PSA & FCA Merger May Happen Tomorrow

Kex

Sorry, John, I meant “mass produced”, with over 750,000 sold over twenty years, from 1934 to 1957.

By comparison, only 4,400 Cord L-29 vehicles were sold (less than 1% of the Citroën). The Ruxton only lasted a year, with fewer than 100 sold.

nooshinjohn

Kex wrote: »

Sorry, John, I meant “mass produced”, with over 750,000 sold over twenty years, from 1934 to 1957.

By comparison, only 4,400 Cord L-29 vehicles were sold (less than 1% of the Citroën). The Ruxton only lasted a year, with fewer than 100 sold.

Let me guess... Google? I get my information from years of study. I am the Rain Man of useless automotive history.

Kex

Actually, not quite. There is a Citroën fanatic in the neighborhood, so I’ve seen some of these vehicles around. I already knew from word of mouth stuff from enthusiasts that the Traction Avant and the DS were both revolutionary in several ways for their time, and I’ve ridden in both about once each! 😛

I watched the Jay Leno review for the DS for first time some years ago, and then I had to a chance to meet him in person on a shared flight from Long Beach. He seems to genuinely love the car.

I’m not much of a car collector myself. I hate all the problems that I imagine might be associated with owning a vintage vehicle. I like cars that start on the first try, with four zone a/c that maintains a constant temperature, heated seats with memorized settings, power sun blinds and CarPlay! The DS is certainly one vintage vehicle that I might consider if I were to go that route.

mrbigbluelight

. Citroen "styling" reminds one of a dog scooting its rearend across the carpet.
It may be a pedigree pooch but .....not pleasant to look at under any light.

Emlyn

Interesting to look at the top 25 selling vehicles in the US for 2020. Four were FCA products, but no Chrysler and no Dodge badges among them. The ancient Toyota 4Runner sells more units in the US than Chrysler minivans. I'm looking forward to seeing the new Jeep Grand Cherokee. Jeep could be a big worldwide brand...

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g32006077/best-selling-cars-2020/

Kex

STLA shares surge 11% on their first day of trading on the NYSE.

Emlyn

Peugeot vehicles are pretty well regarded in the UK from what I remember. They are also known for reliability, but that may be marketing. Doubt they'll be coming to the US market in the near term anyway since our market is saturated with brands already. The growth markets are in Asia anyway and they arranged joint venture capital with China.

Their placement in the Euro market is a little strange since they produce economy cars that are aimed a bit above the solely budget minded buyers (sort of like Mazda) but also near luxury vehicles (sort of like Audi). Their hybrid technology is also advanced.

https://www.peugeot.co.uk/new-peugeot-sport-engineered-508-508-sw/

nooshinjohn

While Peugeot may not get here as a stand-alone brand, some of their product line will be used to underpin several new Dodge/Chrysler vehicles. As I mentioned previously, FCA is still using 30 year old platforms from the days of Mercedes stewardship for the Charger/Challenger/300...

Kex

Seen below: Giovanni Agnelli (on the right) in 1901, founder of Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino in 1899.

The Chairman of Stellantis, John Elkann, is the oldest son of Alain Elkann and Margherita Agnelli de Pahlen. He was born in New York, and is also Chairman of Ferrari. He is a U.S. and Italian citizen.

The Agnelli family does not own any share of Stellantis directly. It does, however, own 53% of the Exor N.V. holding company in Amsterdam (NL), which in turn owns 14.4% of Stellantis. John Elkann is Chairman and CEO of Exor.

Kex

Seen below: a Peugeot 202 at the Paris Auto Exhibition in 1946.

Peugeot was founded in 1882 (but had been known since 1810 for bicycles and coffee grinders - Peugeot coffee grinders and salt and pepper mills are still sold by Williams & Sonoma).

Robert Peugeot Is a non-executive director of Stellantis. The family owns a 7.2% share of Stellantis.

mhardy6647

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

. Citroen "styling" reminds one of a dog scooting its rearend across the carpet.
It may be a pedigree pooch but .....not pleasant to look at under any light.

The SM wasn't bad.




Actually, the Mehari was kind of cute, too.

mrbigbluelight

Agree that the SM wasn't bad and actually gave hope to the masses for the future of Citroen design engineering.
Dreams that were dashed with the introduction of the Mehari (Swahili for "Me So Sorry"). 😵

Still, the SM was AOK 😉

mhardy6647

I think I'd rather have a Mehari than a VW Thing... and I do think it'd be pretty cool to have a Thing.



