Polk going downhill?

exalted512

Im not sure of how many of you other guys in here frequent some of the other car audio forums on the internet but if you have, youd notice Polk is not exactly recommended as openly as they are here
in fact, ive even seen posts as ridiculous as "id rather run no speakers than polks"
wtf?
people are really retarded sometimes and frankly it pisses me off
now there was a time when polks were ridiculously over priced
im talking JL overpriced here, and those of you who frequent here know how i depise JL's pricing
that was when the momos first came out
the ones with the red center caps and the components were the ones with the really big clear crossovers
later this was explained as "tooling" costs
whenever you make a new line like the momos there are certain costs that come along with that
which makes sense
but if i recall they retailed for $400
come on guys--thats way to expensive...
i thought i was getting a good deal on crutchfield...i picked up the orignal mm120s for $280 a piece
now i had heard these before in a sound room--im pretty sure this was before polk was being sold at CC
i was really pumped...i had heard them and at the time i thought they were worth the money...
it also came with polk computer speakers(it was a deal from crutchfield)
2 satellites and a small sub)
well, i was a little disappointed
these speakers were worth about $200 IMO
certainly not almost 300
but wait
i didnt break them in right
cracked the spyders on not one but BOTH of them
so i sent them back
at the time--many people were breaking tinsel leads on them but polk never recalled them
by this time the newer mm124s had come out
i talked to Kim Jasper...hes a really great guy to deal with...he actually told me to send them directly to him with ATTN: kim jasper on the label
he used to frequent this forum everyday about 3 years ago but since the forum has grown in popularity his presence is scarce if that...but im sure he is a very busy person, im not knocking him at all
anyway
so i get my new mm124s
this was about the time when the recall for the mm124s came out
the glue was coming unglued and the speaker was hitting the grill
well...my speakers were hitting the grill
i sent em back
now i have my present subs
they hit the grill
or used to anyway
polk needs to go back to the drawing boards on their grills
another complaint ive heard about Polk
if this would have happened to me i wouldve been PISSED
but heres the story
polk had just ended their DX line
the GNX line had "replaced" the DX line even though the DX was a FAR superior speaker
people would come on this forum asking about returning their DX subs because they had blown or whatever
polk said they could not give them DX speakers back because they had been discontinued, but they would send them back the GNX speakers...
heres the kicker though...Polk was STILL SELLING THEM THROUGH THIS WEBSITE
im sorry Polk--but thats ****
people on other forums combine Polk and Circuit City
as in Circuit City sells Polk so they must suck...
thats one of the most retarded arguments ive ever heard of in my life
but ok
the same person also recommended alpine type-r's
hmmm...circuit city sells those too jackass
that was on caraudioforum.com
thats why i hardly ever post on there...because of moronic people like that
he wasnt the only one...there are many...im reminded of the Dilemma thread here...the guy with the s/n DelvryBoy still talks ****
anyway
back on topic
a recent thread has asked Polk to relive the DB days
why not?
and another thing im getting tired of is MOMO
do you really need MOMO to be flashy?
i mean sony Xplod...doesnt cost them any extra
Pioneer Premier
Kenwood eXcelon
etc.
i say, get rid of the MOMO, drop the price 15%
call it Polk HiLine
make it silver and red and blue or whatever color you want
i like the new Db speakers...i really do
i think they are really good speakers at a pretty good price
i would always like to see a 5-10% price drop...but hey...theyre still competively priced
im not going to mention amps...ive had no experience with them so im not going to touch that subject...although the price does seem high
if you talk to some people who really know what theyre talking about will all tell you the MM(mobile monitor) and DB series were really good
you talk to the same people and they will tell you the MOMO line is overpriced
i would like to see the return of the DX series
but make them on the level of JBL's GT series
its a downgrade...i know
but have the DX series as your low line, the DB series as the next up, replace the momo with HiLine(or whatever), make them a little more reliable and MAKE THEM ABLE TO BE PORTED--this 40 hr. break in period is pretty odd as well..., and then have your high end line that you guys have been talking about
have em retail at $549.99
make em available at CC or wherever for like $449.99
internet like $379.99 or so
make em GOOD
with nice adjustable crossovers...crossover size doesnt matter
make it a 2-way set
give them really great off-axis response and a 150watt RMS power handling
the Adire Kodas are supposed to have really great off-axis response
Josh said you had a brahma, do you have a set of the Kodas as well?
make the tweeter very smooth and extremely detailed
i would like them to be CRYSTAL CLEAR at 150 watts
Polk was in a slump when the MOMOs first came out
since the price drop, its gotten better, but not totally IMO
learn from your mistakes, drop MOMO
Polk is a great speaker, but people arent going to give them the time of the day until there is either a noticeabe price differenece or a noticeable difference in SQ...or even better...a noticeable difference in both!
ok thats all...what do you other guys think?
what about you at Polk?
maybe if were really lucky we can talk to Al@Polk again
-Cody

MacLeod

You make a lot of sense partner. MTX gets a lot of bad press as well. Their amps are just awesome and Ive never seen anything but stellar reviews in magazines and websites yet theyre contiusouly poo-pooed on other forums. Maybe its because they are sold at CC also. Myself, Id put an MTX up against pretty much any amp out there. And if someone chances upon an amp that sounds a little better than we will just throw both of them out a 5 story window then see which one still works!!

