My speakers setup

mftohfa

Hey All,

Newbie here.Recently I moved into a new home where I was able to mount my tv and so began my upgrade itch. I started with monoprice 5.1 premium speakers which included a 200w sub, and 4 front and rear speakers. I also have the Polk T30 as my center.

Since the move, I upgraded my receiver to Onkyo 676. 7.1 ATMOS since the new house has some in ceiling speakers that was able to use. I also recently replaced my monoprice tiny fronts with Polk Signature S15's.

Now for the question:

I recently came across a deal from Adorama on the LSiM 704c. I pulled the trigger on it upgraded my center from T30 to LSiM 704c. I have only had it for a day but ran through calibration and everything but honestly I am not seeing a big difference nor am i blow away...almost sounds a little lower. What am I missing? Do i need time for it to break in?

Thanks for reading!
Ken

tonyb

Go into your receivers settings, speaker settings, and raise the center speaker level up a few notches.

Chances are, your receiver is running out of juice, not the most powerful in a 7 channel setup. Also, make sure you have it hooked up properly, and the straps on the back connecting the top and bottom posts are secure.

Willow

tonyb wrote: »

Go into your receivers settings, speaker settings, and raise the center speaker level up a few notches.

Chances are, your receiver is running out of juice, not the most powerful in a 7 channel setup. Also, make sure you have it hooked up properly, and the straps on the back connecting the top and bottom posts are secure.

and that you have the + to + and - to -

rpf65

Welcome.

The first thing you should understand is the your center channel speaker is a different series than your front left and right speakers. One of the signature series centers would have been a better choice.

The next thing to understand is that you want your speakers to compliment each other. You don’t want attention drawn to any specific speaker, especially the subwoofer or one of the front three. That’s what your calibration program is trying to achieve.

Third is that that center channel speaker is using a lot more power, current, than any of the others in your front sound stage. I personally use a separate amplifier, 200 watts per channel, for my LSIM speakers. Many people will say that the LSIM series speakers need a lot of power, current, to really operate the way they were designed to. To me they sound completely different, much better, with an amp versus an AVR.

When it comes to the speaker “sounding lower”. I suspect that your hearing the difference in the voicing, timbre, of the speaker. These signature and LSIM series are completely different designs. They use a different philosophy, if you will, to produce sound. So they sound completely different, even though they are made by the same company.

If you suspect a problem, check the binding post connections in the back. Make sure the top and bottom posts still have the jumper in place and all the nuts are tight. At low volume, put you ear close to each driver, and listen for sound and distortion. If all that’s good, you can boost the volume from the speaker adjustment on your AVR.

If your still not satisfied, look at the signature center channel speakers. It may be more agreeable to your ears.

mftohfa

Willow wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Go into your receivers settings, speaker settings, and raise the center speaker level up a few notches.

Chances are, your receiver is running out of juice, not the most powerful in a 7 channel setup. Also, make sure you have it hooked up properly, and the straps on the back connecting the top and bottom posts are secure.

and that you have the + to + and - to -

Thanks for the advice guys! I have double and triple checked that the polarities are correct.

Interestingly during calibration the receiver assigned a -1 to the center level. For whatever reason it thought it was louder then the other speakers. I set it back to 0.

My receiver is rated at 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms. I know the center is rated at 20 - 200 but talking to Polk tech support they had said it should work fine at 100 Watts.

Willow

do you happen to have some sort of EQ set to on? usually this would help bring out the centre but who knows

mftohfa

Willow wrote: »

do you happen to have some sort of EQ set to on? usually this would help bring out the centre but who knows

I have three different EQ presets I can configure on the receiver but I am not using them. I have only calibrated the speakers through the receiver.

mftohfa

rpf65 wrote: »

If you suspect a problem, check the binding post connections in the back. Make sure the top and bottom posts still have the jumper in place and all the nuts are tight. At low volume, put you ear close to each driver, and listen for sound and distortion. If all that’s good, you can boost the volume from the speaker adjustment on your AVR.

If your still not satisfied, look at the signature center channel speakers. It may be more agreeable to your ears.

So there are no top and bottom binding post on the 704c. Only one set. I have tried putting my ear to the speaker and everything sounds nice and crisp no distortion.

I am curious to know if there is a way for me to measure the watts pushing out the receiver using a multimeter?

F1nut

You're not understanding what you have been told. It's a $300.00 AVR, which means it is an entry level budget AVR, which means it's not all that. It is rated at 100wpc with only 2 channels driven. The more channels it drives means the wpc drop like a boulder because it doesn't have the power supply to maintain that kind of output.