Heck, I wouldn't mind having a 2CV, back on topic (sort of).

Kex

The 2CV is awesome! You can literally drive it across a ploughed field! Similarly, the Méhari might not look like much, but it was a great run around for the south of France. Cheap to buy, and cheap to run. Sort of the French Riviera equivalent of a golf cart, but road worthy, and could probably drive over 60 mph.

There’s also the Mini Moke in the same vein, but that was heavier, and more rigid (so not as comfortable to ride in).

Not sure if there are any current equivalents for those vehicles in Europe today.

mhardy6647

Ahh, the Austin Mini Moke!

That's one I'd plumb forgotten (about).

tonyb

Looks like a heavy duty version of a golf cart.

Jstas

tonyb wrote: »

Looks like a heavy duty version of a golf cart.

You can still buy a brand new Mini Moke

https://mokeinternational.com/

You can even get them in electric for when Teslas aren't cool anymore.

https://mokeamerica.com/

It's the U.K.'s idea of a "beach car" which makes you wonder what's more drab and miserable, the British imagination or the British beaches or maybe both?

mhardy6647

Jstas wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Looks like a heavy duty version of a golf cart.

You can still buy a brand new Mini Moke

https://mokeinternational.com/

You can even get them in electric for when Teslas aren't cool anymore.

https://mokeamerica.com/

Well -- you can buy them again. I think (?!?) these are reboots.

It's the U.K.'s idea of a "beach car" which makes you wonder what's more drab and miserable, the British imagination or the British beaches or maybe both?

1) that is signature line material, right there.
2) based on the booklet that accompanied Quadrophenia I think you've hit the nail on the head.



3) the one (definite) non-example I can cite, though, are the Scilly Isles off of Land's End. Lovely area at the very end of the Gulf Stream.

OleBoot

Jstas

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Jstas wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Looks like a heavy duty version of a golf cart.

You can still buy a brand new Mini Moke

https://mokeinternational.com/

You can even get them in electric for when Teslas aren't cool anymore.

https://mokeamerica.com/

Well -- you can buy them again. I think (?!?) these are reboots.

Well....kinda and no. The company started out buying old decrepit Mokes and refurbishing them. But at some point in their history, they acquired the Mini Moke trademark and all kinds of engineering stuff. I believe I remember reading about it in like 2010-2011 or so? Anyway, they re-engineered the Mini Moke for overseas markets in Asia and the Caribbean as basically hotel/resort beach trams. They started selling them in like 2012-2013 and they found that quite a few people were buying them in the foreign markets and shipping them all over the place to where they wanted to use them.

By 2018 they had a completely new Moke on sale to anyone who wanted one.

So yeah, they sold "reboots" and still do restorations but they also sell completely new Mokes too.

Moke America is a company that sources Mini Mokes from Moke International and turns them into electric cars.

Jstas

I remembered where I saw the Mini Moke info. It was around 2011, on Wheeler Dealers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpU_YE2rL08

IIRC, without re-watching the whole episode, they got some parts from Moke International. The guy there gave them the story behind the company.

mhardy6647

Yeah, I had no idea 'til yesterday that this was a thing; thanks @Jstas

Kex

Update on the Stellantis merger. Mr. Tavares is already living up to his reputation.

MILAN, Aug 3 (Reuters Breakingviews) - Stellantis (STLA.MI) boss Carlos Tavares is delivering the goods.

The group formed in January from the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and Peugeot-maker PSA reported on Tuesday an 11.4% adjusted operating profit margin for the first half of the year. That thrashed a previous 2021 target of between 5.5% and 7.5%, prompting Tavares to hike his goal for the year to 10%. That’s considerably fatter than the 7.4% that Volkswagen (VOWG.DE), (VOWG_p.DE) is expected to deliver, according to Refinitiv estimates.

Given his track record, Tavares’s upgrade should not surprise. Under his watch, PSA’s adjusted operating margin rose to 8.5% in 2019 from 5.9% two years earlier. His ambitions for Stellantis go beyond that. Yet he now boasts a North American business that delivers consistent double-digit returns. Expected savings of 4 billion euros over four years will give him a further edge. Investors can sit back and enjoy the ride. (By Lisa Jucca)

Reuters: Stellantis reports earnings, upgrades forecast.