TSx vs. RTiA
So, this question has probably been asked in the past, but I am looking at re-doing my theater room setup. I currently have TSx500t's for the front, TSx110's for both rear surround and front height, TSx 250c for center and a DEF TECH Prosub 800 for the low end, all driven by the YAMAHA RX-A3080. I LOVE the TSx line, but I feel i could hear more detail with a modest upgrade. I would really like to stay with POLKS, so I am wondering if the RTiA line is a big enough difference to switch over to. Thanks.
Comments
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so I am wondering if the RTiA line is a big enough difference to switch over to. Thanks.
I've never heard the TSx line but I did upgrade to RTiA's from the Monitor line and it was a "worth it" upgrade.
Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
TSx line is a music/HT line, does good on both. I kinda think the are a precursor to the Signatures. TSx are a step above the Monitor line but below the Signatures. I kept looking for the TSX550t to replace my RTi8 before the Signatures came out.
RTi/RTiA are a power hungry HT speaker. With proper power they sound great in HT and decent in music. An amp is almost a must with RTi/RTiA but in the long run is worth it.
Seeing your setup I'd look at other upgrades first. Do you have a budget?
#1 would be a Sub https://www.svsound.com/products/pb12-nsd the SVS NSD are for a limited time. Depending on room and budget go for two if you can. HSU or SVS subs will add a lot more impact to your HT.
#2 would be to add a decent amp. Monolith, Emotiva Parasound Anthem just to name a few to look at. Adding an amp was a true eye or ear opener. The clarity and depth it added to the sound stage was awesomeWhen I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music -
If your looking for an excellent HT speaker, the RTI A series is it. Ran the A1’s, A3’s, A5’s, and CSI A4 with a Yamaha 2060 with no issues. I rarely listen above the 70-75 Db range, so your results may be different.
Demoed the A5’s and A7’s side by side, using a mid-range Denon AVR 7 or 8 years ago, and the A5’s sounded better. That AVR just didn’t put out enough current for the A7’s, so if you want to run with strictly an AVR, the A5’s are what you want.
In my room, the bass started struggling around 35 HZ or so, so a sub is necessary, but as most people use 80 HZ crossover, shouldn’t really be an issue.
I heard the TSx 400 on an entry level AVR, but preferred the A5’s on a similar AVR. Pretty sure the TSx were at B.B., and I had the A5’s for quite a while, so there was that difference, and of course a sub accompanying the A5’s, while the 400’s didn’t have any help on the low end.
Besides that the build quality of the RTI A line is far superior to the TSx line. This alone is worth while upgrade, if the looks of speakers mean anything to you personally. There are some seriously ugly speakers out there, so I assume some people could care less about looks. Could also mean I don’t appreciate the artistic concept or refined taste that some speaker manufacturers are trying to convey in their designs.
Been a long time since I heard the TSx speakers, and as I said they were on display and only listened to them a few times. -
So, this question has probably been asked in the past, but I am looking at re-doing my theater room setup. I currently have TSx500t's for the front, TSx110's for both rear surround and front height, TSx 250c for center and a DEF TECH Prosub 800 for the low end, all driven by the YAMAHA RX-A3080. I LOVE the TSx line, but I feel i could hear more detail with a modest upgrade. I would really like to stay with POLKS, so I am wondering if the RTiA line is a big enough difference to switch over to. Thanks.
What do you mean more detail? Are the voices muffled or something else?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The short answer is yes, the RTIA line is the better line, but....maybe we should focus on this lack of detail thing like F1NUT suggests.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Stereophile gave very favourable reviews to a few of the Smallter Rti and Rtia speakers.
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Hey, everyone. Thank you for the feedback so far. I want to address a couple of things. First, I completely forgot to mention an important part of the team, my Definitive Technology PROSUB 800. PERFECT for my modest set-up. Second, my comment about lack of 'detail' is more or less in reference to what I hear from other speaker brands such as Def Tech's or Focals or Martin Logans. I've listened to several other brands, and they seem to put forth a larger, clearer, more 'detailed' soundstage, while being driven by a similar unit as the RX-A3080. The Yamaha RX-A3080 is a beast and is the centerpiece of my system. I have been considering going with an all Def Tech set-up, but keep coming back to the RTiA line. Ideally, I would like to get the RTiA9's for the front, 2 pairs of the RTiA3's for rear surround and front height, and the CSiA6 center. Of course accompanied by the Def Tech sub. Or would the RTiA line not be well suited to the Yamaha? I appreciate the insight.