I really like the looks and performance of the Momo line myself and will be very proud to have the MM6's in my rig. I have the Momo 6x9s now and they are as detailed and accurate as any speaker Ive ever heard! Thats damn impressive. So if the 6x9s sound great then the components will sound twice as good I would think!

I do however think they should drop the Momo from the name. It makes me think of Audiobahn and the like all trying to identify with the 17 year old, pants around the knees, white suburban punks trying to talk like Snoop Dog, bed wetters with their 0.3 liter engines and 7" diameter exhaust pipes crowd! (phew) I would say keep the Momo line just as they are but drop the Momo crap from them and just call em something like Reference or Classic or something like that. Anything but Momo. You dont see MB Quart, Dynaudio or Focal with fancy, flashy flames shooting out of their speakers do ya?

So what I would like to see would be this:

Keep the DB line exactly as it is. Its one of the best speakers in the world on a dollar to dollar comparison. They look great too!

Keep the Momo line exactly as they are in looks and performance just drop the Momo line. Let Audiobahn be the choice of the teeny bopper, hip-hop crowd! Let Polk be for the audiophile crowd.

Make a premium speaker that would go for around $400-500 and make it something to compete with Quart and Focal rather than Alpine and Infinity. This will change peoples perspective on Polk Audio and maybe they can start building the respect they already damn well deserve!

Yeah! Long live Polk Audio!! Damn Im fired up now! I wanna go kick somebodys ****!!

And by the way, I dont see anything wrong with selling stuff at Circuit City....hey what are you looking at? You want some?

bknauss

1. If anything is sold at CC or BB, its going to be thought of as crap. Why? Just talk to the kids that are trying to sell the stuff.

2. I haven't owned anything Polk since I got some DX9s about 3 years ago. Great little speakers, but I've moved onto bigger and better things since then. But this presents a problem... how many guys looking to make a great SQ stereo even THINK about getting Polk? I know I didn't. How many competitors out there use Polk? Only Jose Perez comes to mind. I know the majority of people don't use competitors as research for a product, but then again, how many people would buy a Pioneer P9 combo if so many competitors never used it? DLS only has only a handfull of distributors in the US and has only been in the states for a couple years, but run over to carsound.com, look at the forums, and see how many people are talking about DLS. Send an email to Scott Buwalda and ask how much DLS stuff he has sold since he became a dealer in the winter. People are paying for a $800 set of 3-way components among other high end stuff.

The home lines have a large priced line, why can't the car line have a high priced line?

3. I don't mind the whole Momo thing. I wouldn't be super sure that the name makes the speakers more expensive unless I saw the accountant's files. Momo also is a well respected company, so I wouldn't compare this line with say... JVC's P Diddy line or something like that.

I think everything else has been covered in enough detail.

exalted512

just because they sell them at circuit city or best buy doesnt mean its crap
to me, thats a very limited way of thinking
i mean i get where youre coming from--i just dont agree
in fact, i think its pretty narrow-minded
polk isnt a high end speaker by any means
its the mid line budget stuff
thats why you dont see them in any competitions
theyre not made for it--
you agree that the DX were great speakers--they are--not competition worthy but great SQ speakers for the price
many people run alpine head units
alpine can be bought at circuity city...ppl dont think theyre crap
and i would have to disagree with you on people not using competitors as research for their products
you kind of have to
even chris(geolemon) said he used the W7 as a benchmark
studying the competition has a lot of benefits IMO
ive never heard of DLS
ill have to look into it
im going to be getting some 3-ways in that price range in about a year
polk audio was made on their HT stuff
which may be in part why the car audio line is so small
-Cody

neomagus00

cody - i see where you're coming from on the momo name issue, but i've tried to see it from what polk's perspective might be. as mentioned, polk doesn't have great name-recognition for a quality product like, say, focal has. stick on the momo name, and suddenly you link the two; way more people have heard of momo than polk, and what comes to mind when you think momo? "quality" is the first thing i think of. so from a business standpoint, i would think that, for polk as a whole, the recognition outweighs the, whatever, 15% price increase, assuming such an increase actually exists.

