Musical twin subs on a budget

bhsguyjesse

For starters, a BIG thank you to everyone on my first post who recommended the signature series. I bought a set of S60s and I LOVE them.

Now onto today’s topic. I want to get a set of subs to add more low end. I stated in my last post that I had bass covered, well I’ve changed my setup and want to upgrade.

I bought three cheap Sony 10” subs ($30 ea at BB on clearance) and I I had them setup around my listening recliner. Where I sat, it sounded great but it really lacked everywhere else in the room. I decided to put two of them up front with the S60s for better room balance and I’ve discovered it’s not enough now.

No I’ve searched other forums and found that the SVS subs are the best performers for music but after dropping the dough for the S60s I don’t have a big budget for subs. I’ve read a lot about dual sub setups and I’m pretty sure I want to stick with that but that isn’t set in stone.
I’m seriously considering the BIC F12s 150 watt rms subs as they have great reviews and are considered by many, a great value.

The room I’m in is a finished basement living room with 8’ flat ceilings and Is relatively small somewhere around 9 x 20 with a listening distance of around 6 1/2 feet so I don’t think I need anything huge. I’m setting the budget at around $500-$600. I’m also looking at dual BIC PL-200 iis which provide 250 watts RMS.

I have discovered for my tastes I like bass in the 60 hz range which is my go to crossover setting on my receiver.

Anyone have these? Are they decent for music? Sure I know there’s a lot better out there but I just don’t have the budget for it.

Please don’t make fun of my drawing😆😆 I just wanted to make something for reference.

I

bhsguyjesse

erniejade

After the 2 openings, is there an actual solid corner like in the drawing? If so, try putting the subs in each corner. If wires are an issue, I think outlaw audio sells a wireless subwoofer adapter.

bhsguyjesse

This was a rough drawing. The shaded part is the enclosed steps coming downstairs and both back corners have doors leading to other rooms so no I can’t put anything back there.

afterburnt

are you a cereal killer?

erniejade

So you are limited by that wall or a wireless adapter on another wall. Do a sub crawl. put the sub in your listening spot and get crawl around the room ( at sub placement level) and see where the bass sounds good to you.

bhsguyjesse

afterburnt wrote: »

are you a cereal killer?

🤨😆?

bhsguyjesse

I like the current placement. I’ve tried several things and this gives the best balance. I’m more interested in what you guys think about the BIC subs.

Milito

You need to take the plastic wrap off you speakers behind your grills.

deronb1

^^^^This. However, if you are dead set on subs, look at the Def Tech Supercubes.

rpf65

One good sub( svs, hsu, rythmik, and a host of others) will preform better than a pair of bic subs.

The s-60’s, properly powered would give 2 bics or pretty much any budget sub a run for the money.

Get your s-60 powered correctly, and don’t go cheap on the sub.

rooftop59

Agreed - more power is a better investment than cheap subs. This is even true with good bookies that can dig into the 40s hz, but especially with those towers.

kharp1

Agree with the above posts. Get the best/most out of what you have now, and, when you do get a sub get a quality sub. Start with one. I'm running my main system in a small room that had terrible dimensions for sound. I started out with one SVS, but, decided to get a second. I ended up going back to one sub. You may have more trouble pressuring your listening area due to dimensions and layout.

Tweak what you have now to get the most out of it then add a quality sub. You can get a quality sub for thr price of two "budget" subs. That one will probably work well enough until a second could be added.

JPete

I'd vote on a single SVS sub. I've got a single in a large room and it gets along pretty well.

Also, these are in the FS section right now. Never heard them personally, but they fit your budget. Local pickup though.

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/185672/nht-subwoofers#latest

mrloren

I've had lot of time on SVS and HSU, either will do you good. Save for a quality sub. cheap subs suck! Around November SVS puts out a 12NSD sub for a great price. Save till then.

Are you using your AVR calibration program to set your subs?

kharp1

You will probably need some decent calibration tools to help with you room. You have some challenges in that shaped room and you may have issues trying to get proper levels of pressure in some spots.

