Polk Audio RTiA9 Bi Amp Experimenting

McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
edited February 12 in Technical/Setup
Hello Forum/Guys... :)
I bought a "Spare" low priced Integrated Amplifier (saving for a more $$ one later) to use in my Bi Amping learning experience.
Mr. F1 and Tony was right about the signal not reaching the two Mid Ranges and tweeter.
Thank You for the post.. :)

<><><><><><>
Guys..

1) When the Amplifier signal is going to the lower Binding Post Set:

a) Does it go to a crossover and directs the lows to the woofers?

b) What happens to those upper frequencies that the crossover is not letting get to the
woofers?

c) Is/are those "Upper Frequencies" that are ""Lost" , "burning up" anything inside?

d) Will it ruin the A9s if I only use the bottom post/woofers, and, noting hooked up to the
Top Speaker binding post? ( Using it only for the woofer).



I have been trying to "get to know" these A9s.

I bought a set of SCHIIT AUDIO SYS, MODI Multibit and Loki EQ.
That Loki EQ helps a lot to "fine tune" each song.
I have them, and, all my Pre Amps and amps next to where I sit, so,
I can adjust each song tone and volume to taste.

I read a lot about the A9's Tweeter...
I always wanted to try Ribbons..
Arriving today, is my new pair of Martin Logan LX16s.

Thanks for helping /viewing..
Alton T. :)











Comments

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,313
    You will be experiencing lobing issues if you set up your speakers like that.

    Yes, the crossover directs the frequencies to individual drivers. If there is an open in the circuit, nothing will happen. No, it will not burn anything up. No.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • deronb1deronb1 Posts: 5,094
    Honestly, just hook up ur speaks to the best source available and enjoy.
  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Hello Tom.
    Thanks for Posting.. :)
    I will go read and try to understand Lobing.

    May I ask.. What question was that Lobing answer for?
    Was it question "d", using the A9 as /for the woofer/bass only?
    <><><><><><><><>

    Quote: " If there is an open in the circuit, nothing will happen. No, it will not burn anything up. No." - Tom

    Thanks for that assuring answer. :)
    I was worried I might burn something out inside..

    <><><><><><><>
    This is what I was going read :
    Lobing - Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_lobing

    Thank You Tom
    Alton :)
  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Hello Deronb1,
    Yes,
    That is the most reasonable answer.. :)

    For some of us,
    one segment in audio, is the fun of buying and playing around with components.
    Some people "collect/acquire" , and, like to change out their stuff and/or, try different
    set-ups as part of their audio hobby/love.
    Hence, The Audio Enthusiast.

    They also support the Industry by buying many components.
    And, it is like a hobby past time, and, something to look forward to.

    But, you do offer good, practical advice.

    Alton :)















  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 14,313
    McInPolk wrote: »
    May I ask.. What question was that Lobing answer for?

    It was an answer to a question you have not experienced yet but were bound to ask later on after you hooked up both speakers the way you are describing.

    Tom

    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
  • deronb1deronb1 Posts: 5,094
    McInPolk wrote: »
    Hello Deronb1,
    Yes,
    That is the most reasonable answer.. :)

    For some of us,
    one segment in audio, is the fun of buying and playing around with components.
    Some people "collect/acquire" , and, like to change out their stuff and/or, try different
    set-ups as part of their audio hobby/love.
    Hence, The Audio Enthusiast.

    They also support the Industry by buying many components.
    And, it is like a hobby past time, and, something to look forward to.

    But, you do offer good, practical advice.

    Alton :)















    I say this because I played around with a pair rta12s, using a 200 wpc amp fot the bottoms and a Pioneer Elite 110 wpc for the tops. It performed the same to my ears as just using the amp for both.
  • deronb1deronb1 Posts: 5,094
    deronb1 wrote: »
    McInPolk wrote: »
    Hello Deronb1,
    Yes,
    That is the most reasonable answer.. :)

    For some of us,
    one segment in audio, is the fun of buying and playing around with components.
    Some people "collect/acquire" , and, like to change out their stuff and/or, try different
    set-ups as part of their audio hobby/love.
    Hence, The Audio Enthusiast.