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The TSx 500 is an underrated speaker. I doubt you will find much improvement, if any going from the TSx to the RTIa line especially so for HT.AMP/Pre Pro: Outlaw 7000x, Marantz AV7703
Speakers: Fronts:LSiM 705s/ Center: LSiM 706c / Surrounds: LSim 703s
SUB: Rythmik LV12R x2
Source:OPPO UDP-203 -
If all your doing is Home Theater then the RTi/RTiA are it. Reference Theater is what the RT means, I forget what the "I" sand "A" stand for. The CSiA6 is one beast of a center speaker. RTi for music are not so great I had RTi8 for a long time, I learned to live with them for music
They do like a lot of power. I'd at least power the front 3. I wouldn't put an Emottiva with RTi speakers.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15594
or
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_973MCA325/Anthem-MCA-325.html?awcp=1t1&awcr=309977847304&awdv=c&awkw=anthem+mca+325&awmt=p&awnw=g&awug=9031265&gclid=CjwKCAiA8qLvBRAbEiwAE_ZzPRGG-bF1STrI1uXijhXzfzoT2L9kGxWmAJEqaqKjFX7N65wEM_bwoRoCcNAQAvD_BwE
or
https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PAHA31 nice price on this bad boy
Comparing the TSx to Def Techs, Martians or Focals is not fair. Those are way up the chain from the TSx. TSx are more of an entry level speaker. My LSiM would make them sound like an AM radio.
The Def Tech sub is not bad. If you can afford it maybe try the SVS. They do offer a 30 or 45 day free trial. For theater two big ported subs add a ton of impact. Doesn't hut to call SVS, very nice people to talk to.When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music -
If all your doing is Home Theater then the RTi/RTiA are it. Reference Theater is what the RT means, I forget what the "I" sand "A" stand for. The CSiA6 is one beast of a center speaker. RTi for music are not so great I had RTi8 for a long time, I learned to live with them for musicbut keep coming back to the RTiA line. Ideally, I would like to get the RTiA9's for the front, 2 pairs of the RTiA3's for rear surround and front height, and the CSiA6 center. Of course accompanied by the Def Tech sub. Or would the RTiA line not be well suited to the Yamaha? I appreciate the insight.
Actually, the Reference Theater Improved A9's can be made to perform incredibly in 2ch mode. @ken brydson can I get a witness?????
As @mrloren also mentioned, they do require power due to the massive power sucking woofers they have!! But man let me tell you, if it hadn't been for the Ka-Razy LSiM sales, I'd still be "more" than content with my RTiA set up for both H.T. and 2ch.
As the majority on this forum will agree to the RTiA's being a theater speaker first and struggle in the 2ch department, I will strongly disagree, as they can be made to blow the doors off in 2ch mode....my local pal @ken brydson came over for a listen one time and said, "let me hear this" "now let me hear this" "okay now let me hear this"...we spun CD after CD, song selection after selection and it was all there, the sound stage provided: detail, clarity, presence, depth and all that sounds good, but what it really did was give you a hunger to listen to more music
Now that's what I'm talking about!!!!Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
Second, my comment about lack of 'detail' is more or less in reference to what I hear from other speaker brands such as Def Tech's or Focals or Martin Logans. I've listened to several other brands, and they seem to put forth a larger, clearer, more 'detailed' soundstage, while being driven by a similar unit as the RX-A3080.
If you listened to the other brands *not* in your room, then it really isn't a fair comparison, IMO. You should really demo them side-by-side, in your room, with your gear. If you're not happy w/ the detail of your TSx series, I'd give some sound treatments a try to see if that helps.
When I added sound panels behind the front speakers at a previous house in late 2011, I was *hoping* to be able to hear a difference. I was actually shocked at how much better the sound was - and by "better" I mean increased detail and better stereo separation. I used the Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds at Radio City Music Hall for the initial critical evaluation and was immediately sold. Truly one of the best upgrades I've done...
