Weight, body, and heft
Clipdat
Posts: 12,933
What elements of a stereo system contribute toward the sound having a palpable weight or body to it?
Thick (but not syrupy), lush, organic, full bodied sound with some good meat on it's bones. The opposite of thin or anemic sound.
Just wondering if there's some obvious things that would contribute to this audible sensation. A speaker with a dedicated midrange driver? A certain brand of speaker? Vinyl vs digital? Certain tubes or cables? Certain types of room treatments?
Thick (but not syrupy), lush, organic, full bodied sound with some good meat on it's bones. The opposite of thin or anemic sound.
Just wondering if there's some obvious things that would contribute to this audible sensation. A speaker with a dedicated midrange driver? A certain brand of speaker? Vinyl vs digital? Certain tubes or cables? Certain types of room treatments?
Comments
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Everything matters, from cables to choice of music. From your source to your speakers... nothing is more or less important.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
So many things in the system contribute to the overall sound. But when you listed this specific series of descriptions, the main thing that came to my mind is good quality bass. How you get there is a winding road with a million routes, but when I hear those key words, good bass is what comes to mind. Not always necessarily deep, just very well produced.Thick (but not syrupy), lush, organic, full bodied sound with some good meat on it's bones. The opposite of thin or anemic sound.
Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
Discogs -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Everything matters, from cables to choice of music. From your source to your speakers... nothing is more or less important.
+1
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
When you talk weight or body, I agree everything matters, period.
I also agree about bass in the sense that there has to be a flow or balance, without great blending of the low and low-mid, there will be no "palpable weight", life all about balance Daniel-san.VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
Polk SDA1c modded
Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
SACD Marantz DV8300
Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
Yamaha YP-D6
Soundcraftsmen PCR800
Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
Pho-700 Phono Pre
Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's -
Room, room treatments, speakers, and speaker placement generate the most obvious differences in weight of the sound to me. Of course associated equipment makes a difference, and what works in one system doesn't always work in another.
I don't have any high end equipment so I have spent a lot of time optimizing what I have for the environment.
I have a set of Digital Phase AP2s in a large open room. They're rear ported and very sensitive to placement. A few inches in relation to the back wall make huge differences in clarity and weight. Foam wedges in the corners and some insulated wall panels also made huge differences here. Changing cables and other equipment has been more subtle.Lexicon RT-10, Parasound P5, McCormack DNA 0.5, Polk SDA CRS+, SVS Sub
Schiit Modi, Luminous Audio Axiom II, McCormack DNA-1, Digital Phase AP 2
Marantz AV7701, Emotiva XPA-5, Paradigm 11se Mkii, DCM Time Windows, NHT 2C, SVS Sub
Spares - Kenwood C1 Pre, NAD 2200PE, Polk Monitor 10B, Polk Model 11, other odds and ends -
It all starts with speakers my friend. This is what you build around. The Room is super important and it can make or break your system. So room treatments placement and furniture all add tot he experience.
The gear you purchase around the room and speaker needs.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
midbass
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An anvil in the speaker cabinets.
lol
I recently changed, uh, something and found what you are looking for. You don't know your missing it until you find it. I just gotta figure out what made the change, and keep it that way (I made a number of changes that day.)
Good luck in your hunt! -
mlistens03 wrote: »An anvil in the speaker cabinets. lol
I recently changed, uh, something and found what you are looking for. You don't know your missing it until you find it. I just gotta figure out what made the change, and keep it that way (I made a number of changes that day.)
Good luck in your hunt!
Your well on your way to being a future audiophile young man. Never be afraid to experiment, shake things up, that's how we make discoveries that suit our ears.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Everything matters....is the correct answer. Thing is, you have to isolate the piece, or cabling, or speakers, that isn't giving you those things and make changes. Can't squeeze blood out of a turnip as the saying goes.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
single ended direct heated triodes and horns. The right horns, not the wrong horns.
The right horns.
The wrong horns.
otherwise, yeah, it could get real complicated, as others' comments have implied.
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It’s taken me about 3 years to get heft and body. Hundreds of tube changes, and lots of equipment swaps. The Cary SLP 05 was the major player in this area. And going with a tube amp topped it off nicely. Then the tube swapping began, and I’ve finally found it. Hopefully the equipment marry-go-round is over for a while.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
Politeness.What elements of a stereo system contribute toward the sound having a palpable weight or body to it?
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Why are you so hung up on that?
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SVS SB16 has some heft and weight to it
my back says so -
I'm no engineer, nor do I pretend to be---but I do have an opinion that over-built power supplies definitely help in getting good depth and weight. I also believe that the speakers account for about 75% of it. The voicing "profile" of a speaker is important. Speakers with a "pear like" response tend to have a weighty, satisfying sound profile.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I'm no engineer, nor do I pretend to be---but I do have an opinion that over-built power supplies definitely help in getting good depth and weight. I also believe that the speakers account for about 75% of it. The voicing "profile" of a speaker is important. Speakers with a "pear like" response tend to have a weighty, satisfying sound profile.
Everything matters... I have heard some pretty small speakers that ordinarily would sound pretty weak, start punching well above their weight with the right gear doing the pushing.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Weight body and heft?
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
nooshinjohn wrote: »
Everything matters... I have heard some pretty small speakers that ordinarily would sound pretty weak, start punching well above their weight with the right gear doing the pushing.
I agree completely, back in the 90s and I bought my first NAD and I had been running a Sony reciever until that point. Not saying that NAD is super high end or anything, but it transformed the JBL’s I was running at the time. They sounded like different speakers. -
I also agree. If you think that changing one little thing isn’t going to matter, try it and see. I’m thinking that “heft” implies to some people that there is an abundance of bass. So those folks might build their systems from the bottom up. Others will start with the midrange and work out from there.
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Iron, my boys, really good iron!
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I have to put in a note for the right piece of front end gear and amp. That Musical Fidelity A5 was the single-most profound improvement for me in terms of weight and body.
I think I know that sense you're after, Drew. It's always been difficult for me to articulate, but your choice of terms helps to describe it. One of those things where I know when I hear it, and can sense when it's not quiiite there. I think it's that thing that gives us that sense that there's more there, but not quite accessible, and keeps us searching. I think I've also heard it simply described as musical fidelity, accurate or not.I disabled signatures. -
Just for the sake of clarity, I didn't make this thread as a result of any perceived or real "shortcomings" or "performance anxiety" in my own bedroom.
What? That's where my stereo is.
It's simply a topic designed to spark thought provoking discussion, by sharing relevant experiences in this area by those who have been in the hobby for longer than I have. -
Weight, body, and heft is what I look for in a shampoo and I am bald
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Stop looking at me swan
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joecoulson wrote: »Stop looking at me swan
He has your number Joe -
afterburnt wrote: »Weight, body, and heft is what I look for in a shampoo and I am bald
or if your a pig farmer.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