again, looking at it from a different point of view - selling at cc or bb is the same thing, getting the product out there. yeah, some people may see that as a reason to equate polk with audiobahn, but think of the number of people that hear polk at cc or bb every day... there's a lot of people moving through those stores, and the product speaks for itself (as it were...). even with the negative influence of the incompetents that staff the place; polk costs more, and they're probably going to try to sell the higher-priced stuff.

along the same line, who do you think the biggest car audio crowd is? certainly not the true audiophile -- it's the i-wanna-be-heard-down-the-street, pants-around-the-knees, 7-inch-exhaust kids that make up the majority of sales; it just makes financial sense to target them.

this is where the high-end line comes in. to mention focal again, nearly everyone that's heard of them knows that company to produce a quality product. why can't polk bridge that gap? the lower end lines, db and dx, are targeted towards the loud crowd (maybe with the momo name on these lines?), sell these in bb and cc; then the upper end, the theoretical "HiLine" series, can be higher-priced, maybe sold only through polk directly (way less volume), maybe put in a competition car - cause i for one actually do look at what they use - if they win, it has to be for a good reason, namely their equipment. let this line advertise itself; if a person truly wants a good product, they'll spend the time looking for it, and then they'll find the HiLine (or whatever). i personally cannot vouch for the 'value' of a particular line, because i don't have enough experience and because i prefer to buy the top line of something rather than a middle line.

granted, the divergence of the lines must also be a financially sound decision. either no one at polk has considered any of what's been mentioned (by all of us), or they've determined it to not be a money-making proposition, or they simply haven't gotten to it yet. none of us know, so perhaps this is a good place for a polk person to chime in? if they're willing and able to share some of this info, and their opinions on the above?

cody - one last comment. you said that "polk is not a high-end speaker by any means"... i'd have to disagree, based upon my admittedly limited experience, and put it in the middle-end segment, probably near the top of that. they do sound great, at least the momo stuff does, and it is, compared to the true high-end stuff, a great price. this is why i didn't touch much on price in my essay, cause you can't compare apples to really really shiny apples.

exalted512

i consider polk to be in the middle range, not high end
i mean dollar for dollar, polk is a good buy, but the lines they have now simply dont compete
there are much better subs out there
the brahma, titanium, w7, ****, 9915, a series are the main ones now
as far as components go...
diamond audio, focal, dynaudio, viper, JL...the list goes on
those are high end
polk is the high end of the midgrade stuff IMO, not any higher
and i see where you are coming from with the momo name recognition...but truthfully...how many kids out there know the name MOMO?
not many
the people who they are advertising to have no idea what MOMO is
which is why i say drop MOMO
polk can make a stylish speaker all by themselves, its not that hard
-Cody

neomagus00

okay, i see where you're coming from. maybe it's just who we know - everyone that's into their cars around here has heard of momo. and yeah, "high end of midgrade" was the phrase i was looking for. certainly polk doesnt make the best of the best, but it does make better than the majority IMO.

on an unrelated note, you mentioned the "a series" as a "much better sub"... you wouldn't be talking about eD's a-series, now, would you??

TrappedUnder Ice

Sadly speaking...when doing both of my cars....I never even thought of Polk audio in them. I ran some in late 80's early 90's...but that is where it ended. There really is nothing wrong with Polk car audio...but like someone said...too many other choices out there for the price or cheaper that will out=perform polk. Dont get me wrong ..install is everything..however ever speaker has its own charactoristics...

geralopez

If somebody wants to know who really is MOMO in the world, take a look in their web page:

http://www.momo.it

Look around in detail into this web page, you will see who is using their High-End stuff (like Michael Schumacher a F1-Driver).
If you get the time to see everything you will find nothing about Polk stuff but only a few things like this (the answer why POLK is merged with MOMO brand) -see the picture bellow.
You can find this info following this route:

http://www.momodesign.it/eng/home_eng.html
then:
MOMO DESIGN > BUSINESS > LICENSES > CO-BRANDING
(it's a flash presentation).


Maybe POLK doesn't need any helper to support their brand in USA but if they want to go to Europe... mmmm
I think, POLK did the right decision adopting MOMO as co-brand to offer their products in Europe.
Ppl from any country of Europe prefer their local brands and many of them doesn't like American stuff.

