Took a drill to the pass labs earlier

VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
changed out those crappy rca plugs with the WBT nextgen

Next up will be to chang the binding post to something that accepts larger bare wire... have my eye on the ETI BP20C

7av7dbt1g9tb.jpg
- Not Tom

Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro

Comments

  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    I really liked this small upgrade that took like 30 minutes!

    I am thinking the next thing will be to drill out for NL4 jacks to then run parallel out to the binding posts.... Will be the easiest way to change the binding posts as well. Will have to compare NL4 to bare wire :p
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    edited June 6
    What a bear!

    Those stock pass labs binding post were awful, as were the rca jacks

    ixwqf5zo8yw6.jpg

    stock, as a comparison

    ypejfoaea1f2.jpg
    Post edited by VR3 on
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    Fired it up and no magic smoke!

    Best part is, my system is officially brass free!
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,124
    The XLR jumpers are brass, I believe >:) :D

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    ACTUALLY, I use 8 gauge copper to replace the stock ones :p
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 7,200
    It always makes me raise an eyebrow when high end manufacturers skimp on things like binding posts.

    Great job on the upgrades.
    "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • verbverb Posts: 7,939
    Clipdat wrote: »
    It always makes me raise an eyebrow when high end manufacturers skimp on things like binding posts.

    Great job on the upgrades.

    Tell me about it. The Peachtree was near impossible to swap out, as they were integrated into the PCB.

    They probably don't even consider folks that constantly swap out cables, etc., and design to "one and done" reliability. Or just basic service in general.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    edited June 6
    I think it truly comes down to cost...

    Those rca jacks are like 35 each, the binding post were 100 a pair... Etc, granted they would get high volume p4icing

    Compare that to pennies on the dollar
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 12,176
    The question is ‘Does it sound better?’
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    I'll respond to that once I switch to the nl4, as I used that as the primary connection and the post are the parallel connection. That will also be the time I get rid of my banana plugs.

    My initial impressions of everything so far is very good 😁
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    I started noticing this as I've started to tinker with gear. We invest all of this money into cabling and pass used standard 16 Gauge ofc copper, tin plated. Not only that, but it was then crimped to an eye hook (tin) and secured to a gold plated brass binding post. How someone with thousands in cables can ask, does it make a difference gives me a chuckle.

    On the flip side, most speakers are wired with junk cabling and binding posts...



    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,495
    VR3 wrote: »
    I started noticing this as I've started to tinker with gear. We invest all of this money into cabling and pass used standard 16 Gauge ofc copper, tin plated. Not only that, but it was then crimped to an eye hook (tin) and secured to a gold plated brass binding post. How someone with thousands in cables can ask, does it make a difference gives me a chuckle.

    On the flip side, most speakers are wired with junk cabling and binding posts...



    B)
  • BlueFoxBlueFox Posts: 12,176
    Pass is learning from their customers. They replaced the POS plastic DB 25 cable on the XP-20 with an aircraft grade connector on the XP-22. External cables improve even shoddy internal cabling on gear that customers have no control over.
    Bud - Silicon Valley

    Lumin X1
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    I'm a cable believer, no doubt. Hence why I have taken that control.

    My speakers internal wiring is the Quadrax, my preamp uses dh lab on the analog out and the ohm a ha cable on the digital in... Kept the pass calling as I didn't feel like messing with it. I personally have nothing against tin plated copper.
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,124
    I have the brass Cardas binding posts on my Pass Aleph 30 and have never wanted or thought about swapping them out. Why would a high end company like Cardas make binging posts carved out of brass if they were so poor sounding?

    I'm all for tweaking for personal preference so whatever floats one's boat.

    But yes, I agree it's a cost factor. I'd rather have them skimp a little bit there than make other compromises so a product could be shipped with mega $$ binding posts. Plus, on the high end gear it's an easy swap most times for the hobbiest who wants to experiment.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    Cardas makes a nice product and it was built to a specific standard.

    The post that pass used was more in line to the cheapest offering on alibaba.com
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,124
    edited June 7
    FTR, my binding posts were swapped out by the previous owner.

    Super cheap? I don't understand why they would use that for a product of that level.

    I've seen the posts on the newer stuff and they didn't skimp.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,195
    VR3 wrote: »
    Cardas makes a nice product and it was built to a specific standard.

    The post that pass used was more in line to the cheapest offering on alibaba.com

    John Curl believes in this as it saves cost and he sees no value in the investment. Parasound had to convince him to use nicer posts on the new JC5.
  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    The newer pass gear does use much nicer connections.
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,602
    edited June 7
    DSkip wrote: »
    VR3 wrote: »
    Cardas makes a nice product and it was built to a specific standard.

    The post that pass used was more in line to the cheapest offering on alibaba.com

    John Curl believes in this as it saves cost and he sees no value in the investment. Parasound had to convince him to use nicer posts on the new JC5.

    That doesn't sound right, knowing John Curl's fanaticism about high quality parts. I am not aware of any controversy between John Curl and Parasound regarding the JC5 amp's binding posts, as it uses custom designed binding posts made by CHK Infinium to John Curl's specifications.

    There was a bitter disagreement between Curl and Parasound, circa 2002, when he was working on the desigm of the JC1 monoblocks. He fought a tough battle with Parasound's engineers and management to get them to use the higher quality and significantly more expensive (~$25 per pair retail) Superior Electric binding posts. The generic binding posts Parasound wanted to use cost a few dollars per pair.

    John Curl and Bob Crump briefly discuss the controversy here:

    John Curl: https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/amp/10904/re-parasound-jc-1non-monoblocked

    Bob Crump: http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tweaks&n=105070

    Parasound informed me of an incident where a batch of JC 1s arrived from the Taiwan factory and John Curl and Bob Crump noticed something was "off" about the random samples they tested. They eventually went through each amplifier in the batch and each had the same "off" sound, even though they measured to spec. It turned out that the Taiwan factory had ran out of Superior Electric binding posts and had substituted lower quality lookalike posts.
    Post edited by DarqueKnight on
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
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  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    That's an interesting story, I like it. My biggest problem with the pass labs post was the fact they were not friendly to bare wire, drove me nuts.

    So I changed everything over to neutrik gold plated nl4 connectorsthis effectively removed my banana plugs and all binding post from my chain. Now everything is nl4 which is directly soldered on the other end.

    The difference in the macro details is very evident, less congestion in the staging is my immediate thoughts on this.
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
  • verbverb Posts: 7,939
    VR3 wrote: »
    I think it truly comes down to cost...

    Those rca jacks are like 35 each, the binding post were 100 a pair... Etc, granted they would get high volume p4icing

    Compare that to pennies on the dollar

    Exactly. Every manufacturer, looks at content, to reduce costs. Customer facing content is the last to go. Serviceability is high on the list of things to reduce, as the assumption is that most regular folks won't service their own, and just take it to a shop.
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS, Cary SLP-05 Pre, Enlightened Audio Designs CD Transport, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Digital Cable, Marantz SA-14 SACD, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, Wireworld Oasis 8 RCA IC's, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, PASS ACA Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: , Antique Sound Labs Wave AV-8 Monoblocks, Tisbury Mini Passive Pre, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 16,195
    Perhaps that had something to do with it. I can say my source is solid.
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,269
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  • VR3VR3 Posts: 23,457
    With the irony that bare wire is as good I'd not better, just not as convenient 😅
    - Not Tom

    Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com

    "No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
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