Cambridge Audio Azur 851N in the house!

audioluvr

So I wanted to do an update on this. Yesterday I hooked up my pre to the 851N via new Monoprice XLR's and noticed a decrease in overall sound quality. I don't know if it was caused by the B&K or the CA. Thoughts? All contacts were cleaned with deoxit by the way so I know it's not dirty contacts.

ThomasD

Robert,
Been following this thread because I've also got the 851N and have really enjoyed it for the past year or so. Have only used it as a digital source with either my C1 or C2 Pre's through the M1.0t that came from you or my other M200t or M4.0t. I've noted nothing but stellar sound, including running an older Cambridge 351C through it. Do you still feel there's a decrease in SQ with your B&K?

audioluvr

Just using XLR's between the B&K and the CA. When using RCA IC's between the two it sounds awesome!

DSkip wrote: »

Regardless of what people say, there is still a difference in XLR cables and the quality they bring to the table.

Skip, I'm sure you're right. I am suspecting the B&K could be the issue but don't know as I don't have an extra pair of XLR's or a different pre with XLR outs to swap out and troubleshoot.

Clipdat

Clear as molasses there Skip.

audioluvr

I think what he's trying to say is with same brand/model cables there should be in increase in sound quality using the XLR's over the RCA's. With that said (I think?) I WAS comparing Monoprice XLR's and Monoprice IC's. The cables are different because one says it's shielded. So either the new XLR's are bad or???

Clipdat

audioluvr wrote: »

I think what he's trying to say is with same brand/model cables there should be in increase in sound quality using the XLR's over the RCA's. With that said (I think?) I WAS comparing Monoprice XLR's and Monoprice IC's. The cables are different because one says it's shielded. So either the new XLR's are bad or???

Try the new ones in place of the old ones for your pre to amp run, see if you notice anything detrimental.

audioluvr

My new ones are 0.5m long which is too short. I took them apart (because that's what guys do...) to see if they terminated them poorly or something and they look really good. And since both channels were equally bad I'm suspecting an issue with my B&K. I wouldn't think I'd have an issue with the CA since it's new. In the mean time I'm enjoying the sound via the RCA IC cables. I guess my next big purchase will eventually be a new pre. I missed out on a Cary SLP 03 because I spent all my money on a new vanity and granite countertop for my MBA. Oh well.

Clipdat

Try a different XLR input on the B&K or check to see if there's some software programming in there that could be applying something to that particular XLR input. I'm not an expert with the B&K units and their inner workings.

audioluvr

Clipdat wrote: »

Try a different XLR input on the B&K

Good idea. I'll try that.

audioluvr

Ya there is definately something hinky going on here. I have the RCA's going to the DVD input and the XLR's going to the CD input (I tried both) on the B&K with two different presets using the same volume output. Surprisingly there is no gain with the XLR's. Playing The Beatles' "Here comes the sun" on Tidal. Using the XLR's, the first thing I notice is a harshness to the highs and an overall loss of imaging detail. With the RCA interconnects I can immediately pinpoint the location of Paul and John and every instrument in a 3 dimensional array. The XLR's sound good but there is not that "Oh crap! I'm in the front row!" realism that I'm getting with the IC's

Overall it's hard to believe that my system could get any better right now. Though I say that everytime I upgrade something. Really digging this 851N!

Clipdat

audioluvr wrote: »

B&K with two different presets using the same volume output.

I still think there's something going on inside the B&K inadvertently affecting things.

This might not be a popular or shared opinion but I think that a B&K Pre/Pro like that is crappy, from the standpoint of doing serious/critical listening. The fact that it has accommodation for video signals, as well as all the internal processing circuitry means that for serious 2 channel purist stereo listening, it is an inherently flawed product.

Nothing personal against you or your setup, it's just my opinion.

tonyb

Don't sell it short just because it's a pre/pro. Many of the HT pre/pros are quite good for 2 channel. Anthem, Classe and Cary also come to mind.

Sure, they won't be as good as a dedicated separates system of good quality, especially with tubes in the mix, but they can be very satisfying for 2 channel in their own right.

audioluvr

Clipdat wrote: »

audioluvr wrote: »

B&K with two different presets using the same volume output.

I still think there's something going on inside the B&K inadvertently affecting things.

This might not be a popular or shared opinion but I think that a B&K Pre/Pro like that is crappy, from the standpoint of doing serious/critical listening. The fact that it has accommodation for video signals, as well as all the internal processing circuitry means that for serious 2 channel purist stereo listening, it is an inherently flawed product.

Nothing personal against you or your setup, it's just my opinion.