-GLopez

geralopez

.

exalted512

Polk puts the MOMO name on their subs, why doesnt MOMO put the Polk name on their cars? hell, thatd be pretty awesome to see a polk audio sticker on a F1 car
and neo--yeah, youre right, i am talking about the ed series, i never said i would buy one though, i read a pretty funny thread about them yesterday but i forgot where it was, ill see if i can dig it up again
and to my original question:
polk is not going downhill, but theyre certainly not going up the moutain either
-Cody

neomagus00

wow, i didnt even think about overseas markets. i can see why f1 cars don't have polk on them... think about who advertises which products. car audio competitors brand their cars with their stuff, and f1 cars brand their cars with their equipment (and their primary sponsors... HP for example...). financial sense i guess. i would say that even sponsoring a vehicle like that wouldn't make sense for polk, not from a cost:benefit standpoint.

i cant comment on the progress of polk, unfortunately.

bknauss

Originally posted by exalted512

and i would have to disagree with you on people not using competitors as research for their products
you kind of have to
even chris(geolemon) said he used the W7 as a benchmark
studying the competition has a lot of benefits IMO

-Cody

People like you and me will definitely look at what competitors are using, but how many magazines highlight competitors anymore? Its more of the "I've got bling bling out the ying yang" installs in magazines anymore. Its sorta hard for the kid who is just starting out with audio to research this stuff when the easiest means of seeing car audio stuff (other than the internet) doesn't even show what the real SQ guys are using. I was shocked to see Scott Buwalda's install in ME a couple of months ago. Its VERY basic with only fiberglass to reinforce the rear deck for his subs. BUT... who was on the front cover? Tera Patrick on her man's lame Hummer. Its also hard to emulate all of his system since he imported Pioneer P9 stuff from Japan.

Thom

I don't see how anyone could think we're on the way down, does anyone remember GXR/ EX3/ GNX? The new db and Momo carbon series lines kick the crap out of those lines. The Momo classic line is a bit dated and won't be around forever, don't worry. We've got plans for quite a few things but it's too early to reveal them. Everything mentioned above and much more is considered when trying to determine where we're going. Over the years people come and go and what's important changes with them. Over the past couple years we've got people who really care and who really want to improve the brand as a whole. This takes time. If we want to make a $400, $500, or $5,000 set of speakers or sub it doesn't happen in a few months (or even a year). The new db and Momo carbon series were being designed and tested as we were listening to complaints about the products we had at the time. It couldn't get to market fast enough. But we still ended up being months later than planned because we needed to make sure we got it right. I wish we had new high end stuff tomorrow but it's not going to happen. Just know that we are working on it.

CC moves a lot of product and doesn't seem to do much for anyone's reputation even though a lot of the trash talking isn't justified. There are dumbasses everwhere- I've been in independent shops where the guys knew nothing (I even worked at one). CC will be carrying a very limited selection of our speakers, and we've got another big customer who'll be picking up the rest.

As far as our current products being overpriced, I just don't see it. At our price points who's giving you more? And I'm not talking about internet "whoringtransshippingcaraudio.com" prices. Actual manufacturer MSRP whether the company tries to enforce their trans shipping policies or not. Everyone's got the same policies but almost no one enforces it. A product that lists for $100 is only worth $75 over time because it can be found any- and everywhere for practically dealer cost. Some forums even have guys that spam every thread that mentions a certain brand they have access to. These companies will have problems in the long run, no matter how strong the product. We recently ran an A/B test for some visitors we had with our new MMC6500 components (based on the MMC650 coaxs) vs. a set of $600 components from someone else. Some people liked ours better, some liked the others better. Everyone has a different opinion of what good sound is. They all agreed (and some even said ours should cost much more) that at half the price we're offering WAY more value to customers.

We're not chroming everything or picking bright, obnoxious colors so I don't understand why people think our stuff is over- styled. I think it looks great, better than anything we've ever had and better (or as good) as most stuff out there. In an OEM application (behind stock door panels) the carbon fiber cones don't draw any more attention to themselves than a black plastic cone would. If you don't want to show them off, don't. Throw the grill away. A shop near my house carries our line and they've got stacks of Momo grillls around because most of their jobs are drop- ins. But they've also done more than a few installs where they show off the speakers with custom door panels.

Install plays a big part in any install. At '02 IASCA finals I tied Ryan Chin in the Sound section of the scoresheet. I had our MM6 mids, Vifa tweets from home stuff (just to be different), and a single MM124 sub with Zapco Reference (the cheap stuff) amps. Ryan had Zapco comp. amps, Focal front stage and ID subs. My amps were a lot cheaper and the speakers were WAY cheaper yet we tied on sound. Ryan tied for 1st in his class at finals the year before and he's won a bunch of shows, so his truck is strong. But just because I've got stuff that doesn't cost a few thousand dollars doesn't mean I can't sound just as good. I've heard systems that make W7's sound like **** and I don't understand how they do it. Obviously they have to work harder at it than with cheaper stuff, but they pull it off. IASCA isn't the best place to market products (it used to be). As mentioned above SQ cars hardly get features anymore but years ago almost every featured vehicle was a competitor. When I was getting into this I bought JL, PPI, and Quart because that's what all the winning competitors were using. If I used prodcuts that got features in mags or on TV nowadays I'd most likely have AudioBahn. Good thing I got started when I did. Lots of SQ guys are "snobs," or at least that's the stereotype. Many won't let people listen to their car at shows, some don't even open them up. Some even have stickers for companies whose product they don't even use. If you can win in SQ competition it does speak highly of your product, but more so of your tuning skills. Most guys are running the same handfull of products and only one person wins in each class.