^^ before
^^ during install
^^ after
Main HT:JVC DLA-RS45135" Elite Screens fixed frame, 1.1 gainMarantz SR7007 (operating as pre-pro)Emotiva XPA-1 x3 (L+C+R), UPA-7 (surrounds)Oppo BDP-103D/BDP-83Toshiba HD-XA2Panamax M5410 Pro x3Polk LSiM707s, LSiC706, 80 F/X-LS, 65-RTSeaton Sound/MCCA MFW "Turbo" + custom Dayton SA1000 sub amp (orig. AV123 MFW-15)Velodyne SMS-1I/Cs: MP 12ga/4-cond (fronts); MP 12ga (surrounds), MP HDMI (all sources), some BJC sprinkled thruoutHarmony EliteSalamander Triple 40 C/B* still need to sell older but mint gear!! -
Have you played around with the manual settings in your AVR to try and obtain the "detail" you heard in rigs in other rooms?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Totally agree, Mak. Listening to speakers in a different environment would skew ones experience. Probably comparing apples to oranges as well. Id like to add also that I would say that although a majority of my listening is in 'theater mode', I also wanted to build a system that was entirely capable of providing an amazing experience just listening to music, whether in straight 2 channel, or some other DSP mode. Since my Yamaha AVR and Def Tech sub are keepers, am I barking up the wrong speaker tree? What 'speaker system' would the Yamaha love to drive to experience both theater and music at its best, equally?
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Check out the new Legend series.
Again, have played around with the manual settings?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
@polkerfan
You've got a solid receiver - I've had many Yamaha receivers over the decades that I initially used for my apartment-based systems, though I never really got to crank it up. But the overall sound quality and ease of setup/use kept me upgrading to other Yamaha's. I currently have a Yamaha A810 for the "everyday" system for watching cable and streaming, but haven't pushed it to the limit as I have a dedicated media room for that
.
I've mostly used Polk speakers with the Yamaha receivers and have always been happy with the sound. I currently have RTi28s and CSi40 for the current Yamaha system, though will soon be upgraded to LSiM703s (rec'd last week) and eventual LSiM704c (or 706c) purchase when I find a great deal.
I think a Yamaha/Polk system's synergy is hard to beat without spending considerably more $$. And with the preouts on your 3080 you could always add a power amp to drive just the front soundstage and perhaps get improved sound quantity/detail from your TSx's. I know my own RTiA7s opened up when I hooked them to an Emotiva UPA-7, and improved even more when I bought three Emo XPA-100 monoblocks to drive the front soundstage.Main HT:JVC DLA-RS45135" Elite Screens fixed frame, 1.1 gainMarantz SR7007 (operating as pre-pro)Emotiva XPA-1 x3 (L+C+R), UPA-7 (surrounds)Oppo BDP-103D/BDP-83Toshiba HD-XA2Panamax M5410 Pro x3Polk LSiM707s, LSiC706, 80 F/X-LS, 65-RTSeaton Sound/MCCA MFW "Turbo" + custom Dayton SA1000 sub amp (orig. AV123 MFW-15)Velodyne SMS-1I/Cs: MP 12ga/4-cond (fronts); MP 12ga (surrounds), MP HDMI (all sources), some BJC sprinkled thruoutHarmony EliteSalamander Triple 40 C/B* still need to sell older but mint gear!! -
Totally agree, Mak. Listening to speakers in a different environment would skew ones experience. Probably comparing apples to oranges as well. Id like to add also that I would say that although a majority of my listening is in 'theater mode', I also wanted to build a system that was entirely capable of providing an amazing experience just listening to music, whether in straight 2 channel, or some other DSP mode. Since my Yamaha AVR and Def Tech sub are keepers, am I barking up the wrong speaker tree? What 'speaker system' would the Yamaha love to drive to experience both theater and music at its best, equally?
I demoed the TSi200s years ago in both my office and main system at home. Now, both were very simple receiver-driven setups, but I do remember that they were not nearly as revealing as the LSi7s I was using as mains at the time (no surprise): https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/84036/polk-audio-tsi100-amp-tsi200-loudspeaker-demo/p13
Def tech studio monitors or mythos (heck, even promonitors) will offer significantly more treble air, extension, and detail compared to the TSis. I would personally avoid the RTiA line as I find them fatiguing for music. A pair of LSim703s--while sacrificing bass extension and slam--would offer significantly more refined sound overall compared to the TSis. I would personally keep my eyes peeled for another sale on the 705s...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
@polkerfan
Maybe try some test/pseudo-sound panels by hanging some thick, heavy blankets on the wall behind the speakers to see if that helps any. You could use a large picture frame sitting on the floor behind the speaker and drape the blanket over it to keep it in place? Just a thought...Main HT:JVC DLA-RS45135" Elite Screens fixed frame, 1.1 gainMarantz SR7007 (operating as pre-pro)Emotiva XPA-1 x3 (L+C+R), UPA-7 (surrounds)Oppo BDP-103D/BDP-83Toshiba HD-XA2Panamax M5410 Pro x3Polk LSiM707s, LSiC706, 80 F/X-LS, 65-RTSeaton Sound/MCCA MFW "Turbo" + custom Dayton SA1000 sub amp (orig. AV123 MFW-15)Velodyne SMS-1I/Cs: MP 12ga/4-cond (fronts); MP 12ga (surrounds), MP HDMI (all sources), some BJC sprinkled thruoutHarmony EliteSalamander Triple 40 C/B* still need to sell older but mint gear!! -
YupIf all your doing is Home Theater then the RTi/RTiA are it.
