Could this be it for Betelgeuse?

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  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,616
    Well, it happened 600 years ago. You would think someone would know by now...

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

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  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 6,035
    So it may have blown up a long time ago?
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 12,505
    It is dimming a bit more now than it has in past. This might be a normal occurrence, or possibly a precursor to going super nova. Nobody knows what will happen until it occurs. Of course, whatever we see now really happened 600 years ago. Blame that on the distance of the star and the speed of light.
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  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,150
    msg wrote: »
    But you can bring it back anytime by saying its name three times.

    Ding ding ding winner… That’s what I was thinking, prior to opening up the thread
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  • la2vegasla2vegas Posts: 3,943
    No use in crying over spilled milk...
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,884
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Well, it happened 600 years ago. You would think someone would know by now...

    Tom

    Eh, maybe not. Even the fastest moving non-light radiation still only travels at light speed or near light speed so there's no real way to know if it happened or not.

    But if it did happen then the reason this is such a big deal is because it gives scientific precedence on supernova predictors. Observing this will lead to big improvements in how we view and predict such things.

    A side note, Betelgeuse blowing up is going to change non-instrumented navigational standards. It's also going to mean that any navigational principles from historic past revolving around celestial navigation practices is going to have to be footnoted to allow for the departure of Betelgeuse from the Orion constellation. Mainly because Betelgeuse and the greater Orion constellation aren't necessarily a primary navigation aid but due to the size and easy recognition of the constellation, Orion is used to identify other constellations that are used for navigational aid. With Betelgeuse gone, that will impact that capability by 50%.

    See? This is why we can't have nice things.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,616
    Hehe, John.....That was a joke. Just me and my twisted humor at work...

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

    ~ When the law ends, tyranny begins ~
    ~ Not all things that can be measured can be heard and not all things heard can be measured ~
  • JstasJstas Posts: 13,884
    Yeah, I figured it was.

    This kind of thing is just fascinating to me.

    Most people have blown it off as just another thing but, the significance of it is pretty staggering when you think about it.

    Major things are going to change when Betelgeuse blows up. We're gonna learn a whole bunch new stuff but we're also going to have to re-learn some stuff too because something our predecessors thought would be constant...isn't. That's mind-blowing, man.
    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • drselectdrselect Posts: 660
    Jstas wrote: »
    . We're gonna learn a whole bunch new stuff but we're also going to have to re-learn some stuff too because something our predecessors thought would be constant...isn't. That's mind-blowing, man.

    You mean like the speed of light is not constant?

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,774
    It is theoretically possible to travel faster than light now.
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  • afterburntafterburnt Posts: 6,035
    It is theoretically possible to travel faster than light now.

    I am still on dial up
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,774
    And Jesse still sends smoke signals to the netherworld.
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  • verbverb Posts: 8,838

    Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that @Mikey081057 :smile: Poor Orion's gonna blow out his shoulder!

    But who really knows? Lot's of speculation, debate, re-running of analytical models, you name it.

    But it would certainly be spectacular to watch! :smile:
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  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 3,802
    This is concerning given that Nova (and larger) explosions can also emit ray bursts that are potentially lethal if we get a direct hit... And the big B is many times more massive than the minimum stellar mass needed to create a black hole. If it doesn't kill us, well soon be able to witness (potentially) the birth of a black hole, and seeing that it's so close, study it with much more accuracy.

    I'm half excited...
  • verbverb Posts: 8,838
    Yep. One analytical model of the potential size of the explosion. Not to mention the burst of energy sent throughout the cosmos! :smile:
    nbuuk9jlwdjf.png
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  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 21,774
    Until the gravitational well of the black hole sucks us in...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • msgmsg Posts: 5,155
    Does this mean school will be canceled tomorrow?
    I disabled signatures.
  • verbverb Posts: 8,838
    msg wrote: »
    Does this mean school will be canceled tomorrow?

    Not quite! Who knows if we'll get a forewarning, according to the scientists. Could be a week, or a year, or more. In the meantime, finish your homework! :smile:
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  • Jetmaker737Jetmaker737 Posts: 878
    verb wrote: »
    Yep. One analytical model of the potential size of the explosion. Not to mention the burst of energy sent throughout the cosmos! :smile:
    nbuuk9jlwdjf.png

    That is actually the current size of Betelgeuse, not an explosion.
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  • verbverb Posts: 8,838
    edited January 13
    Oh thanks for clarifying! Oh dear, the size of the supernova! OMG!:smile:
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  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 12,505
    Space is so interesting and diverse, and we are just getting our toes wet in understanding it.
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  • msgmsg Posts: 5,155
    verb wrote: »
    msg wrote: »
    Does this mean school will be canceled tomorrow?

    Not quite! Who knows if we'll get a forewarning, according to the scientists. Could be a week, or a year, or more. In the meantime, finish your homework! :smile:

    Aw may'annn!
    I disabled signatures.
  • verbverb Posts: 8,838
    Yep. And this whole notion of Dark Matter and Dark Energy. Can't measure it or detect it, but something else must be out there? To make their analytical models work. Fascinating stuff for sure! :smile:
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  • verbverb Posts: 8,838
    edited January 13
    verb wrote: »
    Oh thanks for clarifying! Oh dear, the size of the supernova! OMG!:smile:

    So I did some more reading. The below excerpt describes a supernova ejecta size, and speed. Amazing!

    Supernova explosion expels much or all of the stellar material with velocities as much as 10% the speed of light (or approximately 30,000 km/s). These speeds are highly supersonic, so a strong shock wave forms ahead of the ejecta. That heats the upstream plasma up to temperatures well above millions of K. The shock continuously slows down over time as it sweeps up the ambient medium, but it can expand over hundreds or thousands of years and over tens of parsecs before its speed falls below the local sound speed.
    dtofw1yynj5v.png

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_remnant
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  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,201
    verb wrote: »
    Yep. And this whole notion of Dark Matter and Dark Energy. Can't measure it or detect it, but something else must be out there? To make their analytical models work. Fascinating stuff for sure! :smile:

    Dark matter is the stuff that exists between those things we *can* detect. Those previously thought to be empty expanses of space between galaxies/solar systems/space junk, etc etc.

    There is also speculation that “planet 9” out beyond Neptune is actually a black hole the size of a tennis ball. It would explain the following..
    That the mass required to effect the orbits out that far would mean that the size of the planet would have to be around the size of Jupiter or Saturn...or a black hole the size of a tennis ball...and since there hasn’t been a planet found, the black hole theory has recently gained some serious traction.

    Fortunately for “us”, black holes aren’t known to grow so by the time it effects us, the human race will most likely be extinct.

    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

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