bknauss

Thom, thanks for the post. I think all of us, including me, do need a bit of a reality check. I know I shouldn't have sounded like "high priced" and "quality" go hand in hand. I built some home speakers with mid-level Vifas and Peerlesses, but I have a feeling I could A/B test them with just about anything at a Best Buy or Circuit City and have them beat in the SQ department. All this for about $200 of parts for the two speakers. DIY speakers are a whole other bear to deal with since you can't truly compare the price of DIY speakers vs. something you buy prebuilt. Apples to oranges. Anyway, I don't think anyone on here can say the speakers aren't worth the money. $180 for the old Momo 15" on sounddomain? That's almost dirt cheap. I would like a 2 ohm version though....

An install and tuning DEFINITELY makes or breaks a system. Heck, doing something simple like sound deadening doors can change the reaction from a cringe at high enough volumes to a big smile. That has happened with my current install. Also, by simply playing around with the EQ and time correction on my head unit, I was able to make the image fairly precise over the center of the car instead of smearing across the car, and was also able to the sound a lot more clean overall. You can go out and buy an insanely expensive processor with features out the butt, but if you don't know how to use it and use it correctly, its going to make the system sound like butt.

If you hit up most forums these days, seems like most of the big names are going downhill. MTX, PPI, etc. Are these claims true? Beats me... send me their products and I'll test them out

As an example of how much magazines have changed over the years, check out this:
http://www.termpro.com/showcars/terminator/ca1096.html

This was my first car audio magazine I ever picked up. That definitely got me amped up to make a killer install. Something about 12 LCD screens and a PS2 being considered a system just doesn't seem right.

exalted512

when i consider a product to be good, as i have said before, you HAVE to take into consideration price
i mean really, at the right price, i would consider every product good
so just because the DB speakers sound better than the dx3s, that doesnt mean theyre better in terms of bang for buck
i think JBL's GTO subs are awesome
no where near a ID max which i also consider a great sub, but for the price, its hard to beat
i think the DBs are a great product...sound great, great price...two thumbs up:)
the GXRs should never be mentioned again...lol
and really...who pays MSRP anymore?
no one
unless youre stupid
im not talking about "whoringtransshippingcaraudio.com" either...lmao
im talking about actual authorized dealers though
i try my best to compare speakers on the same site but sometimes i cant find anyone who has both
case in point:
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/POLMM104
$220 for a 10" mm104
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/PHORTI10D
$80 for a PG titanium
the subs are my biggest complaint about polk
the DBs are priced really great
i think the MOMO comps. need to be dropped to about $225 though--but i dunno....they have damn good power handling
i guess i could see the $300 price tag(sounddomain)
id like to see the tweeter built up a little and a little more clarity
my tweeter distorts before the mid does
and yes, there really are dumbasses every, not just circuit city...the guys at "specialty" shops only know the stuff they carry--well...usually
what i would like to see in Polk's sub is for them to be able to be PORTED
and DVC models, which i believe someone mentioned they are coming out with DVC models...good
maybe someone will finally be able to use the c500.1 and be able to power the subs correctly
i dont think youre stuff is over-styled, i just like plain back speakers, but your speakers do not look bad at all
but i think polk is perfectly capable of making them look good with a 1.5"x2" symbol that says MOMO on the "lower" momo subs
can you tell us when you plan on moving to the other store?
congradulations on the competition
good job:)
install really DOES make or break a system
and i can understand why the hardcore SQ guys are snobs...to an extent
i mean thats how they get money...but ive dealt with a few SQ guys before who were ****
i didnt start this thread to bash polk
on other forums im the first to defend them, all my speakers minus the 4x6s are polk
if the momo 4x6s wouldve been out, i probably wouldve grabbed them-but they werent so i got eXcelons
i started it to see what people would and wouldnt like to see in Polk for the future
i would like to see ported subs with DVC options
i would not like to see momo
any other suggestions out there that havent been mentioned yet?
-Cody

neomagus00

Originally posted by Thom
I wish we had new high end stuff tomorrow but it's not going to happen. Just know that we are working on it.

cool, that's all i needed to hear . innovation is always good, even if it takes a long time.