Your speakers are not matched either in basic design or voicing. The Signature series are going to be more foward sounding regardless of the AVR settings, hence your LSiM center is going to sound softer. You should return the LSiM and get one of the Signature centers.

tonyb

mftohfa wrote: »

Willow wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Go into your receivers settings, speaker settings, and raise the center speaker level up a few notches.

Chances are, your receiver is running out of juice, not the most powerful in a 7 channel setup. Also, make sure you have it hooked up properly, and the straps on the back connecting the top and bottom posts are secure.

and that you have the + to + and - to -

My receiver is rated at 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms. I know the center is rated at 20 - 200 but talking to Polk tech support they had said it should work fine at 100 Watts.

Your receiver is most likely rated at 100 watts...with 2 channels driven. By the time you add up to 7 speakers, that power rating will probably be around 30-40 watts.

Like already stated too, it's the wrong center for what you have as the fronts, different voicing. That's most likely the difference in what your hearing. Turn that center channel level up past 0 if you want more from it, like +3.

mftohfa

Ok will give that a shot or might just go with the S30 center. Thanks!

steveinaz

Welcome Ken, I'm a 2-channel dinosaur, but there's plenty of HT pros around here.

mrloren

mftohfa wrote: »

Ok will give that a shot or might just go with the S30 center. Thanks!

Yes the S30 will serve you much better than the 704c. S30 doesn't need as much power and matches the S15. Maybe look at an S35 that you can wall mount under the TV.

I'd send the 704 back and see if you can return the Onkyo too. Denon Marantz or Yamaha are much better.

Jimbo18

Welcome to the forum, Ken. If you were looking for help spending your money, you came to the right place. Oh, and for help with your setup too, of course.

mftohfa

Thank you @Jimbo18! I see nothing is easy or simple when doing a setup. Just like life...

Well so I might not be able to return the LSIM 704c. Adorama is giving me a hard time about returning the speaker. They are not replying to my email, over the phone they asked me the email them pics of the speaker to check the box and speaker is in good condition. I think they will also charge me for shipping to and from if i return it. Might not be worth it if they charge me $20+ dollars for shipping each way. Lesson learned I shouldn't have bought from them. Amazon is a much safer place to buy from.

QUESTION:

if I cannot return the LISM 704c. What are my options? I can return the S15's I have still. I cannot return the receiver like @mrloren had suggested. Its already past 30 days since I purchased it and to be honest, i am happy with it. It was a big step up from the Yamaha 377 that I had.

What other front speakers will work with the LSIM center? I need something that is 12" or narrowish floor standing which is not super expensive.

Thanks in advance.

K_M

I have only had it for a day but ran through calibration and everything but honestly I am not seeing a big difference nor am i blow away...almost sounds a little lower. What am I missing? Do i need time for it to break in?

If you are using a sub, it is highly doubtful your receiver is causing any issue or limitations, since the bass should be crossed at 80hz or so.

You mention not seeing a "big difference" or being "Blown away" with the new center channel speaker. More specifically are you talking sound quality or clarity or simple loudness in comparison with the original center?

The lsim center should sound somewhat better for sure, and be smoother and less forward perhaps, but honestly, not sure I can say you would be "Blown away" with the difference. It should be more refined, smoother and a bit clearer and so on, but give it some time. Voices should sound more realistic etc, but you may have become used to the original speaker.

Legender

And... looking at the back of that Onkyo, there are no preouts so adding an amplifier to boost the wattage to the speakers is out of the question. Good thing you like it. The best speaker pair for matching to the center are the LSiM 705 or 703s. 703s are cheaper of course as they are bookshelf speakers but give you quite a bit of bang for the buck. Might be able to find a pair for $600 if you've got some patience.
If you'd move to AVR that supports preouts and then add a separate amp, you'd have even a bigger step up. But we can save that for the next upgrade. Welcome to the club.

rooftop59

The lsiM series is basically the only Polk series that really won’t play too nice with any other series. Very different tweeter, more demanding power wise. Your reciever will drive some 703s, that would be your best bet but a lot more expensive. You can find them for $600 as mentioned but may take some time and patience.

Jimbo18

If you don't want to spend the money on the 703's right now, I would just use the S15 as your fronts until they are on sale and you can spare the extra money.

Or bite the bullet and pay the shipping to return the 704c and get one of the two Signature centers, either one will be cheaper than what you spent on the LSIM, even with the return shipping cost.

rooftop59

Jimbo18 wrote: »

Or bite the bullet and pay the shipping to return the 704c and get one of the two Signature centers, either one will be cheaper than what you spent on the LSIM, even with the return shipping cost.

I think this makes the most sense given your receiver which has limited power and not preouts. A Signature series setup will complement that receiver well and be very enjoyable for a long time...

mftohfa

Thanks guys that makes a lot of sense. I think that is what I will do.

