KG4 Inductor
windstriker
Posts: 138
I'm currently making new crossovers for a pair of Klipsch KG4s. I'm being forced to replace one of the .5 mh inductors because one of the leads is so short it is unusable. I will replace the .5 mh inductor on the other crossover just to match. My question is does the AWG matter or am i just worried about the mh?
Also I'm using solen caps and they only had a 8.2 ohm cap when the original was 8 ohm Im assuming this will not make a huge difference?
Also I'm using solen caps and they only had a 8.2 ohm cap when the original was 8 ohm Im assuming this will not make a huge difference?
Comments
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Just unwind enough wire to reach the hole.
Do NOT use Solen caps unless you like ice picks in your ears. I upgraded a pair of those using Sonicap caps and Mills resistors resulting in a vast improvement in the sound quality.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
well sure wire gauge matters. You also need to know what ohm the inductor in there now is to make a better decision.
Personally I'd peel off just enough to make it to be able to solder. You more that likely will not make much of a difference. You also could match it with the other. Just be sure to clean off the coating. -
Yes, the difference between 8 ohm and 8.2 ohm in a crossover can make a significant difference. I performed a mod on my Klipsch RF7 pair that reduced a resistor from 2 ohms to 1.8 ohms, and it made them unlistenable. I couldn’t change it back quick enough. If you have to, strap 2x 4 ohm caps in parallel to get your 8 ohms."Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
Fixed itYes, the difference between 8uf and 8.2uf in a crossover can make a significant difference. I performed a mod on my Klipsch RF7 pair that reduced a resistor from 2 ohms to 1.8 ohms, and it made them even more unlistenable. I couldn’t change it back quick enough. If you have to, strap 2 X 4uf caps in parallel to get your 8uf.Home Theater/2 Channel:
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anything that would make those Klipsch even a soupçon harsher sounding should be avoided like the plague. That, plus a Federal weapons permit may be required to be in possession of a pair of thus "upgraded" Klipsch loudspeakers.
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Unwinding the inductor would have been my first choice, im just not sure how to...... I will include a pic.
The interior lead is the issue.
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Cut off part of the plastic to gain access- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Hmmm well i guess i couldnt make it worse at this point. Ill give it a try.
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You want to roll it with pliers, like tearing a piece of paper- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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Yes, the difference between 8 ohm and 8.2 ohm in a crossover can make a significant difference. I performed a mod on my Klipsch RF7 pair that reduced a resistor from 2 ohms to 1.8 ohms, and it made them unlistenable. I couldn’t change it back quick enough. If you have to, strap 2x 4 ohm caps in parallel to get your 8 ohms.
The difference between an 8 ohm and 8.2 ohm cap is only 2.5%. That is well within the standard +/- 10 % and you will have to pay a premium for closer tolerances. Unless you are unlucky and get an extreme mismatch (7.2 and 8.8 ohm) I doubt you would hear a difference between the speakers.
For resister going from a 2.0 to 1.8 ohms is still within spec (10%). If this was in the tweeter circuit it might seem a little brighter (actually it would make it a little louder). But unlistenable?
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@windstriker I have an extra KG4 crossover I would give you if you need the parts. You cover shipping, she’s all yours. Love mine loaded with SoniCaps and Crites Ti domes. Let me know.Current Collection: Monitor 4a (Peerless), Monitor 5B (Peerless), Modified Monitor 7b (Peerless), RTA15TL (SL3000), SDA CRS+ (194’s), SDA SRS 2.3TL, R100's, R200’s, R300 🤩
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Thanks for the offer Jay I will let you know. If I can recover that one inductor I should be ok. I'm making a point to point crossover so I just need a little bit of lead from it.
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When you get ear fatigue from those Solen caps don't say you weren't warned.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I just had Bob Crites build me his custom crossovers with all new components. They were about the same price as if I did them myself and I didn't have to do anything except install them and throw away the old ones.
Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
I just had Bob Crites build me his custom crossovers with all new components. They were about the same price as if I did them myself and I didn't have to do anything except install them and throw away the old ones.
Lookie there, Sonicaps!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Yes, the difference between 8 ohm and 8.2 ohm in a crossover can make a significant difference. I performed a mod on my Klipsch RF7 pair that reduced a resistor from 2 ohms to 1.8 ohms, and it made them unlistenable. I couldn’t change it back quick enough. If you have to, strap 2x 4 ohm caps in parallel to get your 8 ohms.