There are dumbasses everwhere

agreed... case-in-point, my first installers

...I don't understand why people think our stuff is over- styled. I think it looks great...

i second that, i think they look great, yet not flashy

Install plays a big part in any install

lastly, pricing. i assume that polk does all that they can to keep prices down and still keep a level of quality commensurate with the polk name, so i've got no complaints here. you get what you pay for - for another case study, see the w7 series. cody, i get what you're saying with a cost:benefit thing, but i think that a product can be considered good without regards to its price. i mean, you can't say the 12w7 isn't a good product. highly-priced, maybe, but still a good product. maybe not a great value, but a good sub nonetheless.

bknauss

Originally posted by exalted512

any other suggestions out there that havent been mentioned yet?
-Cody

Polk head units (something along the line of simplicity of the Denon HUs, but with digi out and a lower price tag), digital EQs and crossovers, cables + wires + connectors, 3-way components, nav system, balanced line input for the amps, a 6-channel amp for the 3-way components. I'm sure I could think of another couple things to worry about.

exalted512

i think Polk making head units is spreading them out too much...polk is still a relatively small company
i wouldnt mind three ways though
-Cody

Jstas

Sorry guys, I gotta agree 100% with Thom. Changes are coming, it is obvious. Things don't happen overnight. I don't know how many of you are actually employed in the corporate world but being in this kind of environment, I can see where bottle necks and other issues come in to play the prolong a development cycle.

Personally, I don't see Polk Audio going down hill at all. The car audio side is not thier bread and butter. Polk Audio is known for Home Stereo/Theater speakers which they do better than anyone else for the price. They are not the hands-down best speaker out there but go and find a pair of $1500 speakers from another company and comapre them to a pair of Polk Audio LSi15's. I promise you, you will be hard pressed to find competition at that price point for them. The new RTi line is getting rave reviews also. Polk Audio is doing something right.

As far as the car audio goes, I was leary about the amplifiers. I still am kinda leary because I haven't really listened to them. I think Polk Audio is excellent at making speakers. They should leave the electronics to other companies. They are going to be hard-pressed to break into a market dominated by much bigger names who are producing high quality, feature laden products that Polk Audio won't be able to compete with at an entry level price point.

I'd like to see less seperation between the car audio products and the home audio products. I like the new stuff but I'm not fond of the names. I'd like to see a simple looking speaker like the old dB series. Simple design, outstanding performance. Power handling is one thing but it isn't everything. I want to see high quality, clean crossover networks. I want to see some serious technology put into the speaker construction, like the Dynamic Balance idea. If there is to be a high end line, I'd like to see high end options. Make them look good but the speaker should disappear. I realize that has alot to do with installtion but a high end speaker should have such a natural sound that you cannot tell that the sound is coming from a speaker. My old dB's are this >< close to being like that. I'm pretty sure they are and my installtion doesn't do them justice but I am limited by the installation environment.

As far as lines go, the MOMO name is well respected everywhere except the U.S. mainly because they sell what is viewed as "ricer" gear. To an extent it is but it is usually of higher quality. Just because you don't recognize the name doesn't mean it isn't special. Infact, MOMO is probably the ONLY aftermarket company out there that is readily associated with the likes of Ferrari and Maserati. That is saying something. Would I like to see it stay or go? Yes and no. Yes, I'd like to see it go because MOMO is not a prestigous name in the U.S. like it is everywhere else. The main reason I'd want to see it go is that it's targeted at the wrong market. I'd like to see it stay but maybe as a line sold through MOMO dealers as like MOMO Speakers by Polk Audio. A different slant on the idea. Then, offer another high end of speakers. Leave the Carbon series as is and axe the MOMO off of it and have that be the middle line and the current DB series be the entry level. The top end line should incorporate the technology from the home theater side like ring radiator tweeters and such. GIve it a name like Reference and unlike Infinity who has the Reference line as teh bottom end, make it a line that is what Reference means. That to which all others are compared.

Overall, the main thing Polk Audio needs to stay focused on is customer service/interaction. It is excellent now and if it stays excellent, they could probably sell re-baged Jensen stuff and still make people happy. Good customer service means happy customer means repeat customers.