    They also support the Industry by buying many components.
    And, it is like a hobby past time, and, something to look forward to.

    But, you do offer good, practical advice.

    Alton :)















    I say this because I played around with a pair rti12s, using a 200 wpc amp fot the bottoms and a Pioneer Elite 110 wpc for the tops. It performed the same to my ears as just using the amp for both.

  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Hi guys,
    Thanks for the advice.
    And, Thanks for posting..
    Alton :)


  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Hello guys.. :)
    I saw this video from a Danny Richie Ribbon Tweeter Video.
    Cone Filtering..
    I remember watching this.
    Learned Acoustic Lobing is also referred to as Cone Filtering..
    Here is the Danny Richie Video.
    I watch his videos often...



    Have a good night gentlemen..
    Alton < LOSER <Good News/Bad News > Happy for the arrival of the Martin Logan XL16.. > Only only One Speaker Arrives.. :o
    The 2nd one arrives tomorrow.. :'(
    :D

  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,305
    Thanks for sharing. I bet that will answer questions for someone else thinking about experimenting.


    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Hello Inspector 24, :)
    Thanks for posting..

    Another Video
    I like watching the Audio Review YOU TUBE Videos by the Audio Enthusiast.
    I like watching this Gentleman's review videos..
    Here is Tharbamar's Aperion Super Tweeter review: :)



  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,303
    *comb filtering*
    Not cone filtering.

    Anyway, on with your experimentations.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Hello ZLTFUL.. :D
    Perfect Avatar..
    I'm ignorant.. Sounded like they were saying "cone".

    My speakers must have been Lobbing around, and cancelled out the " omb".. o:)

    I found a start to what I was looking for..
    Joe M. told me he uses REW V5.19
    Watched his video. Helped immensely.

    Reading the REW Tutorial..
    Lots of good learning.
    I am looking forward to learn about DSP.

    Thanks guys.
    Alton :)

    2nd Martin Logan arrived today.
    They sound really good.








  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    edited February 23
    Hello Guys.. :)

    Here is the screen shots of the first Pink Noise test results.
    I did not set the Volume, so, was a bit loud.
    UMIK-01 MiniDSP Microphone at 40 inch height ( Tweeter level) , where I sit.
    Room is 10 x 15.
    I sit about 4 feet from the back wall.
    Polk A9s about 4 feet from the back wall. 5 feet apart.
    I listen to a Jazz Trio ( Double Bass, Piano,Drums) and set the tone controls to the "Best" settings I heard.
    Then, I do the Pink Noise Test.
    dmfni7fnkrco.jpg
    o75tk2x7u552.jpg
    DB is 87 ..
    20 Hz - 20000 Hz
    I am not sure if this is good stats, but, seems level?
    Low frequency is loud, but, that is only those deep Double Bass notes.
    and the Highs are crisp and not "piercing".

    If not the volume level being loud. Seems good, but, is this good ?


    Thanks for viewing..
    Alton T.. :)



  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 15,994
    Ask yourself, What do your ears tell you. Personally I do not listen to graphs.
  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    edited February 23
    " I listen to a Jazz Trio ( Double Bass, Piano,Drums) and set the tone controls to the "Best" settings I heard.
    Then, I do the Pink Noise Test. "


    I did , and, wanted to see how a "Graph" "saw" what I thought what my ears was "Telling me".. :)

    Yes, many times I have read and heard from watching reviews and others on the topic, of that statement about " Listening vs. Graphs".
    I am not sure if I am reading the "Graph" correctly, so, I come to ask.
    It looks "flatter" than many other "Graphs" I see that others show of their "Pink Noise" results.
    But, maybe I am wrong?
    So, I ask..
    :)


  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 15,994
    Tone controls? What's that? I've never touched mine in fact my preamp has a switch that completely bypasses them and takes them completely out of the circuit.
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,305
    Congrats on your first measurements. Welcome to the edge of the rabbit hole.