RTi = Reference Theater improvedReference Theater is what the RT means, I forget what the "I" sand "A*" stand for.
RTi A = Reference Theater improved Advanced.
The obvious div between the “i” and the “A” is the closure though all speakers in both lines use the same tweeter. The less obvious: different XOs. IIRC several years ago someone detailed the RTi10 XO parts, (‘A7 forbearer) - way diff component values netting different HP/LP slopes and frequencies.
* may have borrowed from the military- M16; M16A1; M16A2
RTi A7/9*: based upon the “before and after” feedback from SO many threads on powering theses towers, I must advise have a dedicated amp on hand BEFORE you buy either. Some the more discerning have said the “sweet spot” is in the 200-250 WPC range - YMMV.
* especially the ‘9s
I think if you go w/the A6, consider a robust 3 channel amp for your LCR. From here, get your read on. This forum is packed w/what others have experiencedThe CSiA6 is one beast of a center speaker.
In closing, I’m echoing other people’s reviews/experiences concerning the RTi A speaker line. Since Day One* I’ve been privileged w/ dedicated amps on hand to drive any/all channels & configurations of my HT.
Felice Natale!, Tony.Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
@mrloren
I thought the same thing...until the LSiM706c arrived! I never noticed how close the A6's woofers were to its tweeter/port until I saw how much wider the 706c was.
Main HT:JVC DLA-RS45135" Elite Screens fixed frame, 1.1 gainMarantz SR7007 (operating as pre-pro)Emotiva XPA-1 x3 (L+C+R), UPA-7 (surrounds)Oppo BDP-103D/BDP-83Toshiba HD-XA2Panamax M5410 Pro x3Polk LSiM707s, LSiC706, 80 F/X-LS, 65-RTSeaton Sound/MCCA MFW "Turbo" + custom Dayton SA1000 sub amp (orig. AV123 MFW-15)Velodyne SMS-1I/Cs: MP 12ga/4-cond (fronts); MP 12ga (surrounds), MP HDMI (all sources), some BJC sprinkled thruoutHarmony EliteSalamander Triple 40 C/B* still need to sell older but mint gear!! -
I know the 706 is bigger than the CSiA6. I have a new 706 sitting in the box waiting for me to build a new stand for it to fit in. Using a 704 for now
How do you like the 706 over the CSiA6?When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.
Family Room:LG QNED80 75", Onkyo RZ50 Emotiva XPA3 GEN3 Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM. Main: Polk LsiM 705Center: Polk LSiM 704CFront High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT Surrounds: Polk S15 Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5
Bed Room; Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270Main: Polk Signature S20Center: Polk Signature S35Rear: Polk R15 Sub: SVS SB2000
Working Warehouse; Yamaha A-S301, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc Plok TSX550T SVS PB2000 Mini tower PC with 400GB of music -
How do you like the 706 over the CSiA6?
So far, so good. Though the last few weeks have been busy so haven't fired up the home theater system lately but hoping to this weekend.
Main HT:JVC DLA-RS45135" Elite Screens fixed frame, 1.1 gainMarantz SR7007 (operating as pre-pro)Emotiva XPA-1 x3 (L+C+R), UPA-7 (surrounds)Oppo BDP-103D/BDP-83Toshiba HD-XA2Panamax M5410 Pro x3Polk LSiM707s, LSiC706, 80 F/X-LS, 65-RTSeaton Sound/MCCA MFW "Turbo" + custom Dayton SA1000 sub amp (orig. AV123 MFW-15)Velodyne SMS-1I/Cs: MP 12ga/4-cond (fronts); MP 12ga (surrounds), MP HDMI (all sources), some BJC sprinkled thruoutHarmony EliteSalamander Triple 40 C/B* still need to sell older but mint gear!!