As far as recommending Polk Audio, I still do, all the time. I'm not entirely pleased with the selections and variety in the lines of product but, there is enough substance in the lines that I can usually find something that will work for someone. Overall, I think Polk Audio is working hard to regain the respect they had and patch the tarnished reputation. I'm excited to see the new products and ideas and I'm glad that wehave this forum/Club to be able to talk to Polk Audio directly and influence changes. Now, if only there was an IPO!

bknauss

Originally posted by Jstas


As far as the car audio goes, I was leary about the amplifiers. I still am kinda leary because I haven't really listened to them. I think Polk Audio is excellent at making speakers. They should leave the electronics to other companies. They are going to be hard-pressed to break into a market dominated by much bigger names who are producing high quality, feature laden products that Polk Audio won't be able to compete with at an entry level price point.

Being leary about the amps since Polk is known more as as speaker company isn't a good foundation for an arguement. JL just hopped into the amp market after being almost solely a speaker and amp company. Look at the amps they've made... pretty solid and lots of good reviews.

I would only be leary of amps if they claim huge power output or have a history of falling apart. Not like they've been out for long, but I haven't heard complaints.

MacLeod

Yes, JL hit a home run with their amps. Diamond Audio makes great speakers and great amps as well. Can you think of anybody else? I sure cant. Its very hard to make great everything. "Jack of all trades and master of none".

MB Quart is now making amps and I think it sucks (its all part of Rockford Fosgates plan to ruin the great German speaker maker just like DEI has ruined Precision Power! Next thing you know Quart speakers will have flashy lights all on em. RF has pissed me off by **** with the legendary MB Quart.) Speakers are the most complicated and difficult component to make and very few manufactuers can do it well. I think Polk Audio should stick to what they excell in, making some of the finest speakers in the world. Leave the amps to MTX, Xtant, Orion and the likes.

All in all, I dont think that Polk is going downhill. Quite the contrary. They seem to be making a conserted effort to make better speakers and get their name out there and get noticed.

One idea I think would be great is if Polk built a SQ competition car like JBL did with Biggs and Eldridge. If Polk went out there and started whoopin' **** on the competition scene then people would definitely take notice!

exalted512

Originally posted by MacLeod

One idea I think would be great is if Polk built a SQ competition car like JBL did with Biggs and Eldridge. If Polk went out there and started whoopin' **** on the competition scene then people would definitely take notice!

thatd be pretty damn cool if you ask me
heads would def. turn
-Cody

Jstas

Originally posted by bknauss
Being leary about the amps since Polk is known more as as speaker company isn't a good foundation for an arguement. JL just hopped into the amp market after being almost solely a speaker and amp company. Look at the amps they've made... pretty solid and lots of good reviews.

I would only be leary of amps if they claim huge power output or have a history of falling apart. Not like they've been out for long, but I haven't heard complaints.

I don't really care about JL's history. We are talking about Polk Audio, not JL Audio. For all I care, you can throw the JL Audio stuff out the window, I won't miss it.

As far as the amps Polk Audio MADE, they don't exist. The amp manufacturing, design and construction has been farmed out. It's pretty much a Polk Audio specification that those amps are constructed to. That is not to say that they are junk. I know what Polk Audio is good at and that is building speakers. I think they should stick to that. I think the amps are nice amps, a little pricey IMO but they are nice nonetheless. They certainly put up decent numbers. However, they are a brand new product and my own experience tells me that brand new products often have problems. Personally, I don't really go diving into buying a $500 amp and dropping that much cash on a chance. I research damn near everything I buy. If you don't then that's fine for you but don't discount my own opinion because it doesn't jive with yours.

exalted512

Originally posted by Jstas
I don't really care about JL's history. We are talking about Polk Audio, not JL Audio. For all I care, you can throw the JL Audio stuff out the window, I won't miss it.

As far as the amps Polk Audio MADE, they don't exist. The amp manufacturing, design and construction has been farmed out. It's pretty much a Polk Audio specification that those amps are constructed to. That is not to say that they are junk. I know what Polk Audio is good at and that is building speakers. I think they should stick to that. I think the amps are nice amps, a little pricey IMO but they are nice nonetheless. They certainly put up decent numbers. However, they are a brand new product and my own experience tells me that brand new products often have problems. Personally, I don't really go diving into buying a $500 amp and dropping that much cash on a chance. I research damn near everything I buy.

i could not have said it better
-Cody

neomagus00

i can't say that the age of the line occurred to me when i bought a 300.2, but i can say that it has performed admirably. i have only two complaints, one more significant than the other. the lesser one is that the xover dial is marked strangely... ie there's a tick for 50 and one for 120 but none in between. whatever, it just surprised me, no biggie. more importantly, the pre-eq button introduced a significant amount of noise into the system when depressed. i agonized over a hiss that i couldn't remove for hours, then out of desperation i hit the pre-eq button... a little sound difference, a huge noise difference. just a thought, if polk is revamping the amps.

bknauss

Originally posted by Jstas
I don't really care about JL's history. We are talking about Polk Audio, not JL Audio. For all I care, you can throw the JL Audio stuff out the window, I won't miss it.