    I have no idea what I'm looking at, are the speakers normally wired here? One graph or three showing some differences?
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
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    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Inspector 24,
    Thanks.. :)
    I, too, an new to "Electronics and Sound".
    I just keep "searching", watching and reading on the internet.
    Simply,
    That is a 20 to 20,000 Hz frequency range that most speaker guys use,
    The side is the "Volume" in Db.
    Ideally, that line would be straight, if all the frequencies ( Full Range) reach the "Microphone " correctly, I think.
    I really do not want to explain, as, I am not knowledgeable , I am just learning too, and, because got all kind guys just waiting to jump in and correct me.
    The Low frequencies show a huge increase, but, for listening, it is only when the Double Bass hits those low low notes.
    The UMIK-1 Microphone cost about 100 dollars, so, it was "affordable" to see how my room "sounds: and, what changes happen when fussing around, like speaker placement, etc..
  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    edited February 24
    Inspector 24, your 2nd question..
    Yes, the speakers are wired normally.
    The Graph shows 3 color lines, or, 3 different Pink Noise " test.
    I did very minor "tweaking" with the tone controls between the three test.
    That is why they are all a bit different.

    That 3 Pink Noise Test, was with two stereo systems playing at the same time.

    Guys..

    I used a Y connector on each R/L output from the SCHIIT AUDIO DAC, to two preamp/Amps.

    One is for my IIIP Tube Intergrated Amp to my new Martin Logan XL16.
    And, the other goes to my SCHIIT AUDIO LOKI / NOBSOUND/ McIntosh/Polk Audio A9s.

    Martin Logans are about 15 inches from the back wall.
    I was thinking, all my stuff in the room absorbed the reflecting sounds?
    and, the Martin Logans just happen to be in an ideal distance to be "In phase".

    fr9lk9zntdxn.jpg

    Not all music/songs come out the same. each needs to be tweaked, but, that applies to all.
    most songs require sort of adjustments.
    Yes, I can, too, just leave everything "as is" and just Plug it in and listen".
    But, when you get that sound just right, don't you feel/listen "Much Better"?

    That is where I find the most pleasure.
    YMMV...

    Thanks for viewing.
    No need to reply or post comments.
    I just wanted to share my findings.

    I see Graphs of $$$ Speakers and.......
    If you see your speakers kinda close to those Graphs,
    Something might be happening with your tweaking.
    In a good way...

    Alton T.







  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    edited February 24
    The graph shows three different Pink Noise test.
    I did small adjustments between each test. That is why they are a bit different.

    That Graph is showing the Test with 2 stereo systems, playing at the same time..

    I have a Y connector on each R/L output of my SHIIT AUDIO DAC.
    1) One goes to my Schiit Audio Loki (EQ) > Nobsound PreAmp> McIntosh> Polk A9s
    2) The other goes to my IIIP TUBE Integrated Amp. Martin Logan XL16.

    The sound is full and clear. Bass hits with feel.
    I thought, maybe my collectible stuff was acting like Acoustic Room Treatments, absorbing the reflecting sounds.

    wpaqplvrztk7.jpg

    Martin Logan are about 15 inches from that back wall.

    I see Graphs of $$$ Speakers.
    I feel good about my room.
    Polk Audio a9s and Martin Logan XL- 16s.
    Thanks for viewing..

    AltonT.



  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,060
    Interesting room you have there.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    F1,... Jesse? :)
    I was reading some of your postings and projects..
    You are just as interesting . in a GOOD WAY. :)
    I saw your Crossover project.
    Said a lot about you. :)
    "You the Man" Jess. :)

    I did a 5 year, disconnect from everything, to learn (self searching on the internet)
    about Japan History and Culture. 100's of years of warfare.
    To understand "Japanese Sensibility".
    Fascinating" as Mr. Spock would say.. :)
    To hold a Japanese Blade that was made in the late 1500's.
    Unbelievable... :)
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,745
    Twice a year when the full moon is at it's brightest, he dons the suits of Samurai armor and sneaks around the neighborhood undetected.
  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    edited March 3
    Clipdat,
    Full moon night gatherings were a popular, when there was no Stereos or Home Theater SYSTEMS. So, they might see me. :)
    I use my NINJA outfit for those nights.

    Hey Guys...
    I was looking around, and, the next progression for POLK AUDIO RTi and B&K ST202 would be BLUE JEANS LC-1s?
    Belden 1694A because I got RFI issues?

