Carver TFM's with RTi12's?

What's the feeling here of paring Carver amps with the RTi's? I keep reading to go with B&K or Parasound but the price of the used Carvers are more in range ($300-400).

Thanks for any input!

Comments

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,964
    The Carvers will need a recap if they have not already been done. Everything below the TFM 45 is not very well regarded. I might take a look at the M-500 as well. The meters on that one are rather nice to watch, and it sounds really good to boot.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds



    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,448
    Agree with what John said and M500t might be a little warmer. B7K also makes a solid amp and usually can find them in the 300-400 range. Any of the 3 you mentioned would be decent.
    Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,
    USB helpers: w4s Recovery
    Living Room Elite SC27, LSI25, SDA 3.1TL
    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,637
    The Carver M-500t would be a nice pairing with those speakers. Second choice would be a M4.0t. Both will pair nicely.

    Now, John, you forgot about the TFM15cb. That one had a killer sound signature. Not much umph but really smooth sounding.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,964
    Never heard one Tom, but that thing is almost a flea-powered amp compared to the rest.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds



    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,637
    Can't dispute that.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 616
    I like the early US made Carver amps. My first true stereo system was the M500t and Polk SDA2b's. If you can find a low hour amp that was not abused, chances are it will still sound good. 1.0, 1.5 and 4.0's are still very capable amps. I have not heard anything in the TFM line but they can't be all bad.
    Home System: see
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    WireWorld Mini-Eclipse 7 speaker cables
    800 Va Dreadnought
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • PSOVLSKPSOVLSK Posts: 3,814
    I really liked my Carver TFM 45 and TFM 55, but I never paired them with RTi's. Great amps and run cool as a cucumber.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 12,121
    TFM45 and M4.0t are the same amp in different colors from what I always understood. M4.0t is the earliest of the two.
    Still both will need recapped and maybe other work.
  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 653
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    TFM45 and M4.0t are the same amp in different colors from what I always understood. M4.0t is the earliest of the two.
    Still both will need recapped and maybe other work.

    Correct, the “M” series came before the “TFM” series.

    M 4.0t, TFM 42, TFM 45 are all the same basic amp, with minor variations in the damping circuit. FWIW, the 4.0t is the preferred model, as it seems to have less of an issue with turn on/off thump/squeal. There are about 12 service bullitins that need to be performed on a 45, where the 4.0 has 3. Recap cost is the same, and both models will be in need.
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,637
    You do NOT want to pair these speakers with the M1.0t. The end result will be very bad. Bright, shrill, scrape the chalkboard with fingernails type of bad. Definetely not a good pairing right there.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,964
    Agreed. I had one of those and it was not a good experience. BTW, does anyone know where the OP went?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds



    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 12,637
    I don't.

    I would use the M1.0t for an external sub amp. For that, it's great.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 616
    BTW, does anyone know where the OP went?

    Crazy?
    Home System: see
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    WireWorld Mini-Eclipse 7 speaker cables
    800 Va Dreadnought
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 12,121
    Careful my man
  • BC6BC6 Posts: 80
    I have a TFM25 with an old Nakamichi PA-1 (a 5 channel home theater pre amp) running my SDA CRS+speakers but I'm not a huge fan of the sound. It's thin and whiny. There's a lot of options for what to fix/replace, but until I read this thread, I didn't think the amp could be one of the problems. I'm planning on doing the TL upgrade on the speakers when I have time and money. How much do you think it would cost to recap the TFM25 and is it worth it? I use this system mostly to play around with equipment without spending tons of money so I'm not looking to spend a lot.
    2 Channel: Polk Audio SDA SRS 2.3tl with Clarity CMR caps and Gaia II speaker feet, Atoll IN300 integrated amp, SotM sMS-200 ultra streamer, SotM sPS-500 power supply, and infinite baffle subwoofer with two Fi Audio IB318 drivers.

    HT: Polk Audio speakers: 2.3tl front, CSiA6 center, 500-LS ceiling, RT/FX, RTi8, Monitor 4 rears, and IB subwoofer, Yamaha CX-a5100 AV Preamplifier/Processor, Yamaha MX-a5000 11.1 channel amplifier, Sony XBR55-AE1 OLED TV.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 616
    edited January 5
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Careful my man

    Sorry. Forgot we are being watched.
    Home System: see
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    WireWorld Mini-Eclipse 7 speaker cables
    800 Va Dreadnought
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,964
    audioluvr wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Careful my man

    Sorry. Forgot we are being watched.

