Direct Electrical Line Question
Comments
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Looks to be very reasonable to me.
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Yup. Right on target. Plus beer.
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Capital idea!“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov
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I'm not Russ, but, I am an electrician. That looks reasonable. Why not run a 4th circuit at the same time. Cost is minimal doing it now.
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Where is the charge for the permit? Is this guy legit?
Also, 3 hours to install a sub panel? I take it that this includes a trip to the local strip bar on your dime.....?
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
@treitz3 I can’t imagine we’d need a permit for that work. No walls. No extra panel.
@kharp1 I was thinking the same thing. What’s your reasoning? Thanks.“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov
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Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
Cabling by Groneberg
Visuals
https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto -
Last sentence sums it up, the cost is minimal to do it now. You never know where you're journey will take you, you may not need it, but, better to add another hundred in parts, and not much more in labor, to the pot now, then have to pay 5 times that later.
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Good advice. I went from my original 3 20 amp lines to an additional 2 when I decided to purchase subs.
Much easier for me as I ran them all myself and already had a sub panel. But do consider what ifs for planning.2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Silver 4+ Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon and Hurricane Power Cables -
Call your local permit office unless you don't care. In my neck of the woods and where I have done construction, you need an electrical permit to add a sub panel. From what I understand and have heard, if it's not permitted and a fire breaks out as a result of that circuit? Insurance will not cover the loss of anything. Like I said, if you don't care (many people don't) all is well.@treitz3 I can’t imagine we’d need a permit for that work. No walls. No extra panel.
We got popped for a stop order and the inspector demanded we pull an electrical and whole house permit on Baltimore reno a couple of years ago because he spotted a romex cable hanging outside of a trash can along with a used paint brush. All we did was lipstick on a pig with that reno, no electrical, plumbing or anything. Thank Gawd the reno was already done. Baltimore inspectors just LOVE to find BS reasons to pull a permit. You can't even sneeze up there without a permit. Or three.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
We’re not adding a panel
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov
Hi-Fi
Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
Cabling by Groneberg
Visuals
https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto -
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Ed Zachary.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Maybe there’s confusion bc he doesn’t say “Add 3 dedicated circuits from existing Electrical panel”?
Or am I missing something?
In any case, I’m happy to ask him about the permit. Seems like a straight up guy.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov
Hi-Fi
Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
Cabling by Groneberg
Visuals
https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto -
This is a sub panel. In all of the areas I have personally done construction in, this requires a permit. Hence the inquiry.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Take a pic of your existing panel for me please
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Maybe there’s confusion bc he doesn’t say “Add 3 dedicated circuits from existing Electrical panel”?
Or am I missing something?
In any case, I’m happy to ask him about the permit. Seems like a straight up guy.
Yeah, you're missing something: The entire second half of your estimate.
(The third and fourth parts.)
3 hours labor @ $78.00/hr = $234.00.
$187.00 for the 100-amp sub panel. -
I think I understand what’s happening. He and I talked about the possibility of putting in a sub panel, but (as I understand it) it’s not necessary given the number of circuits a available in the current box. The two of us obviously need to get that straight before moving forward.
Too many moving parts this time of year for me to keep up. So thanks for the gut check.“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov
Hi-Fi
Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
Cabling by Groneberg
Visuals
https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto -
I expect you will have a few people chime in and recommend the larger 10-gauge wire for at least 2 circuits, if not all of them.
It may be that you only have room for 3 more circuits in your main (200-amp) panel. As myself and others have suggested, I would strongly urge you to run 4 circuits now.
Also, the 100-amp sub-panel may go a long way in eliminating electromagnetic interference and/or grounding issues. Isolating the ground from that main panel would be a great idea and now would be the time to do it. -
If you have enough amperage available in your current panel, along with the space then a sub-panel is not necessarily needed. If that is the case, then he needs to resubmit another quote for you. If he is adding a sub-panel, then you will most likely need to pull a permit.
I would advise doing this whenever you get the chance.Take a pic of your existing panel for me please
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Thanks guys. Will share (some of) this thread w him.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov
Hi-Fi
Apple Lossless --> Squeezebox Touch --> Joule Electra LA-100 Mark iii --> Odyssey Khartargo Mono Plus --> LSiM-705's
Cabling by Groneberg
Visuals
https://media.illinois.edu/journalism/ledford-charles-stretch
bit.ly/stretchonphotojournalism
http://Vimeo.com/channels/stretchphoto -
Agree with the sentiments that a permit is wise. Where I live a homeowner can pull his own permit if he's doing the work. It is an added cost, but, I believe its worth the added cost when dealing with anything electrical. It's a lifetime addition that goes with the house. I also vote for the added sub panel and full size breakers instead of twins.
I'm an industrial electrician, not a residential, dealing with mainly robot installations, so I'm not trying to upsell for the industry. It's just one of those things where the estimate as written is fair, and, not a place where corners should be cut. -
I’m a DIYer. Nor sure about a permit for DIY but NEVER cut corners on safety. Not worth losing everything, or worse, ANYONE for a few bucks.I'm an industrial electrician, not a residential, dealing with mainly robot installations, so I'm not trying to upsell for the industry. It's just one of those things where the estimate as written is fair, and, not a place where corners should be cut.
Long story short: I’m “related*” to a commercial electrician. I had him inspect (critique) much of my inside work** and in a storage building. “It passed.”
*its very complicated 🥴😂!
**troubleshooting an extremely minor***?HT ground loop.
***barely heard
I could go on but... I look forward to your “new system” review!
Tony
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
When you go into doing electrical circuits for audio, I would push two things to the top of the list...
1 - Balance the load in the house as well as possible for the normal uses between the two phases (legs). (lowers the AC distortion products)
2 - All circuits intended to run audio should come from the same phase (leg). Straddle and you're in for the buzz. (load imbalance will try to equalize through DC coupled device for sure!)
Neither thing is really about cost except, and it seems likely in this case, the using one phase for all the audio feeds causing the addition of a sub-panel. Moving things a position or two in the box to balance the load some and to get available the same leg for the audio feeds is possible maybe and the result will be worth a little effort. 9 times out of 10, electricians don't understand the need for the same leg being used.
CJ
A so called science type proudly says... "I do realize that I would fool myself all the time, about listening conclusions and many other observations, if I did listen before buying. That’s why I don’t, I bought all of my current gear based on technical parameters alone, such as specs and measurements."
More amazing Internet Science Pink Panther wisdom..."My DAC has since been upgraded from Mark Levinson to Topping."