The difference between an 8 ohm and 8.2 ohm cap is only 2.5%. That is well within the standard +/- 10 % and you will have to pay a premium for closer tolerances. Unless you are unlucky and get an extreme mismatch (7.2 and 8.8 ohm) I doubt you would hear a difference between the speakers.
For resister going from a 2.0 to 1.8 ohms is still within spec (10%). If this was in the tweeter circuit it might seem a little brighter (actually it would make it a little louder). But unlistenable?
All due respect, but I’m not talking about differences between speakers (L+R), but the changing of the crossover sound signature within each speaker.
Unfortunately (as previously pointed out), I miss-labeled uf for ohms, but I think we all know the point. At any rate, the smallest changes of values of components in crossovers makes a significant difference. That is why literally hundreds of hours go in to fine-tuning them at reputable speaker manufacturers, before a design goes into production. The 8uf cap was speced as 8uf for a reason, it wasn’t just a guess.
The change I made to my RF7 pair is documented on the Klipsch forum. It involves paralleling a 10ohm resistor to an existing 2ohm resistor in the high frequency section, effectively reducing resistance to about 1.8ohm. I found the modification changed the sound of the speaker enough that I went in and removed the 10ohm resistor from each crossover. Maybe unlistenable was a bit harsh, but nonetheless I found it highly dissatisfactory.
"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
When you get ear fatigue from those Solen caps don't say you weren't warned.
Fair enough, I will keep it in mind. For now I already have the Solen caps. If I do find them to fatiguing I will swap the 3 and the 8 out with sonicaps, keeping the 33 solen shunt cap.
Honestly right now my 2b's are my mains. These kg4s where a bargain($80 Decent condition) and where meant as a secondary more experimental pair of speakers.
I wanted to hear what klipsch sounds like and whether I would want to get a heritage speaker at some point (excluding heresy) I also thought i could use it to eventually see what tubes sound like. Switching out caps and hearing the difference works towards that goal of see how components can change the sound.
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I have no doubt that according to engineers an 8 uF cap is the optimum spec. But what does that mean in the real world? Many electrolytic caps have a tolerance of +/- 20% (10% is the typical spec for resistors). So that means when you buy an 8 uF cap what you actually get is something anywhere from 6.4-9.6. Better electrolytics are +/- 10% and I don't know of any manufacturer that uses elecrolitics accurate to +/- 2.5%. Get a tester and test some new caps, even expensive ones. If you have one testing at 8.0 and the other at 8.2 consider yourself lucky and call it a matched pair.
Upgraded film caps are usually better (and more expensive). I believe Sonicaps are +/- 5%. So even if you bought two of them the difference between 8.0 and 8.2 is still considered normal. You can pay extra to get matched pairs at 1% but this is usually done by the vendor matching the stock they have. No mass produced component uses anything close to that. -
And a thermister (polyswitch) as well it appears.
@delkal
Sonicaps are listed as better than 5% yet what you state is very true for most. In my conversations with Jeff at Sonic Craft he stated most sonicaps are routinely about +/-3% so that would fall under better than 5%. Either way going from electrolytic's to film caps the film will be much closer tolerance all in all. -
I have no doubt that according to engineers an 8 uF cap is the optimum spec. But what does that mean in the real world? Many electrolytic caps have a tolerance of +/- 20% (10% is the typical spec for resistors). So that means when you buy an 8 uF cap what you actually get is something anywhere from 6.4-9.6. Better electrolytics are +/- 10% and I don't know of any manufacturer that uses elecrolitics accurate to +/- 2.5%. Get a tester and test some new caps, even expensive ones. If you have one testing at 8.0 and the other at 8.2 consider yourself lucky and call it a matched pair.
Upgraded film caps are usually better (and more expensive). I believe Sonicaps are +/- 5%. So even if you bought two of them the difference between 8.0 and 8.2 is still considered normal. You can pay extra to get matched pairs at 1% but this is usually done by the vendor matching the stock they have. No mass produced component uses anything close to that.
The film caps that I use (and measure before I use them) most always measure to within more like .5%. If you are (re)building crossovers and you are not measuring each cap and resistor before installing it, you’re doing it wrong.