PSOVLSK

You may not be too happy with the responses since no one has directly addressed the BIC subs, but the truth is you've been given some advice that will improve your system now and will provide for upgrades in the future.

mrloren

On a side note,

A friend has two Polk 505 subs in his system. Thinks it sounds great. One day I went over for a BBQ and dragged my old 10" HSU STF2 over. my old single STF2 sounded way better than his two budget subs. He almost didn't let me leave with it.

a VTF2 is in your price range. it will knock those sony's out

http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

kharp1

To directly answer your question, I have no experience with that sub. I've owned older JBL subs back in the late 80's, JBL's from the early 2000's, Polk, Velodyne, and SVS. I've had personal experience with several other subs, Paradigm, Klipsch Def Tech, etc. Many of them are decent subs, but, you will find a following of folks that will say not to waste your money on that type of equipment when you can ultimately do better for not much more. And, general consensus is one good quality sub is more beneficial than two lesser quality.

ddog

Ok..I'll throw my hat in the ring...

My advice would be to get a set of Elac 3010 subs. They have built in DSP's so you can calibrate them to your room on the fly using your smartphone.

They have a 400w amp, 10 inch woofer and 10 inch passive radiator in each.
You can get them off Ebay for under $300 each.

These subs are very musical and with their DSP's you can optimize them to sound great anywhere in your room. You will have complete control of them from an app on your phone while setting in your chair....

Also....could you maybe turn the room around and put the couch where the TV/stereo is and the the tv/stereo where the couch is..?
This would allow you to speed things out a bit and help even out the bass in the room..

WLDock

^^^Great idea there on the ELAC. and I would agree with others to get power to the mains first, and/or consider with the internet direct brands or even go DIY!

However, the Signature line has such a cool look, it would be cool to have the matching subs. The HTS 12 gets good feedback and can get down to 20Hz with a little tuning and room gain. It's $330 shipped from amazon. Worth a strong consideration.

https://www.avsforum.com/review-polk-hts12-12-ported-subwoofer-review/

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-D24n0tC0fxE/p_107HTS12/Polk-Audio-HTS-12-Washed-Black-Walnut.html

https://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-HTS-SUB-BLK/dp/B075LQ2TNQ#customerReviews

Look at the thick MDF well braced cabinet

mrloren

We demoed the HTS subs at Fry's. Not a bad sub much better than the 505. @ $330 it's not a bad buy. I'd still rather wait and get and SVS or HSU.

Now if the HTS 12 came in @ $250 it would be a go to sub.

I can't say on the Elac. I've never had the chance to listen to one

WLDock

mrloren wrote: »

@ $330 it's not a bad buy. I'd still rather wait and get and SVS or HSU. Now if the HTS 12 came in @ $250 it would be a go to sub.

Yes, the internet direct brands would be the way to go but it all comes down to ones budget. All of these are good cost to performance value options:

2 x JBL SUB550P 10" sealed- $399.90 shipped
2 x Polk HTS 10 ported - $598 shipped
2 x Polk HTS 12 ported - $660 shipped
2 x ELAC Debut 2.0 SUB3010 10" Passive Radiator $719.96 shipped
2 x DIY Subs $600 - $1000
2 x RSL Speedwoofer 10s 10" Ported - $798 shipped
2 x HSU VTF-1 MK3 10" ported - $861 shipped
2 x SVS SB-1000 12" sealed - $949 shipped
2 x SVS PB-1000 10" ported- $949 shipped
2 x Monoprice Monolith 10" sealed or ported - $949 shipped
2 x REL REL Acoustics HT/1003 10" sealed - $998 shipped
2 x HSU VTF-2 MK5 - 12" ported - $1155 shipped

mrloren

Keep it simple, go with one VTF2MK5 and IF you need another (which I doubt) then you will know which one to get. I'd rather have a single HSU or SVS over two HTS subs.

The VTF2 hits the performance price point with good deep bass. My VTF3 is a 15" driver that is also very musical. I listen to 70's-80's rock mostly and it does very good with it. I keep thinking of adding a 2nd one but I have no place to put it and don't want to damage my house (seriously).

