Find me a starter turntable!

audioluvr

Ok, I don't know why but lately I've been kicking around the idea of picking me up a turntable. Me being the tinkerer I am, I'd like to pick up a turntable of good quality or fixable. The CL here in Portland is full of them but I don't know where to start.

Any advice?

jdjohn

This one is nice:
https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/d/vancouver-pioneer-pl-505-turntable/7075012714.html

And this one (made by CEC):
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/d/portland-lafayette-4000-turntable/7074307199.html

Beauty here:
https://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/d/sherwood-sansui-sr-838-turntable/7071679356.html

audioluvr

Thanks! I tried contacting the guy with the Sansui just to see what he had to get out of it. No response yet. That Lafayette sounds like a sweet deal. I'll have to check that one out.

aprazer402

I have a several TT's of ~1974-1983. My Sansui SR-838 has worked flawlessly. Speed is "dead on balls accurate" "It's an industry term."

audioluvr

aprazer402 wrote: »

"dead on balls accurate" "It's an industry term."

Cool! "My Cousin Vinnie?"

msg

That Sansui's a beautiful table.

mhardy6647

The higher end Sansui tts of that era were pretty nice. They're not terribly common, either (i.e., generally not inexpensive nowadays). That one apparently has issues. though. Based on experience with speed fluctuation on Technics tts, I'd hope that dirty speed adjustment pots might be the root cause. I didn't google to see if that model has any well-characterized 'failure modes' 40 years on. The worst case would be failure of an unobtanium IC or other proprietary (or just plain rare) board-level component. Could be mechanical, too, I suppose.

At any rate, I'd think it was a risky buy without a substantial discount from the goin' rate for an 838 (which, had I to guess, would be pretty pricey).

gudnoyez

Audio Advisor has Music Hall and Project TT Demos priced very nice they have some nice demo Phono Pre's also. I will post the link they e-mailed me if I didnt delete it already.
https://www.audioadvisor.com/mobile/prodinfo.asp?number=1MHMMF15
This one includes a phono pre if you dont have one. They have plenty of others.

halo

I like the Fluance RT82 but you may be able to find demo models or closeouts on Project or Music Hall for less. Those tables make it harder to change the cart because the headshell is fixed to the tonearm (not impossible, just harder). U-Turn tables can be a very budget-friendly option depending on how you configure them.

This is a really great option and you can upgrade this table as you go (if you decide to do so):

https://audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1REPL1PL

Tony M

You do have a lot of TTs in Portland Craig list!

I like these...for starter TTs.
https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/ele/d/lake-oswego-technics-turntable/7068394479.html
80.00


https://portland.craigslist.org/clk/for/d/vancouver-technics-sl-b2-turntable/7075032488.html
75.00

audioluvr

Ya, I have a day of looking tomorrow.

mhardy6647

So... the SL-B2 and SL-B5 are both belt drive with DC frequency generator motors; very good, basic, no-nonsense decks; ideal starter decks, IMO (FWIW)
Two issue (well...three... sort of). Note that the B5 is a "changer" -- it can be used to stack records. That's OK, but kind of frowned upon by audiophiles (then and now). See if it includes the single play spindle. If it doesn't, 3D printed ones are available on eBAY (you can guess why I know this!). The originals are hard to find.

The two "issues" common to both models:

1) Belt drive means they'll probably need a new belt. Not expensive nor particularly challenging, but something to bear in mind.

2) The B2 was my introduction to the "dirty speed adjustment pot" issue with 40-ish year old Technics tts! If the speed is unsteady (waverning), besides checking the condition of the belt, there are four (count 'em four) pitch controls that probably need cleaning. Two of 'em are obvious (on the top panel); the other two are inside. Fortunately, the service manual for the B2 (at least) is available at hifiengine. I think the B5's innards are more or less identical (at least electronically) to the B2. The B5 manual may be available too -- I am too lazy to check at the moment.

I like the price of either of those decks, FWIW, assuming they're in generally good shape.
HTH!

Tony M

I own a SL-B5 right now w/single spindle and multiple one too. I've yet to stack records but would with some of my older ones. I've owned the B2 one also. Heck, I might still have it.

Doc, thanks for the knowledge you brought on those two models.

