Receiver advice for 705s & 706 (7.1) with 5ch Marantz amp

juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
edited July 23 in Electronics
I'm considering either Yamaha RX A870 100w, PIONEER Elite VSX-LX503 125w or MARANTZ SR5012 100w

Room size: small 10'x12' Surround speakers: 2 Martin Logan Motion 2i & 2 cheap bose cubes (will eventually swap out for 703s)

Also, is there any difference in the SR5012 & 5013 and in A870 & A880?
«1

Comments

  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,077
    Go Yamaha or Marantz. The differences in the models are usually incremental from year to year. Find a comparison online at a site like crutchfield to see any differences, or go to AVS forums for that info.
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    My other question: is it possible to forgo the amp with A3070 150w and biamp for the fronts, or is that not recommended for some reason?
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,077
    This is often the next question... Forget "biamping" with a receiver - complete gimmick. 3070 is a better receiver and will sound more refined. While it will power those speakers satisfactorily in a small room such as yours, there's no reason not to use the amp. My recommendation for Yamaha Aventage is to go with the 10xx series and use an amp.
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    My recommendation for Yamaha Aventage is to go with the 10xx series and use an amp.
    Just to clarify, I'm primarily using this for 7.1 movies, thus only 2 channels will be driven at once (maybe 3 with the center)? No intention to use Atmos and if I'm trying to save $170, will the A870 not suffice with a 5ch amp? Any extra benefits in the 10xx series I'm not seeing other than an extra 10w?
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,077
    When the Aventage line first came out, it started at 10xx. As time went by, they pushed it down to lower end models. I'm not convinced that the models below 10xx truly have the refined sound of the higher end models, or if they're just slapping the name on them to justify higher prices, but I'm sure they have some improvements over the RX-V line. If you're trying to save money, only you can decide what your limit should be. The A870 should be fine, especially with some help from an amp. What model is your Marantz 5-channel?
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    edited July 23
    I'd be getting https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marmm7055/marantz-mm7055-5-ch-x-140-watts-power-amplifier/1.html & was advised to bi-amp the 705s in 4ch of the marantz amp & use the last ch for 706
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,934
    edited July 23
    juice2544 wrote: »
    was advised to bi-amp the 705s in 4ch of the marantz amp & use the last ch for 706

    Who advised you to do that?
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    maybe I misunderstood him?
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    I would not bi-amp from an AVR, waste of time and effort. A 5ch amp would let you bi-amp. You could power three speakers on a 5ch amp. The Center and the mains, using two of the amp channels per main. 150w would be good for the 706
    We were discussing the RX-A3070 150w as a possible option but b/c I'm looking to make this as cheap as possible, would likely go for the $429-$600 range for a receiver https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html?home_audio_key[]=Mulit-Channel Preout&home_audio_key[]=100-120 Watts&r=5d36bc70
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 6,934
    I'm still not clear on how it's possible to "bi-amp" from a 5 channel amplifier that uses one power supply/transformer.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,396
    I would go for the Marantz you listed, get an amp, but please do not biamp anything. All you are doing is putting more stress on the receiver, if you get a powerful amp, biamping is redundant and unnecessary.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • EmlynEmlyn Posts: 2,367
    edited July 23
    In a 10 x 12 room I’d buy a receiver first and see how it works out. Skip the amp and put more money into the receiver and a subwoofer. A 7.1 system may not even be worthwhile and 5.1 is easier to fit in a small room. If you do want an amp later, a two channel amp should be more than enough since all the power of the receiver can then go to center and surrounds which would be run small anyway. A 704 as the center would also be enough for the space. Save some money there too, and the 706 is larger than most realize so it can be difficult to fit in or on AV furniture.
    Post edited by Emlyn on
    1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Toshiba HD-DVD Player; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables
    2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Parasound JC2 Preamp; Sonic Frontiers Power 2 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio P1000; MIT S1 Cables
    3. Polk LSiM703; Pioneer Elite SC97 receiver; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,077
    Emlyn wrote: »
    In a 10 x 12 room I’d buy a receiver first and see how it works out. Skip the amp and put more money into the receiver and a subwoofer. A 7.1 system may not even be worthwhile and 5.1 is easier to fit in a small room. If you do want an amp later, a two channel amp should be more than enough since all the power of the receiver can then go to center and surrounds which would be run small anyway. A 704 as the center would also be enough for the space. Save some money there too, and the 706 is larger than most realize so itmcan be difficult to fit in or on AV furniture.
    Yeah... It wasn't until several posts in that it became apparent he didn't actually already own a Marantz 5ch amp. Sometimes helping folks is tough work... I'm tired...
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,003
    Hmm Okay

    First thing, do not bi-amp just a waste of time and money.