Just my opinion..."Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
And a thermister (polyswitch) as well it appears.
@delkal
Sonicaps are listed as better than 5% yet what you state is very true for most. In my conversations with Jeff at Sonic Craft he stated most sonicaps are routinely about +/-3% so that would fall under better than 5%. Either way going from electrolytic's to film caps the film will be much closer tolerance all in all.
I've taken the polyswitch out of the crossover entirely. This shouldn't be to big of a issue right? Reading so many posts about polyswitches on these forums has given me a phobia when it comes to them. I don't crank the volume very much, though i could always get a poly or resistor.
Side note from my research the kg4's originally didn't have polyswitches. They where only put in after Klipsch had to keep replacing tweeters under warranty.
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They're nasty. On most SDA's we use a .5ohm 12watt resistor in it's place.
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windstriker wrote: »When you get ear fatigue from those Solen caps don't say you weren't warned.
Fair enough, I will keep it in mind. For now I already have the Solen caps. If I do find them to fatiguing I will swap the 3 and the 8 out with sonicaps, keeping the 33 solen shunt cap.
Honestly right now my 2b's are my mains. These kg4s where a bargain($80 Decent condition) and where meant as a secondary more experimental pair of speakers.
I wanted to hear what klipsch sounds like and whether I would want to get a heritage speaker at some point (excluding heresy) I also thought i could use it to eventually see what tubes sound like. Switching out caps and hearing the difference works towards that goal of see how components can change the sound.
The KG4 sound isn't like any other Klipsch, so if you like them I doubt you'll like their others.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have no doubt that according to engineers an 8 uF cap is the optimum spec. But what does that mean in the real world? Many electrolytic caps have a tolerance of +/- 20% (10% is the typical spec for resistors). So that means when you buy an 8 uF cap what you actually get is something anywhere from 6.4-9.6. Better electrolytics are +/- 10% and I don't know of any manufacturer that uses elecrolitics accurate to +/- 2.5%. Get a tester and test some new caps, even expensive ones. If you have one testing at 8.0 and the other at 8.2 consider yourself lucky and call it a matched pair.
Upgraded film caps are usually better (and more expensive). I believe Sonicaps are +/- 5%. So even if you bought two of them the difference between 8.0 and 8.2 is still considered normal. You can pay extra to get matched pairs at 1% but this is usually done by the vendor matching the stock they have. No mass produced component uses anything close to that.
Fortunately, we don't have the concerns most speaker manufacturers have with availability and price points, so we can use the exact values the engineers specified to obtain the best performance possible. After all that is the main point when upgrading audio gear.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
That was a stock photo. You can order them with or without the polyswitch. Mine are without.Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
What did you think of the changes the new crossover made?
I've been on the fence with them and I'm hoping this will push me over on the like them camp.
Cant wait to get time to finish the job. -
I dynomatted the horns, upgraded the binding posts and wiring at the same time so I couldn't tell you what just a crossover upgrade only would do. Probably a significant improvement by itself though. I did the same upgrades to my Forte's and the KG4's are smoother, image better and have better bass (which shouldn't make any sense).Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
I just finished recapping my kg 4. They still aren't really clicking for me. I am a bit frustrated with them. If anything they are making realize(even more) how ****ing amazing my sda's are. I'm going to give the crossovers some time to burn in and try a few things such as different receiver and or room. But if I cant figure them out I will probably just release them back out into the wild.
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So, you shouldn't have used Solen caps to begin with. Secondly, it takes a few hundred hours for new caps to burn in. Therefore, don't pass judgement until they get 200 hours on them.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I bought a pair of new kg4’s in 1986 .....
Thought they were very good - especially for 500 bucks ...
In 1988 or so , I bought a pair of SDA 1c’s .....
From that day on , the klipsch’s never got much attention.....
Finally sold them a few months ago ....
Absolutely no comparison between 1c’s and the kg4, to my ears .....
Of course , the 1c’s were 3 times the price of the kg’s......
However, for the 500 they cost back then , they were fantastic speakers ...
There’s a reason they still command a high price -relative to original cost- on the used market 30 years later ....
I just never cared for the horn tweeter once I had been exposed to the 1c’s ....not very “crisp” - muddled , to my ears .....
Now I’ve fallen in love with Raal ribbon tweeters .... liquid , airy highs ....sublime
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