I love that 400.00 Pioneer PL-505 TT that was posted by @jdjohn .

soundfreak1

Dont forget that the cart will make more "audible " impact on the sound than the TT or the tonearm. Spend wisely there. Also did I miss it or what is your budget?

audioluvr

Trying to keep it under $200 for a good working table to tinker with. Then maybe later on down the road if I don't get sick of it upgrade the cart

soundfreak1

For 200.00 you should be able to get a technics SL1600/1700/1800 series tt. Very good table in that price range. At that price you won't get a real good cart but as you say you can upgrade later.

mhardy6647

. . . .

pitdogg2

dromunds

audioluvr wrote: »

Trying to keep it under $200 for a good working table to tinker with. Then maybe later on down the road if I don't get sick of it upgrade the cart

Be patient and try to find a used (preferably serviced recently) auto or semi-auto table that already has a decent cart mounted on it. If you get a TT with a crummy cart you are more likely to get sick of it. Plenty of decent used TT’s out there with good carts mounted on them, some of the TT’s mhardy suggests included, you just have to be cognizant of what cart is mounted on it. But also lots with crummy carts. Of course, if you find a good SL-B2 or B5 reasonably priced you can try to get a good used cart separately such as a Nagaoka 110

audioluvr

So looks like I'm going to get this one.

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/d/portland-lafayette-4000-turntable/7074307199.html

Now I just realized that I'm going to need a phono preamp as my Belles 21A doesn't. Any suggestions for an inexpensive starter?

dromunds

That's a pretty decent cartridge on there, and if I'm not mistaken are harder to find these days. A classic in its day fer shur. I have a couple different spare external phono preamps so PM me if you want to talk more about it.

audioluvr

PM sent

msg

Your phono pre question has me starting to think a little...
I'm starting to think there are three levels of the vinyl experience:
Basic
Intermediate
Advanced

Basic - you are wise enough to recognize that vinyl is a rabbit hole. You are curious, yet still in denial for thinking you can attain pleasing vinyl experience with little money. This is a fantasy. About all you'll learn here is whether you enjoy the ritual. The sound will be worse than what you experience with digital, and you may think, vinyl sucks, no, this is not for me.

Intermediate - at this level, you realize that vinyl is indeed a rabbit hole, but you are willing to spend $500 to $1k get set up. You realize that a decent table and cart are going to cost you some money, as is a decent phono preamp. You also realize that you need some accessories to take care of your records, like a cleaning apparatus. Sound quality may or may not match digital for you. I'm betting it will not.

Advanced - This is pretty much where anyone serious about the vinyl listening experience is going to end up. I put on the brakes at the low end of this area. In my personal experience, even here it's tough to beat digital, but it's close and is enjoyable. Here you will have a decent table, a decent cart, a decent phono pre, and $200 - $800 invested in vinyl care products, if you include a powered record cleaning machine. Loosely, that's going to be $1k to $1500 on the low end. The vinyl veterans, the ones getting profound audio results with their vinyl rigs, are going to laugh at this figure and remember how cute it was when they, too, thought they could get into vinyl without much of an investment.


It's fun to play records. The vinyl experience offers more engagement and involvement than digital. Getting the record out. Placing it. Brushing it. Cuing the record. You may find it makes you relax and dedicate time to listening instead of, where, with digital, we're able to bounce around more easily, spoiled in a way.

The first time I tried vinyl I didn't last a month. Returned the table. I wasn't ready for it. Two years later I tried again. It's been a labor of love.

Hard to pick a jumping in point, though, because you don't want junk, and you also don't want to go nuts with it at this stage.

Have to start somewhere, though. Basic is a good place to start, just to see if you even like it. I hated not having a lot of records to listen to at first. Don't forget that - you'll be spending a bunch of extra money for the music if you're used to streaming. And you WILL be frustrated with the quality of new pressings. Prepare yourself, or get on discogs or find a good record shop to buy old original records. My best records are older original presses on the floppy vinyl. I have very few new records that are good pressings.

I say at this stage, get an affordable table as noted above, and pick up a very cheap phono preamp and expect to throw it away if you decide you are enjoying the vinyl experience - the ritual, as it is called - and are ready to step it up. If you like it, count on about $300 or so for a phono pre (Vincent PHO-8, Lounge LCR, etc.) I'll leave it to the other more experienced guys to advise on carts

audioluvr

Listen... Do you hear that? It's the air being let out of my ambition.

jdjohn

dromunds wrote: »

That's a pretty decent cartridge on there, and if I'm not mistaken are harder to find these days. A classic in its day fer shur. I have a couple different spare external phono preamps so PM me if you want to talk more about it.