    Seconded, get a good AVR Yamaha 10XX or Marantz SR60XX

    Third, a good sub is needed SVS or HSU are the ones I've had great experience with.

    Fourth, Need good speaker wire and interconnects (HDMI-RCA)

    Once setup you may find no need for an amp. If you do then the Marantz is a good one OutlawAudio or Emotiva are also good budget choices

    I'd also say a good 5.1.2 Atmos setup in a room tat size would be better than trying to squeeze in a 7.1. When my oldest moves out next year I keep telling the wife I want to make her room into my man cave and use the bedroom setup.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • rburgess714rburgess714 Posts: 434
    edited July 24
    I don’t think anyone noted that the Aventage 870 doesn’t have preouts other than sub. You need to move up to the 10XX or beyond.

    Sorry I am wrong the 860 does not but 870 does.
    Living Room
    Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Parasound P5, Parasound A23, Yamaha BD-S681, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, Polk S60, Polk S30, Samsung 60" LED

    Office
    Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s

    Douglas Connection ICs and Cables
  • cfrizzcfrizz Posts: 13,396
    The most important improvement he will get by getting an amp is that how much more clearly all the details of dialog/music will become. It is for that reason I always encourage people to get an amp, because receivers usually just don't have the capacity to accomplish this.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 ch. 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony Bravia KDL-40R510C TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Boston VR-920 Center Channel, SVS NSD-12 SB12 Subwoofer, Polk DSW 400 Subwoofer, Polk FXi-3 Surround Speakers
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,534
    edited July 24
    juice2544 wrote: »
    I'd be getting https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marmm7055/marantz-mm7055-5-ch-x-140-watts-power-amplifier/1.html & was advised to bi-amp the 705s in 4ch of the marantz amp & use the last ch for 706
    juice2544 wrote: »
    We were discussing the RX-A3070 150w as a possible option but b/c I'm looking to make this as cheap as possible, would likely go for the $429-$600 range for a receiver https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html?home_audio_key[]=Mulit-Channel Preout&home_audio_key[]=100-120 Watts&r=5d36bc70
    So you have $800 for and amp and $400-$600 for an AVR to spend? About $1400 total? Your room is 10'x12'? with no plans for ATMOS? Then consider going 5.1 and get a nice AVR.

    Consider the NAD T 758 V3
    https://nadelectronics.com/product/t-758-v3-av-surround-sound-receiver/
    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=NAD+T+758+V3&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15

    You can read the feedback on the web from those like the DIRAC Live room correction and overall sound quality of the NAD over some Marantz, Denon units with Audyssey or Anthem units with ARC room correction. Plus it has nice high current amps and BluOS Streaming built in. This unit might be able to drive your small room just fine.
    NAD’s Modular Design Construction makes V3 of the T758 a special occasion as one of the small but growing number of surround products with Dirac. Putting aside the aforementioned challenges with learning to use it, it's an empowering tool for the questing audio tweaker who wants the flexibility to experiment with room correction parameters. Coupled here with this fine-sounding receiver, the audible results are beautiful.
    Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/content/nad-t758-v3-av-receiver-review-page-2#TWK7lz0jql5v8gAw.99
    There is little to say against the NAD T 758 V3. At $1300, it sits in a hugely-competitive price segment for AV receivers and frankly, all I need to hear is Dirac Live and I’m done. It may not have a ton of features but it absolutely has the ones that count – clean sound that plays loud without distortion, Dolby Atmos, Ultra HD passthrough, and the best room correction I’ve heard to date. One might wish for more amp channels or DTS:X but honestly, at this price, I defy anyone to show me a better-sounding receiver.
    https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/surround-sound-speaker-systems-reviews/nad-t-758-v3-av-surround-sound-receiver-review/

    If you find that you do need more power, find a low cost quality used 2, 3, 5 channel amp like this to drive just the mains, or just the front three, or all five.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parasound-HCA-1205A-5-Channel-140-watts-Amplifier/183877919639?epid=66783576&hash=item2acffa6397:g:MLEAAOSwxM1dJtiV

    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649536991-bamp-k-st2140/

    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649526324-bampk-7250-series-ii-5-channel-amp/

    Post edited by WLDock on
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,534
    Also, the LSiM 704c center is on sale for $199! More saving as this speaker will work out fine in your smaller space.

    https://www.adorama.com/pkalsim704c.html?sdtid=13254295&emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,003
    WLDock wrote: »
    Also, the LSiM 704c center is on sale for $199! More saving as this speaker will work out fine in your smaller space.

    https://www.adorama.com/pkalsim704c.html?sdtid=13254295&emailprice=t&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=rflaid62905