I've had a listen to the Monoprice Monolith subs, I'd stay away from them, cheap SVS knock off's that don't sound that great. My bro sent them back after a week and got two SVS PB12NSD subs and loves them.

kharp1

Also, check the SVS outlet, they have done decent deals and they carry the same warranty and in home trial.

Emlyn

With the space limitation in the photos, I would go with a single subwoofer to the right side of the system outside the right speaker. The biggest SVS the budget will allow. Maybe think about getting a second matching one at a later date.

PSOVLSK

Emlyn wrote: »

With the space limitation in the photos, I would go with a single subwoofer to the right side of the system outside the right speaker. The biggest SVS the budget will allow. Maybe think about getting a second matching one at a later date.

Honestly, call SVS. They will not oversell you. I know I've said it before, but they talked me down to a lower sub because they said it would be better in my system.

ddog

So for those suggesting a SVS sub....should he a SB or PB...?

Another thing to think about here is that the way he has it set up...the room is open to both sides behind the speakers and sound is firing at a lot of glass.
Definitely going to need some heavy DSP( room correction) work and some room treatments would really help.

kharp1

Are you mostly HT use, or, is listening to music your main focus? I ported sub will typically dig deeper, however, you lose a bit of "control" on the musical side. Like the previous poster mentioned try calling SVS. Great people to work with. My feeling is that with your room dimensions you'd be better off with a sealed box. And, DSP will probably be very important in your use.

WLDock

I think all have the OP set in the right direction in suggesting the best single sub. However, the OP really needs to figure out what his current budget is as well as his future budget. He did say he had other priorities so audio may take a back seat for awhile.

I think the jewel of his system are the S60 towers. I would start with getting a better receiver to power them over the $299 retail Pioneer he has now. A receiver / amp combo would be great but even shopping used it may take time to find something nice within the budget. His current reciver does not have preouts.

Nevertheless, maybe look at some local used stuff on craigslist, facebook marketplace, letgo, offerup, etc? Here are some options:

A better receiver:

Pioneer SC-1222- K Network ready 7.2 Channel AV Receiver - $275 (MSRP $1,100!) This has the D3 amps that really deliver the advertised power.
https://lynchburg.craigslist.org/ele/d/lynchburg-pioneer-sc-network-ready-72/6852613139.html

Here are the test for the premium model the SC-61 that is the Elite version of the SC-1222-K:https://www.soundandvision.com/content/pioneer-elite-sc-61-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
The D3 Pioneer driving the S60's is almost like having an outboard amp!

HT Labs Measures
Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 127.2 watts
1% distortion at 150.3 watts

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 109.0 watts
1% distortion at 127.7 watts

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 99.4 watts
1% distortion at 110.3 watts

or this:
Marantz AV Surround Receiver SR6012 - $400 More powerful and refined than what the OP has now (MSRP $1499!).https://charlottesville.craigslist.org/ele/d/charlottesville-marantz-av-surround/6860564793.html

or this older flagship powerful Marantz for $500 (MSRP $1799!)
https://harrisonburg.craigslist.org/ele/d/harrisonburg-marantz-sr7007-receiver/6859576475.html

Once you give the S60's a good front end, then find a good deal on a sub. Maybe this super cheap deal?

SVS 25-31CS w/ 100W plate amplifier - $50! I bet this single sub and the lowly 100W plare amp sounds better than the three Sony subs?
https://winchester.craigslist.org/ele/d/white-post-subwoofer-svs/6835525955.html

Here's another:
HSU VTF-3 MK1 - $349
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2509999745696726/

Check here for others: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/112309152119072/search/?query=SVS&categoryID=allelectronics&vertical=C2C&sort=BEST_MATCH


I like the above suggestions as it can be done within the OP's $500-$600 budget. The Pioneer AVR and sub for $350 is a no brainer! Also, there should be noticeable performance gains and will set the op in the right direction and might sustain him for awhile. Then, he can decide where to go from there.

sgmsmg

I think some of the Pioneer receivers suggested are susceptible to the HDMI Board failure though?