The Shure M91ED has developed a bit of a cult following, and prices have been climbing...especially if they have an OEM/NOS stylus in good shape.

The original stylus looks like this:

And has a .2x.7 elliptical on a nude round shank.


Replacement styluses (like the one on that Lafayette) typically have dark plastic. Here is the tip of the Tonar replacement with bonded tip.

Of course the original is more desirable, and naturally much more expensive. And, it's tough to know what you're getting as far as previous wear/hours.

Anyway, I think that turntable is a fine choice

msg

Haha, hey, that's just all the stuff people don't think about up front. You don't have to do it all at once, but just so you know what you could be potentially getting yourself into.

The difference for you vs a casual listener is that you know good sound, and that ups the gear requirement if you want vinyl to match or exceed digital.

Don't get me wrong, though, it's still fun.

audioluvr

Only reason I'm thinking about the spinner thing is my uncle was a DJ for a rock radio station in the 60's and 70's. When he passed he left thousands of demo LP's behind that my cousin never uses ranging from Led Zeppelin to obscure bands that never made it. Just thought I'd be fun.

jdjohn

One thing I'll add to @msg 's comments is: don't settle for 'lesser' condition records...in the end, you will be frustrated. At this point for me, I only buy NM records off eBay, and when shopping in a used record store, I am pretty picky about condition.

Having said that, it is inevitable to have a few beater records for testing and what not, and of course if you still have your old vinyl collection from younger days, enjoy them. But don't be too impulsive buying 'new to you' records. It is easy to get caught-up in the moment and purchase a record that you *think* you can't pass up, only to get home, play it, and be disappointed.

One reason to be picky like this is: if you move up the ladder in vinyl playback equipment, you will eventually start to notice imperfections in the vinyl more and more. At that point, you'll want to buy a better copy, so just do it on the front-end and save yourself time, money, and trouble Ok, nuff said.

dromunds

Good points, jdjohn. I didn't pick up on the new stylus in the ad, and it would be a good idea to try to find out where the owner purchased the new stylus as there can be a difference in sound quality. But that could be a good negotiating item, mentioning that a "new" stylus isn't a Shure stylus and thus less desirable. Its still a very desirable cart on the collector market. As far as vinyl, if I'm buying used vinyl its always graded and I rarely go below NM for the reasons you noted. Sounds like OP doesn't need to purchase vinyl, at least for awhile, heck he may have some quite collectable and valuable stuff in his collection already. Assuming the vinyl was taken care of, which DJ's at rock stations usually did.

jdjohn

Wow, yes, that is new information on the uncle's record collection. Very nice! Might want to invest in some new poly-lined sleeves. I like the MoFi sleeves that come in packs of like 50 for $20.

LP Gear has a VividLine stylus for the M91ED https://www.lpgear.com/product/SHN091VL.html as one option, AND they even have a Jico SAS option https://www.lpgear.com/product/e007424.html if someone wants to take it up a few notches. I generally don't care for the bozo's at LP Gear, but they do have a good selection.

Scratch that...here are choices at turntableneedles.com https://www.turntableneedles.com/search.asp?keyword=m91ed I like doing business with them.

mhardy6647

Phono preamp sans headache

* The ART DJ PRE II is cheap but not junk. It's the anchor point for the low end, and it's even somewhat adjustable.

* Jim Hagerman's Bugle (2) is a (very) good, fairly inexpensive preamp. It's available fully assembled or as a bare PC board (source your own parts and DIY):
https://hagerman-audio-labs.myshopify.com/collections/phono-preamps

* Lounge Audio LCR phono preamp. A tad 'spensiver, but quite good sounding. Not to 'adjustable'.

* any 1970s stereo integrated amp, preamp, or receiver. A couple of downsides: size and age. Upsides: cheap, perhaps even free (the power amp can be muerto; all you need is a working preamp section, which should be accessible via tape outputs), good quality (since phono was the 'high end' audio source of the era).

I might even have something lurking in some dank corner that'd be willing to help a fellow addict out!