    Darn great price for that speaker
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    edited July 24
    To clarify, I have 2 705s, 706, 2 Martin Logan 2i Freemotion & 2 bose cubes with the sub that comes with the Acoustimass 6 (bose components will be replaced in the future of course but 7.1 is my setup, if I use Atmos in the future, would that be through zone 2?). My room isn't enclosed & it might even go into a large living room without wall constraints. I'm considering the 5ch Marantz amp b/c it comes with a 3yr warranty (dont want used equip.) & my only question to those who are willing to take a closer look is what the minor differences in these are (apart from wattage, that would be worth the extra cost?):
    https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a870_u/index.html $430 100w
    https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a880_u/index.html $550 100w
    https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-a1070_u/index.html $600 110w

    https://www.us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&ProductId=SR5012 $480 100w
    https://www.us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?catid=avreceivers&subcatid=0&productid=sr5013 $570 100w
    https://www.us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers&ProductId=SR6012 $650 110w (not really considering but wondering why MrLoren recommended it)

    I do have an old 1080p RX-A700 w/preouts that I could hook the amp to once purchased & see how the speakers sound w/actual power.
    Post edited by juice2544 on
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    edited July 24
    Also, another consideration would be that 8k movies might become available in a couple years meaning the receiver will have to be replaced again.
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,472
    So?
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    edited July 24
    Makes me want to go with a cheaper option, either A870, SR5012 or A1070 depending on if there's a difference in internal parts quality
    Post edited by juice2544 on
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 11,472
    The receiver just passes the video signal through it to the TV. That is how my Onkyo preamp handles 4K, and I assume 8K will be the same.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    I noticed Yamha doesn't have Dolby ProLogic Ilz, can someone elaborate on Auro 3D, Audyssey DSX in the Marantz?
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 5,077
    The best place to go for learning about that stuff (receiver features and differences) is AVS forums. Not trying to run you off, just saying. A lot of us have accounts over there, too.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 3,215
    Just stay away from Audiogon, full O trolls
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - PS Audio SGC - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AF-61
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    The best place to go for learning about that stuff (receiver features and differences) is AVS forums. Not trying to run you off, just saying. A lot of us have accounts over there, too.
    Funny, I was just browsing there. Having HDCP 2.2 over 2.3 won't cause me any issues I'm guessing?
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 2,003
    Why the Marantz SR60XX? It's a better receiver than the SR50XX. Just as a Yamaha 10XX it better than the 8XX.

    Look at the weights of these AVR the SR60XX is about 6lb more than the SR50XX, A lot of that weight is power supply.

    All of these receivers come with calibration software built in. I know in the Marantz Audyssey XT is not as nice as Audyssey XT32 that comes in the SR60XX.

    The SR60XX is a 9.2 while the SR50XX is a 7.1. Those two extra channels can be used for a zone 2 setup

    ATMOS/DTSX and Aruo 3D are 3D sound fields. Several ways to hook these up, in-ceiling speaker, bounce speakers (kind of suck) and elevation speakers. This does add to the overall home theater experience.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN75RU710DFXZA,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk LsiM 705
    Center: Polk LSiM 704C
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk S15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES AVR, Sony DVP-NS3100ES for disc
    Cerwin Vega AT-12 (blasters) Advent Prodigy (listening)
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • juice2544juice2544 Posts: 22
    edited July 25
    anyone know if Ac4L runs holiday specials?
  • Geoff4rfcGeoff4rfc Posts: 1,732
    edited July 25
    juice2544 wrote: »
    anyone know if Ac4L runs holiday specials?

    I know they are good folks over there, at least I haven't had a bad experience in the last three receivers I've purchased over. And yes, you're buying refurbished products but you have the option of purchasing an extended warranty, four choices I believe, I always get the max. And, after getting two integras and one Marantz, all three showed up looking and behaving brand new. My DTR-70.4 was a beast of an AVR and showing no signs of wear after nearly 5 years of use when I switched to my pre-processor. It's going to make a great second set up one day :)

    Anyway (oops) my point, give them a call, it doesn't hurt to ask if there is going to be price decrease anytime soon.
    Draggn' knee is exhilarating, 150mph wheel standers are pretty cool too

    H.T.
    SPEAKERS: RTiA9 x 4, CSiA6, FXiA6 x 4 AVR: Integra DTR-70.4 AMPS: Emotiva XPA-3, XPA-2 SUBS: Epik Empire x 2

    SOURCE: Oppo 103 CABLES: nuthin fancy, some bought, some homemade but all are double and triple shielded

    2CH
    SPEAKERS: LSiM703 PRE Onkyo TX-NR 807 AMP XPA-2 SOURCE ERC-3 INTERCONNECTS Furez FZ162AA analog cable with R10BCS silver RCA's

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is
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