Willow

If it's not too late return the centre and your avr run 2.1 and get a beefier avr with pre-outs.

Jimbo18

mftohfa wrote: »

Thanks guys that makes a lot of sense. I think that is what I will do.

https://parkergwen.com/products/two-way-center-channel-speaker-each

nice price on what is generally the preferred Signature center.

mftohfa

K_M wrote: »

If you are using a sub, it is highly doubtful your receiver is causing any issue or limitations, since the bass should be crossed at 80hz or so.

You mention not seeing a "big difference" or being "Blown away" with the new center channel speaker. More specifically are you talking sound quality or clarity or simple loudness in comparison with the original center?

The lsim center should sound somewhat better for sure, and be smoother and less forward perhaps, but honestly, not sure I can say you would be "Blown away" with the difference. It should be more refined, smoother and a bit clearer and so on, but give it some time. Voices should sound more realistic etc, but you may have become used to the original speaker.

Just read this, You make a lot of sense here. Yes I have a sub and I have everything crossing over to the sub at 70 hz. When I say I wasnt blown away, I was expecting a distinct difference in vocals even at low volume. I didnt notice that. In general things seems cleaner but I cant say for sure if its the new center or the new S15's. Maybe the mistake I made is that I upgraded both in a short amount of time.

Turns out Adorama just got back to me and said they will take it back, without shipping costs. So now I have the option to either return the center and get the S30 or return the S15s and get different front LR' speakers...this is even more difficult now.

Willow

mftohfa wrote: »

K_M wrote: »

If you are using a sub, it is highly doubtful your receiver is causing any issue or limitations, since the bass should be crossed at 80hz or so.

You mention not seeing a "big difference" or being "Blown away" with the new center channel speaker. More specifically are you talking sound quality or clarity or simple loudness in comparison with the original center?

The lsim center should sound somewhat better for sure, and be smoother and less forward perhaps, but honestly, not sure I can say you would be "Blown away" with the difference. It should be more refined, smoother and a bit clearer and so on, but give it some time. Voices should sound more realistic etc, but you may have become used to the original speaker.

Just read this, You make a lot of sense here. Yes I have a sub and I have everything crossing over to the sub at 70 hz. When I say I wasnt blown away, I was expecting a distinct difference in vocals even at low volume. I didnt notice that. In general things seems cleaner but I cant say for sure if its the new center or the new S15's. Maybe the mistake I made is that I upgraded both in a short amount of time.

Turns out Adorama just got back to me and said they will take it back, without shipping costs. So now I have the option to either return the center and get the S30 or return the S15s and get different front LR' speakers...this is even more difficult now.

Your AVR is not meant to be paired with LSIs, your best bet is return the centre and get a matching one.

mrloren

The signatures are nice speakers. I'd go with returning the 704c and getting either the S30 or S35.

LSIm like a lot of power more than your AVR can deliver.

mftohfa

Thanks guys looks like its pretty unanimous that I should return the LISM and get the S30 or S35. So I will do that.

Any recommendation between the two? I dont have the height limitation between the S30 and S35. S30 is significantly cheaper than S35. Not sure which one is better.

Jimbo18

I haven't heard either but most of the posts on here have indicated the S30 is the better speaker. It has fewer drivers but they are much bigger.

mftohfa

mftohfa wrote: »

Thanks guys looks like its pretty unanimous that I should return the LISM and get the S30 or S35. So I will do that.

Any recommendation between the two? I dont have the height limitation between the S30 and S35. S30 is significantly cheaper than S35. Not sure which one is better.

Cool...once again. Bigger is better

mrloren

If you have to room an S30 is the way to go. Has a much fuller sound than the S35.

S35 is a slim speaker made for a more special placement, like in front of the TV or wall mounted.

sponger

I didn't hear any improvement at all from adding a 704c to a pair of 705 until I heard it play multi-channel music from SACD. Then it was simply jaw-dropping how smooth and transparent singers' voices became. Other than that, it was just there to make dialog more audible during movies, which is something basically any center will do. So, I think the problem is that you expect to be wowed by a center. I seriously doubt that will ever happen with some rare exceptions I guess. Sure there are people who swear by their center channels. I'll acknowledge that.

But, unless there was something wrong with the previous speakers, a speaker upgrade even on the magnitude of the LSiM won't make average / poor recordings sound better. If anything, you'll hear more of the imperfection. You're not going to hear the real potential of that series unless they're hooked up to the right gear. Otherwise, you're just going to hear more of the same that you had already been hearing, which actually sounds like what happened. You stated that it just sounds the same, not better or worse. I would call that a success, and I would not blame Adorama for putting up resistance to a customer that was basically browsing / experimenting in this case. Those prices are basically close-out prices, and they're prices that would be untenable if customers could simply return items on a whim.