    1) When I have no signal, I turn up the volume, I can hear static and TV and/or radio stations. Several at the same time.
    I hear people talking and Music.
    So, I believe my system is picking up ??????
    Our house is strange, and, happens when we get these Rainy, Windy, moist Weather.
    I say this, because, this happen earlier this year..
    When we had the same kind of weather conditions that we have now.

    Try watch this:
    For the first time in my life, I finally witnessed something amazing..
    Like watching Ghost Adventures.. Strange world..


    Oh yea, the BLUE JEANS INTERCONNECTS?
    Are the Belden 1694A the "Go To" interconnect for RTi and B&K?

    Thanks for viewing..
    Alton T. < Ghost Buster B)



  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 44,060
    Keep looking.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,745
    edited March 3
    For RFI issues look for a shielded interconnect cable.

    Edit: I see that the Belden in question is in fact shielded, so that would be a good place to start to see if it alleviates the interference issues you are describing.

    If your B&K amplifier accepts balanced XLRs and your preamp has XLR output, that would be an option to explore as well.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 24,913
    dmfni7fnkrco.jpg
    dcg0fb7agq0b.png

    So -- these are a little obscure(d), but if I am interpreting correctly, looks like a response butte of ca. 10 dB (?!) starting at ca. 40 Hz and extending out to nearly 200 Hz. This is the definition of a boom box (in the loudspeaker design sense of the word, as opposed to the large urban stereo tape player sense of the word). Actually, a boom box usually has a higher "Q" response peak (i.e., more of a peak than a butte).

    Now -- without knowing much more about the loudspeakers' performance (dispersion and decay characteristics, e.g.), I am working without a net* here -- but I'd expect these to sound something like the 1970-80s Radio Shack monkey coffins. :/

    _______________
    * as opposed to working without Annette, which I am also doing, come to think of it.

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 32,273
    McInPolk wrote: »
    Clipdat,
    Full moon night gatherings were a popular, when there was no Stereos or Home Theater SYSTEMS. So, they might see me. :)
    I use my NINJA outfit for those nights.

    Hey Guys...
    I was looking around, and, the next progression for POLK AUDIO RTi and B&K ST202 would be BLUE JEANS LC-1s?
    Belden 1694A because I got RFI issues?

    1) When I have no signal, I turn up the volume, I can hear static and TV and/or radio stations. Several at the same time.
    I hear people talking and Music.
    So, I believe my system is picking up ??????
    Our house is strange, and, happens when we get these Rainy, Windy, moist Weather.
    I say this, because, this happen earlier this year..
    When we had the same kind of weather conditions that we have now.

    Try watch this:
    For the first time in my life, I finally witnessed something amazing..
    Like watching Ghost Adventures.. Strange world..


    Oh yea, the BLUE JEANS INTERCONNECTS?
    Are the Belden 1694A the "Go To" interconnect for RTi and B&K?

    Thanks for viewing..
    Alton T. < Ghost Buster B)



    No such thing as a "go to interconnect" for a piece. Only one that sounds good to you.

    Seems your noisy electrical problems might be better served if you invested in a good power conditioner. Otherwise, shielded cables are a must , good ground wire can be done with some old wire attached to a chassis screw then to something solid like a water pipe. Many ways to do that.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
  • McInPolkMcInPolk Posts: 54
    Hello MHardy.
    Thanks for posting.
    Yes, I am still learning that REW Software, so... :(
    The music is good.
    I did not adjust the SPL.. Pink Noise came out super loud..

    Tony :) , Thanks..

    Was the Electrical Extension Cord. Sorry I did not,know..
    Was plugged in the the outlet with our Refrigerator.
    Sorry for not thinking to address that before I asked.
    You guys did not know that part.
    Sorry.

    Playing around with the ( Newly Found) POLK AUDIO RM1000 Sub Woofer.
    Two 6 1/2" and 10" in that enclosure. Unreal , yea?

    The B&K ST 202 Arrives today.
    New Equipment + Good Sounds = Happy Listening :)
    Thanks all..
    Alton T. :)




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