Old (Vintage) vs New Turntables..

halo

An electronics repair shop in Chicago said that Dual turntables were very complicated pieces of equipment. Like Doc said, why use 3 parts for a function when we can use 17. Not sure the complexity made them sound any better than other turntables of the day.

dromunds

Lots of people had Dual 1229's back in the day and from what I remember most liked them a lot. My college roommate bought a new one and still says it was his favorite turntable of the day. I don't remember people complaining about any problems they had with them. Beat the crap out of my Garrard Zero 100-C. Lol.

mhardy6647

dromunds wrote: »

Lots of people had Dual 1229's back in the day and from what I remember most liked them a lot. My college roommate bought a new one and still says it was his favorite turntable of the day. I don't remember people complaining about any problems they had with them. Beat the crap out of my Garrard Zero 100-C. Lol.

not exactly a high bar.

The following is strictly anecdotal! My father worked on record changers (not as a primary vocation, but he couldn't really avoid 'em) for a couple-three decades. The only ones he liked (and he liked them a lot) were the ones made by VM ("The Voice of Music"). Indeed, I grew up with a VM changer, and used it myself in my early hifi days (retrofitted with a cheap Pickering conical MI cartridge). It got the job done, and was mechanically flawless in function -- for ca. 4 decades.

Interestingly -- VM's last gasp of "audiophile" changers were ultimately commercialized as the BIC 940, 960, and 980.

Now, having said all that -- I don't know how the 1970s Japanese 'multi-disc automatic turntables' (i.e., changers ) -- ahem -- stack up to the classic Garrard, BSR, DUAL, Miracord, etc. changers. There is identically one here and it seems pretty OK, but I haven't really spent all that much time using it. Our son did, though, when he was in high school. He never complained.

DSC_6946 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Technics SL-1350

codycatalist

I picked up my Pioneer PL510 for $10 at a thrift shop, had a busted cart, still it was a steal. I use it quite a bit and have not had one issue so far...thankfully. Got it fitted with a Grado Black2 and enjoy it whenever I have the time.

jdjohn

dromunds wrote: »

Lots of people had Dual 1229's back in the day and from what I remember most liked them a lot. My college roommate bought a new one and still says it was his favorite turntable of the day. I don't remember people complaining about any problems they had with them. Beat the crap out of my Garrard Zero 100-C. Lol.

I still have a 1229Q from my dad's garage, and it is solid - nearly a 7lb platter - with great inertia. Granted, the platter bearings are not dead quiet, but also not audible while playing music. They are wonderful for high-compliance carts. Yes, these tt's usually need a good servicing to operate at their best, but they are still iconic IMO.

Sadly, I think the term 'changer' infers a negative connotation, so I try to avoid it. @mhardy6647 You are probably already aware, but VOM still has a presence at https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/ thanks to Gary.

verb

mhardy6647 wrote: »

It is an interesting topic, for sure.
Not sure if I have the gumption to watch a video on the subject but that won't stop me from pontificating on it.

There were some amazing turntables built in the olden days -- the Fairchild 750 fairly leaps to mind. But there were lots of mediocre ones built, too.

One nice thing about new production turntables is that they haven't been subjected to years of wear and tear on the moving parts.

There are certainly some nice tts and arms being made and sold today -- the good ones tend not to be inexpensive (just as always!) and there's certainly some junk being pawned off as audiophile.

I think the worst thing, though, are the passionately dogmatic proponents of the two camps. Almost every tt discussion (new or old, truth be told) on many forums ends up as a urinating contest; more than occasionally, folks' mean-spirited antics end up getting many such threads (on some forums, e.g., AK) locked

I'll stick with the advice purveyed here on CP!

jdjohn

Stay tuned! I might have a new installment tomorrow! Did I mention that I have a problem???

verb

jdjohn wrote: »

Stay tuned! I might have a new installment tomorrow! Did I mention that I have a problem???

Yes you did! I get it! Rock on brother!

Dr_Wu

I've owned a Dual 1019 for 40 years. Yes, it has a lot of parts. It must, in order to operate fully automatically, and mechanically. Yes, it has all kinds of cool, vintage vibe. But, I've finally decided to sell mine. I just got tired of fiddling with it, and waiting for the next thing that needed fiddling with. I may end up regretting it though.

mhardy6647

There's a 1019 and a 12... umm... 28?... 29? in the basement here.
The former was given to me by a dear friend of ours; found the latter at the dump.
Actually, there's a CS505 or something here, too, come to think of it... but that's from DUAL's plastic fantastic era.

Y'all do know how DUAL got its name, yes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(brand)#History

halo

That’s a lot of Dual definitions dueling it out there Mark!

Viking64

jdjohn

That Wiki needs some help. It didn't even mention the Dual moniker being an acronym for Deutsche United Audio Limited Interesting, though, about the dual power supply being the origin of the name. And speaking of origins, it totally makes sense that they started with clocks as well. I've often thought the old Dual tt's have the fingerprints of a clock maker.

mhardy6647

Pretty sure the name "DUAL" predates the United Audio distributorship in the US -- although it does seem awfully English (as opposed to Deutsch).

Speaking of origins stories -- all y'all probably know that Thorens made some pretty bitchen music boxes (starting) in their pre-rekkid playa days.
http://keithwright.ca/Thorens/Thorenspage.html

jdjohn

Another installment: Acoustic Research AR-XA turntable:

This is one of the first turntables to have a suspended sub-chassis - a T-bar in this case, suspended by three springs. Perhaps also one of the first examples of swappable headshells - these were plastic!

I need to replace the motor in this one...it is noisy, 'jittery', and requires a helping hand when starting.

A Hurst 3001-001 is the suggested replacement, but requires tapping new holes in the top plate for mounting.
Here's the underside of the tonearm section:

What do you see here? Delicate tonearm wiring, or a noisy terminal bus?

Jonah_Pierce

Why not both? New technologies definitely are a major improvement to what old-style turntables offered, hands down. But you can enjoy the apparel of a vintage turntable that comes with the latest features, only the aesthetics reminding of the old days. I'm quite a big fan of these, found this site where interesting details are discussed on classic-style turntables.
https://popular.reviews/turntable/

JGreu

mhardy6647 wrote: »

jdjohn wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

You wouldn't like my Sony, which lacks even cueing. I have to go easy on the caffeine when I want to listen to rekkids.

DSC_8876 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Hey @mhardy6647, if you'd like a cue lift for your ATP-12T arm, there is a guy on eBay that assembles and sells one.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tonearm-lift-to-fit-Audio-Technica-ATP-12T-tonearm/283663785295?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

thanks!!! I knew (well... I believed) that such gizmos existed, but I knew not the source of one.
I will take a look a the link!

Hi. I've been searching for this device! The ebay page is gone. did you have any luck? With age, my hands are shaking too much to manually cue. So I need a lifter.

jdjohn

I got one of those, and it works well. Yeah, the link and item have timed-out from eBay. I'll see if I can somehow find the seller's eBay name in my old messages. IIRC, he only made them (and listed them) on an as-needed/requested basis.