Took a drill to the pass labs earlier

VR3

changed out those crappy rca plugs with the WBT nextgen

Next up will be to chang the binding post to something that accepts larger bare wire... have my eye on the ETI BP20C

VR3

I really liked this small upgrade that took like 30 minutes!

I am thinking the next thing will be to drill out for NL4 jacks to then run parallel out to the binding posts.... Will be the easiest way to change the binding posts as well. Will have to compare NL4 to bare wire

VR3

What a bear!

Those stock pass labs binding post were awful, as were the rca jacks



stock, as a comparison

VR3

Fired it up and no magic smoke!

Best part is, my system is officially brass free!

heiney9

The XLR jumpers are brass, I believe

H9

VR3

ACTUALLY, I use 8 gauge copper to replace the stock ones

Clipdat

It always makes me raise an eyebrow when high end manufacturers skimp on things like binding posts.

Great job on the upgrades.

verb

Clipdat wrote: »

It always makes me raise an eyebrow when high end manufacturers skimp on things like binding posts.

Great job on the upgrades.

Tell me about it. The Peachtree was near impossible to swap out, as they were integrated into the PCB.

They probably don't even consider folks that constantly swap out cables, etc., and design to "one and done" reliability. Or just basic service in general.

VR3

I think it truly comes down to cost...

Those rca jacks are like 35 each, the binding post were 100 a pair... Etc, granted they would get high volume p4icing

Compare that to pennies on the dollar

BlueFox

The question is ‘Does it sound better?’

VR3

I'll respond to that once I switch to the nl4, as I used that as the primary connection and the post are the parallel connection. That will also be the time I get rid of my banana plugs.

My initial impressions of everything so far is very good 😁

VR3

I started noticing this as I've started to tinker with gear. We invest all of this money into cabling and pass used standard 16 Gauge ofc copper, tin plated. Not only that, but it was then crimped to an eye hook (tin) and secured to a gold plated brass binding post. How someone with thousands in cables can ask, does it make a difference gives me a chuckle.

On the flip side, most speakers are wired with junk cabling and binding posts...

lightman1

VR3 wrote: »

I started noticing this as I've started to tinker with gear. We invest all of this money into cabling and pass used standard 16 Gauge ofc copper, tin plated. Not only that, but it was then crimped to an eye hook (tin) and secured to a gold plated brass binding post. How someone with thousands in cables can ask, does it make a difference gives me a chuckle.

On the flip side, most speakers are wired with junk cabling and binding posts...

BlueFox

Pass is learning from their customers. They replaced the POS plastic DB 25 cable on the XP-20 with an aircraft grade connector on the XP-22. External cables improve even shoddy internal cabling on gear that customers have no control over.

VR3

I'm a cable believer, no doubt. Hence why I have taken that control.

My speakers internal wiring is the Quadrax, my preamp uses dh lab on the analog out and the ohm a ha cable on the digital in... Kept the pass calling as I didn't feel like messing with it. I personally have nothing against tin plated copper.

heiney9

I have the brass Cardas binding posts on my Pass Aleph 30 and have never wanted or thought about swapping them out. Why would a high end company like Cardas make binging posts carved out of brass if they were so poor sounding?

I'm all for tweaking for personal preference so whatever floats one's boat.

But yes, I agree it's a cost factor. I'd rather have them skimp a little bit there than make other compromises so a product could be shipped with mega $$ binding posts. Plus, on the high end gear it's an easy swap most times for the hobbiest who wants to experiment.

H9

VR3

Cardas makes a nice product and it was built to a specific standard.

The post that pass used was more in line to the cheapest offering on alibaba.com

heiney9

FTR, my binding posts were swapped out by the previous owner.

Super cheap? I don't understand why they would use that for a product of that level.

I've seen the posts on the newer stuff and they didn't skimp.

H9

VR3

The newer pass gear does use much nicer connections.

DarqueKnight

DSkip wrote: »

VR3 wrote: »

Cardas makes a nice product and it was built to a specific standard.

The post that pass used was more in line to the cheapest offering on alibaba.com

John Curl believes in this as it saves cost and he sees no value in the investment. Parasound had to convince him to use nicer posts on the new JC5.

That doesn't sound right, knowing John Curl's fanaticism about high quality parts. I am not aware of any controversy between John Curl and Parasound regarding the JC5 amp's binding posts, as it uses custom designed binding posts made by CHK Infinium to John Curl's specifications.

There was a bitter disagreement between Curl and Parasound, circa 2002, when he was working on the desigm of the JC1 monoblocks. He fought a tough battle with Parasound's engineers and management to get them to use the higher quality and significantly more expensive (~$25 per pair retail) Superior Electric binding posts. The generic binding posts Parasound wanted to use cost a few dollars per pair.

John Curl and Bob Crump briefly discuss the controversy here:

John Curl: https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/amp/10904/re-parasound-jc-1non-monoblocked

Bob Crump: http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tweaks&n=105070

Parasound informed me of an incident where a batch of JC 1s arrived from the Taiwan factory and John Curl and Bob Crump noticed something was "off" about the random samples they tested. They eventually went through each amplifier in the batch and each had the same "off" sound, even though they measured to spec. It turned out that the Taiwan factory had ran out of Superior Electric binding posts and had substituted lower quality lookalike posts.

VR3

That's an interesting story, I like it. My biggest problem with the pass labs post was the fact they were not friendly to bare wire, drove me nuts.

So I changed everything over to neutrik gold plated nl4 connectorsthis effectively removed my banana plugs and all binding post from my chain. Now everything is nl4 which is directly soldered on the other end.

The difference in the macro details is very evident, less congestion in the staging is my immediate thoughts on this.

verb

VR3 wrote: »

I think it truly comes down to cost...

Those rca jacks are like 35 each, the binding post were 100 a pair... Etc, granted they would get high volume p4icing

Compare that to pennies on the dollar

Exactly. Every manufacturer, looks at content, to reduce costs. Customer facing content is the last to go. Serviceability is high on the list of things to reduce, as the assumption is that most regular folks won't service their own, and just take it to a shop.

voltz

Look At Audio quest Banana plugs ,,,they put those cheap plastic plugs on many of their best cables. but sell aftermarket much better plugs that I really like. go figure

this is what you get:
https://smile.amazon.com/Audioquest-SureGrip-Banana-Plugs-Gold/dp/B00LHYX4UQ/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1SWQKLBQ6U3IE&keywords=audioquest+banana+plugs&qid=1559955239&s=gateway&sprefix=audio+quest+bana,aps,157&sr=8-4

this is what you should have got:
https://smile.amazon.com/Audioquest-500-Banana-Connectors-Silver/dp/B00FWUFXXC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1SWQKLBQ6U3IE&keywords=audioquest+banana+plugs&qid=1559955239&s=gateway&sprefix=audio+quest+bana,aps,157&sr=8-5

VR3

With the irony that bare wire is as good I'd not better, just not as convenient 😅