and then lightly tin them. I do believe however that when it is possible to do so, a crimping sleeve on bare wires and contacts can be better when extreme pressure is used to the point where you basically get a cold weld, and that requires a crimping tool that fits exactly right, and is capable of exerting enough psi. Even high quality solder that we use has a much lower conductivity than the base materials we are joining, but it also increases the molecular contact area.

I too have experienced volume increases and punchier tighter base with gauge increase and attention to contact resistances. I also favor silver platelet grease, used very sparingly on removable contacts. It fills in the gaps on a molecular level and increases conductivity.

PolksTillIDie

Well, I finally took off a connector and cut off a section and sized it. The red striped wire is about half the diameter of the black and both twisted together will just barely pull through the 10 gauge wire guide. So I guess my speaker wiring is effectively 10 ga.



So, considering that and all other criteria being equal, dare I try a larger gauge? Rather than run the length of each cable looking for questionable areas, I was going to change the cables anyway.

Whaddaya think guys?

Gardenstater

Well not to be critical but you can't size stranded wire twisted together by pulling through a hole. Do you have a caliper? If so do what I suggested above ^^. Looks pretty oxidized so if you were going to properly terminate those ends, whether by crimping or soldering, each strand needs to be cleaned. Vinegar followed by a baking soda neutralization may work for you (on the untwisted ends). What I think is when you know the actual true gauge and you know the minimum length you can cut them to, run the parameters through one or both of the calculators I posted above and then decide if you think it is large enough gauge ^^

F1nut

PolksTillIDie wrote: »

Well, I finally took off a connector and cut off a section and sized it. The red striped wire is about half the diameter of the black and both twisted together will just barely pull through the 10 gauge wire guide. So I guess my speaker wiring is effectively 10 ga.



So, considering that and all other criteria being equal, dare I try a larger gauge? Rather than run the length of each cable looking for questionable areas, I was going to change the cables anyway.

Whaddaya think guys?

I think you should buy some real speaker cable.

Clipdat

These are a solid choice and are relatively inexpensive if you're looking to experience what a different type of speaker cable geometry can do for your sound: https://www.ebay.com/itm/KnuKonceptz-Krux-Interlaced-Braided-8-Gauge-Speaker-Cable-8-Pair-w-Banana-Plugs/392222051240

PolksTillIDie

F1nut:

I think you should buy some real speaker cable.

That *was* real speaker cable (Monster) circa 1995 and that's the point of my thread. I plan to replace this cable and I'm trying to at least replicate the gauge, as I'm pleased with the sound that I get, but while I'm at it, can I do better?