Carver TFM's with RTi12's?

imsjry
imsjry Posts: 120
in 2 Channel Audio
What's the feeling here of paring Carver amps with the RTi's? I keep reading to go with B&K or Parasound but the price of the used Carvers are more in range ($300-400).

Thanks for any input!
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    The Carvers will need a recap if they have not already been done. Everything below the TFM 45 is not very well regarded. I might take a look at the M-500 as well. The meters on that one are rather nice to watch, and it sounds really good to boot.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    Agree with what John said and M500t might be a little warmer. B7K also makes a solid amp and usually can find them in the 300-400 range. Any of the 3 you mentioned would be decent.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,028
    The Carver M-500t would be a nice pairing with those speakers. Second choice would be a M4.0t. Both will pair nicely.

    Now, John, you forgot about the TFM15cb. That one had a killer sound signature. Not much umph but really smooth sounding.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    Never heard one Tom, but that thing is almost a flea-powered amp compared to the rest.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,028
    Can't dispute that.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    I like the early US made Carver amps. My first true stereo system was the M500t and Polk SDA2b's. If you can find a low hour amp that was not abused, chances are it will still sound good. 1.0, 1.5 and 4.0's are still very capable amps. I have not heard anything in the TFM line but they can't be all bad.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,201
    I really liked my Carver TFM 45 and TFM 55, but I never paired them with RTi's. Great amps and run cool as a cucumber.
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    TFM45 and M4.0t are the same amp in different colors from what I always understood. M4.0t is the earliest of the two.
    Still both will need recapped and maybe other work.
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  • daddyjt
    daddyjt Posts: 2,505
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    TFM45 and M4.0t are the same amp in different colors from what I always understood. M4.0t is the earliest of the two.
    Still both will need recapped and maybe other work.

    Correct, the “M” series came before the “TFM” series.

    M 4.0t, TFM 42, TFM 45 are all the same basic amp, with minor variations in the damping circuit. FWIW, the 4.0t is the preferred model, as it seems to have less of an issue with turn on/off thump/squeal. There are about 12 service bullitins that need to be performed on a 45, where the 4.0 has 3. Recap cost is the same, and both models will be in need.
    "Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow


    “Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,028
    You do NOT want to pair these speakers with the M1.0t. The end result will be very bad. Bright, shrill, scrape the chalkboard with fingernails type of bad. Definetely not a good pairing right there.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    Agreed. I had one of those and it was not a good experience. BTW, does anyone know where the OP went?
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,028
    I don't.

    I would use the M1.0t for an external sub amp. For that, it's great.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    nooshinjohn wrote: »
    BTW, does anyone know where the OP went?

    Crazy?
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    Careful my man
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  • BC6
    BC6 Posts: 109
    I have a TFM25 with an old Nakamichi PA-1 (a 5 channel home theater pre amp) running my SDA CRS+speakers but I'm not a huge fan of the sound. It's thin and whiny. There's a lot of options for what to fix/replace, but until I read this thread, I didn't think the amp could be one of the problems. I'm planning on doing the TL upgrade on the speakers when I have time and money. How much do you think it would cost to recap the TFM25 and is it worth it? I use this system mostly to play around with equipment without spending tons of money so I'm not looking to spend a lot.
    2 Channel: Atohm GT-1 speakers, Atoll IN400 integrated amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB with Ortofon Bronze cartridge, SotM sMS-200 ultra streamer, SotM sPS-500 power supply, and homemade infinite baffle subwoofer with two Fi Audio IB318 drivers.

    HT: All Polk: SDA 2.3tl fronts, CSiA6 center, 500-LS ceiling, RT/FX, RTi8, Monitor 4 rears, plus Yamaha CX-a5100 AV Preamplifier/Processor, Yamaha MX-a5000 11.1 channel amplifier, and Sony XBR55-AE1 OLED TV.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    edited January 2019
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Careful my man

    Sorry. Forgot we are being watched.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    audioluvr wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Careful my man

    Sorry. Forgot we are being watched.

    There is a chill in the air, and it ain't coming from old man winter....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    BC6 wrote: »
    I have a TFM25 with an old Nakamichi PA-1 (a 5 channel home theater pre amp) running my SDA CRS+speakers but I'm not a huge fan of the sound. It's thin and whiny. There's a lot of options for what to fix/replace, but until I read this thread, I didn't think the amp could be one of the problems. I'm planning on doing the TL upgrade on the speakers when I have time and money. How much do you think it would cost to recap the TFM25 and is it worth it? I use this system mostly to play around with equipment without spending tons of money so I'm not looking to spend a lot.

    Contact Roland at

    http://carveraudiorepair.com/hitechaudioltd/workmod.html

    He has done a lot if work for my and is very very good at the Carver stuff. I have both the TFM25 and TFM45 both completely rebuilt and with some film caps in good places. I never found my TFM25 to be as you described. BOTH did sound much better after Roland worked his magic. There has always been a long wait time in the past but worth IMO
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    Agreed on Roland. When i had a c-19 and sunfire sig II, both went to him.
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    edited January 2019
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    BC6 wrote: »
    I have a TFM25 with an old Nakamichi PA-1 (a 5 channel home theater pre amp) running my SDA CRS+speakers but I'm not a huge fan of the sound. It's thin and whiny. There's a lot of options for what to fix/replace, but until I read this thread, I didn't think the amp could be one of the problems. I'm planning on doing the TL upgrade on the speakers when I have time and money. How much do you think it would cost to recap the TFM25 and is it worth it? I use this system mostly to play around with equipment without spending tons of money so I'm not looking to spend a lot.

    Contact Roland at

    http://carveraudiorepair.com/hitechaudioltd/workmod.html

    He has done a lot if work for me and is very very good at the Carver stuff. I have both the TFM25 and TFM45 both completely rebuilt and with some film caps in good places. I never found my TFM25 to be as you described. BOTH did sound much better after Roland worked his magic. There has always been a long wait time in the past but worth IMO


    Fixed it !!

    Junk vanilla said i had 60sec. then said i needed vanilla permission to edit......

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    Looks like we are talking to the wind anyway....
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • BC6
    BC6 Posts: 109
    Thanks for the info. I’m intrigued. I’ll see if I have money for it after paying for the dreadnaught. I suspect my weak link is the preamp more than the amp but I’d like to hear the TFM fixed up.
    2 Channel: Atohm GT-1 speakers, Atoll IN400 integrated amp, PS Audio DirectStream DAC, PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter, Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB with Ortofon Bronze cartridge, SotM sMS-200 ultra streamer, SotM sPS-500 power supply, and homemade infinite baffle subwoofer with two Fi Audio IB318 drivers.

    HT: All Polk: SDA 2.3tl fronts, CSiA6 center, 500-LS ceiling, RT/FX, RTi8, Monitor 4 rears, plus Yamaha CX-a5100 AV Preamplifier/Processor, Yamaha MX-a5000 11.1 channel amplifier, and Sony XBR55-AE1 OLED TV.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    BC6 wrote: »
    I suspect my weak link is the preamp...

    Easy to spend a ton of money and time on amps with little improvement if your upstream is side is subpar. Don't ask me how I know...
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,415
    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9a8ch-classe-cp-35-with-phono-stage-solid-state

    This will significantly up the preamp portion of your setup for little cash, but it is two channel only. not sure if it has HT bypass.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    Wow, that's a great price on that Classe pre. Don't think I ever seen one that cheap.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,584
    I hope the OP jumped on that because it is G. O. N. E. gone!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • imsjry
    imsjry Posts: 120
    Thanks all! Missed that offering unfortunately. I ended up bidding on a B&K 202+. Fingers crossed!
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