As far as the amps Polk Audio MADE, they don't exist. The amp manufacturing, design and construction has been farmed out. It's pretty much a Polk Audio specification that those amps are constructed to. That is not to say that they are junk. I know what Polk Audio is good at and that is building speakers. I think they should stick to that. I think the amps are nice amps, a little pricey IMO but they are nice nonetheless. They certainly put up decent numbers. However, they are a brand new product and my own experience tells me that brand new products often have problems. Personally, I don't really go diving into buying a $500 amp and dropping that much cash on a chance. I research damn near everything I buy. If you don't then that's fine for you but don't discount my own opinion because it doesn't jive with yours.

Is there a chance tha the amps will have flaws? Yes. Can you accurately predict if they're going to be flawed simply by being new? Hell no. The only real research you can do is open one of the amps up and test the hell out of it. If you don't have the knowledge of how to do that, wait around for a decent amount of reviews. I can understand your concerns, but as I was trying to illustrate with the JL example, it IS possible for a company to move into other markets, have a good product under their name, and make some bucks doing it. I could also care less about JL, they're stuff is overpriced, but I was just using them as an example.

Polk is trying to get into where the market has money at this point. The market for home speakers is shrinking, so why not dive into something that should work well? I think its smart that they do farming out at this point. Why take employees that aren't experts at building amps and expect them to make something great? Give them a while and I'm sure they'll get the experience under their belts to design all the stuff in house.

I can see why you might be leary of buying a first gen line of amps from a company that never has built them, but saying they shouldn't dive into another realm of the industry is a good way for the company to die out. As far as I can see, Polk is offering amps at a comparable price point to other decent amp makers out there according to Crutchfield. I don't know what other features you want on an amp, but the features listed are probably all that anyone needs to get by with without going hog wild on stuff like balanced line converters, etc.

bknauss

Originally posted by MacLeod
Yes, JL hit a home run with their amps. Diamond Audio makes great speakers and great amps as well. Can you think of anybody else? I sure cant. Its very hard to make great everything. "Jack of all trades and master of none".

...

One idea I think would be great is if Polk built a SQ competition car like JBL did with Biggs and Eldridge. If Polk went out there and started whoopin' **** on the competition scene then people would definitely take notice!

JBL seems to be doing well with both speakers and amps. PG, MTX, Kicker, RF...

The companies mentioned are mostly known for amps and subs, but none-the-less, they are known for having their hands in two different pots and seem to be doing fairly well with the amount of product they sell. Some of these companies aren't making great products in these two pots, nor are they equal in both pots, but it can be done

I love the idea of a Polk competition car. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Biggs and Eldridge made another competition car for JBL together. I'm fairly certain they're only competing with the same rides they've had for years. Maybe Polk could just lure a big name like JBL did with Biggs, Eldridge, and Gates! While we're at it, maybe we can find out details on Biggs's and Eldridge's setup... maybe that will always be the great secret of the world.

Thom

Originally posted by bknauss
I love the idea of a Polk competition car. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Biggs and Eldridge made another competition car for JBL together. I'm fairly certain they're only competing with the same rides they've had for years. Maybe Polk could just lure a big name like JBL did with Biggs, Eldridge, and Gates! While we're at it, maybe we can find out details on Biggs's and Eldridge's setup... maybe that will always be the great secret of the world.

I went to Mark's SQ workshop at the Installer Institute after SBN this year and he was very open about his truck. He let us look through his picture book and listen to our music in the 4- Runner. For one of the hands- on tuning experiments he let us re- tune his truck and we switched back and forth between our setting and his to see how close we could get it. I'm sure he's got stuff going on that we didn't find out about, but I had no idea what was in it before and it's very cool of him to be so open with it. It won't do me any good, though, because I can't see myself ever putting in those kinds of hours on my own car. I've got way too much time wrapped up in it over the years as it is, but I think he's spent more time tuning than I have installing and tuning. Maybe that's why I haven't won a show in who knows how long...

Thom

Originally posted by Jstas

As far as lines go, the MOMO name is well respected everywhere except the U.S. mainly because they sell what is viewed as "ricer" gear. To an extent it is but it is usually of higher quality. Just because you don't recognize the name doesn't mean it isn't special. Infact, MOMO is probably the ONLY aftermarket company out there that is readily associated with the likes of Ferrari and Maserati. That is saying something. Would I like to see it stay or go? Yes and no. Yes, I'd like to see it go because MOMO is not a prestigous name in the U.S. like it is everywhere else.

Keep in mind we sell these speakers around the world, not just the US.

neomagus00

yeah, then momo makes sense.