Duly noted. This pre/pro was picked up for $100. It was a noticeable upgrade from the Carver C-1 I had which was in dire need of a refresh and it had no remote... I respect everyone's opinion here otherwise I wouldn't hang out! Aside from all the extra crap inside that I don't use, I feel that it does a pretty good job of sound reproduction. My eventual goal though is to pick up a modern (ish) pre with a remote (because I'm a couch potato) like the Cary SLP 03.

joecoulson

In my system, using the CXN, going from AQ IC’s to a similarly priced XLR from the same brand produced not only a gain, but a slight increase in stage width. Not much more than that. But enough to warrant me keeping them.

audioluvr

So I had an epiphany last night while waiting for delivery of my new Wireworld Silver Eclipse XLR cables that I could test my XLR issue by running interconnects from the 851N directly to the amps. Using it as a preamp that way I could compare it to see if my XLR issue was that and not my cables or the B&K. Low and behold the warm, rich clarity with excellent imaging I observed using the B&K as a pre was also present in this configuration. Doing an A/B comparison showed almost identical results with the B&K possibly showing very slightly more low frequency response. Definitely something going on with the XLR outputs on the CA. Another thing I noticed when using the CA as a pre with XLR's was the gain was so much that volume 8 (1 is the lowest setting) was equivalent in SPL's to volume 26 using IC outputs.

I will need to contact CA and see what they think I should do. May need to send it in.

Clipdat

So what exactly did you test, and what were your conclusions/results? I'm sorry, but I don't follow your post.

tonyb

How do you know it isn't the XLR cables in that experiment ? Were you using analog cables when hooking up the CA to the amp ?

joecoulson

Yeah I have to concur, doesn’t really make sense. Not saying CA is infallible, just unlikely the cause.

audioluvr

So this is what I did I got a cheap decibel meter so I could compare different configurations at similar volumes and I basically played the same one or two test tracks that I like to use for testing purposes.

* When I hook up the 851N XLR outs to the amps XLR's inputs and using the 851N as a pre this causes a huge increase in gain and overbrightness in treble. With this configuration at volume #8 (1 being the lowest) I'm at about 80 decibels and there is a large jump from 8 to 9.

* When I hook up the 851N RCA outs to the amps RCA inputs it sounds good but a little bright with weaker low frequencies and the volume is set at 26 at 80 decibels.

* When I hook up the 851N XLR outs to the preamp XLR inputs and the preamp XLR outs to the amps XLR inputs I get a nominal gain (controlled by the preamps volume of course) and it's terribly bright.

* When I hook up the 851N RCA outs to the preamp RCA inputs and the preamp XLR outputs to the amp XLR inputs I get similar gain as the XLR's but the sound is rich, clear, deep with superb soundstage and imaging.

I'm using the same XLR's / RCA's from amp upstream to whichever I'm using as a pre.

I'm using the same brand and type XLR / RCA's from the CA to the B&K. Just can't imagine that there would be such a huge difference in sound and gain due to cables.

I never tested RCA's between the B&K pre and amps because it sounds great with XLR's

tonyb

* When I hook up the 851N RCA outs to the preamp RCA inputs and the preamp XLR outputs to the amp XLR inputs I get similar gain as the XLR's but the sound is rich, clear, deep with superb soundstage and imaging.
*
If your getting just about the same gain using the RCA outputs on the 851, then it can't be the 851.

What your hearing is the increase in gain from the XLR's from pre to amp. When using the 851 as a pre, your also using it's digital volume control, which can be a bit noisy and bright on some of these streamers.

Could just be a whacky impedance thing between the pieces and cables. Use whatever combo gives you the best sound. Also remember, because a piece has XLR inputs or outputs, doesn't mean it's a fully balanced one. My guess is one of those pieces may not be.

audioluvr

tonyb wrote: »

What your hearing is the increase in gain from the XLR's from pre to amp. When using the 851 as a pre, your also using it's digital volume control, which can be a bit noisy and bright on some of these streamers.

Could just be a whacky impedance thing between the pieces and cables. Use whatever combo gives you the best sound. Also remember, because a piece has XLR inputs or outputs, doesn't mean it's a fully balanced one. My guess is one of those pieces may not be.

Thanks Tony, That's what I'm doing. Was an exercise in futility at best.

gyosa

Old thread , but here goes anyways .....
The 851n and 851d are identical with the exception of the N having streaming abilities.....

Here’s some measurements....
Long read , but interesting, none the less ...
The volume control is excellent ....
The unit as a whole is excellent ....

Audioluvr , what did you do to solve the problem you were having ?


http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?43193-Cambridge-Audio-851D-excels-at-quot-budget-quot-price-point

Bk

allhifi

audioluvr wrote: »

Just picked up this pre off CL for $800! Just over a year old. The guy told me his wife made him get rid ALL of his stereo stuff. Poor idiot... This thing sounds amazing! Considering my next newest component is over 20 years old... Right now I have my laptop hooked to it via Bluetooth. Thanks all for helping me spend my money!

For sure, a nice piece (851N) Now, if only same could be said for those hi-fi racks !

pj

audioluvr

Ha! Table trays. Was using them to try to figure out if I wanted my amps positioned that way or in my rack. I wasn't able to look out the windows that way so I custom built my rack spacing / cooling system for symmetry.

gyosa

Looks like a B&K amp ?

Bk

Edit - never mind ... I saw original post ... sonata mono blocks .... nice !

audioluvr

Yes. M200 Sonata's