    There is a chill in the air, and it ain't coming from old man winter....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds



    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 12,121
    BC6 wrote: »
    I have a TFM25 with an old Nakamichi PA-1 (a 5 channel home theater pre amp) running my SDA CRS+speakers but I'm not a huge fan of the sound. It's thin and whiny. There's a lot of options for what to fix/replace, but until I read this thread, I didn't think the amp could be one of the problems. I'm planning on doing the TL upgrade on the speakers when I have time and money. How much do you think it would cost to recap the TFM25 and is it worth it? I use this system mostly to play around with equipment without spending tons of money so I'm not looking to spend a lot.

    Contact Roland at

    http://carveraudiorepair.com/hitechaudioltd/workmod.html

    He has done a lot if work for my and is very very good at the Carver stuff. I have both the TFM25 and TFM45 both completely rebuilt and with some film caps in good places. I never found my TFM25 to be as you described. BOTH did sound much better after Roland worked his magic. There has always been a long wait time in the past but worth IMO
  • erniejadeerniejade Posts: 4,448
    Agreed on Roland. When i had a c-19 and sunfire sig II, both went to him.
    Lumin D1,Wireworld Silver Eclipse, KEF LS50 Wireless, Velodyne SPL1200, Technics 1200, Denon DL160, Jolida D9,
    USB helpers: w4s Recovery
    Living Room Elite SC27, LSI25, SDA 3.1TL
    Have but haven't used in a while: LH Labs VI Dac, Cayin SCD50T

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 12,121
    edited January 5
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    BC6 wrote: »
    I have a TFM25 with an old Nakamichi PA-1 (a 5 channel home theater pre amp) running my SDA CRS+speakers but I'm not a huge fan of the sound. It's thin and whiny. There's a lot of options for what to fix/replace, but until I read this thread, I didn't think the amp could be one of the problems. I'm planning on doing the TL upgrade on the speakers when I have time and money. How much do you think it would cost to recap the TFM25 and is it worth it? I use this system mostly to play around with equipment without spending tons of money so I'm not looking to spend a lot.

    Contact Roland at

    http://carveraudiorepair.com/hitechaudioltd/workmod.html

    He has done a lot if work for me and is very very good at the Carver stuff. I have both the TFM25 and TFM45 both completely rebuilt and with some film caps in good places. I never found my TFM25 to be as you described. BOTH did sound much better after Roland worked his magic. There has always been a long wait time in the past but worth IMO


    Fixed it !!

    Junk vanilla said i had 60sec. then said i needed vanilla permission to edit......

  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,964
    Looks like we are talking to the wind anyway....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds



    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • BC6BC6 Posts: 80
    Thanks for the info. I’m intrigued. I’ll see if I have money for it after paying for the dreadnaught. I suspect my weak link is the preamp more than the amp but I’d like to hear the TFM fixed up.
    2 Channel: Polk Audio SDA SRS 2.3tl with Clarity CMR caps and Gaia II speaker feet, Atoll IN300 integrated amp, SotM sMS-200 ultra streamer, SotM sPS-500 power supply, and infinite baffle subwoofer with two Fi Audio IB318 drivers.

    HT: Polk Audio speakers: 2.3tl front, CSiA6 center, 500-LS ceiling, RT/FX, RTi8, Monitor 4 rears, and IB subwoofer, Yamaha CX-a5100 AV Preamplifier/Processor, Yamaha MX-a5000 11.1 channel amplifier, Sony XBR55-AE1 OLED TV.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 616
    BC6 wrote: »
    I suspect my weak link is the preamp...

    Easy to spend a ton of money and time on amps with little improvement if your upstream is side is subpar. Don't ask me how I know...
    Home System: see
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    WireWorld Mini-Eclipse 7 speaker cables
    800 Va Dreadnought
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 18,964
    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9a8ch-classe-cp-35-with-phono-stage-solid-state

    This will significantly up the preamp portion of your setup for little cash, but it is two channel only. not sure if it has HT bypass.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Stradivari v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X1 preamplifier Signed by Poppa himself, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds



    Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.

  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,397
    Wow, that's a great price on that Classe pre. Don't think I ever seen one that cheap.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 616
    I hope the OP jumped on that because it is G. O. N. E. gone!
    Home System: see
    SDA 1C's - Full mod with the help by Dave...
    WireWorld Mini-Eclipse 7 speaker cables
    800 Va Dreadnought
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
    Sangean HD FM Tuner

    Barn system:
    SDA SRS 2.3's Full mod done by myself
    Carver C-1 pre
    Carver M1.5t
  • imsjryimsjry Posts: 45
    Thanks all! Missed that offering unfortunately. I ended up bidding on a B&K 202+. Fingers crossed!
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