receiver bass management - double bass vs crossover

my setup
rti10's paired with a smaller sub. listening to music

I was playing with my rti10's tonight and crossover points and realized that the bass felt a lot more fuller when i had double bass turned on. (fronts set to FULL) and the sub engaged as well.
i tested setting the fronts to diff crossover points upto as high as 80hz and it seemed like the bass was still fuller with the double bass turned on each time i tried a A-B compare.

Is that normal? Everything i have read is that a define crossover point is better.

Is my hearing failing me or is this alright?

Comments

  • msgmsg Posts: 5,551
    I tried that same thing back when I had RTi10s and running them off an AVR.
    I found the RTi10s to sound a bit lacking in the mids and bottom end, and had to crank them up to get them to sound fuller. What I didn't realize at the time was that it's just a hot speaker up top. They're made more for HT, and they do well there, but tough to find the sweet spot with them for music.

    In an attempt to fill in, I used whatever version of that "double-bass" function is for the AVR I was using at the time (entry-level Pioneer). Everything did seem to sound fuller, but I remember getting some feedback that it can cause problems with bass performance in the room, overall.

    Bottom line is there's no right or wrong here, just whatever works best for your space and system. I think the worst thing that could happen is that you could get some cancellation or muddied bass or something.

    Maybe some others can chime in here on this.

    You can also try searching on it. Here are a couple of articles to familiarize yourself a bit, and maybe lead you to more reading.
    https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/utilizing-extra-bass
    https://subwoofer101.com/setting-up-your-gear/large-vs-small-lfe-main-double-bass-etc/
    I disabled signatures.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,898
    The issue is your room and it's placement of your subwoofer and speakers. If your getting fuller bass with both reproducing the exact bass notes until the 10's fall off and the sub picks up then you need to place your sub better or add another one.
    Usually in most cases the left and right stereo speaker setup the position to your seat to the distance between the speakers and the way the room interacts with the bass notes is usually a mess. Crossing them over at 60-100hz somewhere in there will provide better dynamics, cleaner mid and high range clarity and allowing the sub when properly placed vs your seating location will provide much smoother cleaner more effective bass. Most of the time people are use to having to much bass and thing thats how it's supposed to sound. If you want a reference calibration you need to pay attention to your seating and sub relationship. Most of the time this is difficult to do as many of us have limited placement options. I suggest learning about the Subwoofer crawl and follow those guide lines. You will probably think your bass is slightly weak after a proper calibration but over time you will learn you can hear everything much cleaner and clearer.
    Level matching frequency response to your listening position is key my friend.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • thejckthejck Posts: 842
    thanks for the input.

    thinking about this. for music i think mid-bass is more important. the sub i am playing with is not very big and so its severely lacking in the low range but this is a secondary setup for a bedroom.

    I am wondering if double-bass setting is great for music because it compliments the mid-bass very well and most music only goes down that far anyway.

    I am not under any illusions that this sub is going to perform well for low bass HT scenes. but i have a diff room in the house for that experience.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,424
    Nothing wrong with using the double bass option, if it sounds better to your ears, roll with it.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 25,354
    double bass... ?!? ;)

    pdbisttb3pga.png
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 5,238
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    double bass... ?!? ;)

    Double double bass.

    ydfu6c5lzrpo.jpg
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,470
    Viking64 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    double bass... ?!? ;)

    Double double bass.

    ydfu6c5lzrpo.jpg

    Damn, is that just for show or is that someone's drum kit?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,293
    edited March 19
    they could do that Jesse. two pedals could work 4 bass drums. Just like now folk use one kick drum with two pedals.

    that might just be for show.

    If you want to see a serious kit check out Terry Bozzio's


    wbhgytybjmbb.png


    7zncztomz1nt.png

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 5,238
    F1nut wrote: »
    Damn, is that just for show or is that someone's drum kit?

    I know a lot of drummers tour with a quad set-up. I can't say for sure what the sonic benefits would be, unless you would want to isolate each kick head for some reason. That would make more sense in a studio, I would opine (italics/end italics). Although I would hate to have to mike it. :p

    A friend of mine posted video of his studio kit, which only had ONE bass drum. At the beginning of this clip, you can see how many beats are possible with a double pedal. It's quite astounding, actually.

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,470
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    they could do that Jesse. two pedals could work 4 bass drums. Just like now folk use one kick drum with two pedals.

    that might just be for show.

    If you want to see a serious kit check out Terry Bozzio's


    wbhgytybjmbb.png


    7zncztomz1nt.png

    He certainly wouldn't have a problem hitting something...lol
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,470
    Viking64 wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    Damn, is that just for show or is that someone's drum kit?

    I know a lot of drummers tour with a quad set-up. I can't say for sure what the sonic benefits would be, unless you would want to isolate each kick head for some reason. That would make more sense in a studio, I would opine (italics/end italics). Although I would hate to have to mike it. :p

    A friend of mine posted video of his studio kit, which only had ONE bass drum. At the beginning of this clip, you can see how many beats are possible with a double pedal. It's quite astounding, actually.


    That is astounding.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,424
    Freakin' awesome....
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,286
    if you're using Audyssey check the phase on your sub.

    Set the C/O to 80HZ put on some bass heavy music listen for a minute. Flip the switch and listen to the same track again. Which ever has more bass leave it there.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • thejckthejck Posts: 842
    my sub doesnt have a phase switch. is the other option to adjust the distance in the AVR to account for phase differences?
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,470
    tonyb wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with using the double bass option, if it sounds better to your ears, roll with it.

    ^ This ^
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

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