LSIM 703 vs LSIM 707 when already running a sub. Need your opinion

Trying to decide upgrading between lsim703s and lsim707s (there is a good sale on both).
Currently I have:

2x RTI A9
CSI A6
2X FXI A6
SVS SB13 Ultra
Onkyo RZ810 receiver
Parasound 5250 power amp

Im running the towers, center and surrounds off the Parasound (5x 250 watts RMS per channel). Room size is closer to large size and I listen to music 70% of the time. Would like to switch to the LSIM series as Ive heard reviews they are better for music.

1) If running the SB13 Ultra, are 703s enough? For only $1000 more or so I could get the 707s but would that be overkill? Are the 703s the same as the 707 tower without the big woofers? Are those woofers really needed if using a seperate sub? How would the subs built in the 707s sound if using a seperate sub as well. I usually cross my towers over at 70 or 80 hz. Ive never heard either of these speakers in person.

2) How would either of the LSIM series sound with my CSI A6 and FXI A6s. I know it's not ideal to not timbre match but would it still sound ok? Or would I need to get LSIM series center and surrounds?

Any help is much appreciated, thanks.

Comments

  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 2,002
    I have 705’s in about a 450 square foot room, and they work well. If your close to that size, the 705’s are a good choice. I run them full range with music, sub crossed over at 60 Hz, just sound better. The sub works, but just sounds like a different speaker to my ears, if that makes any sense.

    Personally I like floor standing speakers. Even those that hate the looks of them want to watch a third or fourth movie, once they hear them. As compared to the 703’s, well going from the RTI A9’s to 703’s may make your room look less manly, but should sound good.

    Can’t speak about the center channel, most people prefer the front three timbre matched, some could care less. If you don’t like the CSI A6 with the LSI M’s, guess that makes the next purchase an easy one.

    Using RTI A series as the other six speakers, only listen to music using 2-channels. As far as HT, the FXI A6 works very well with the LSI M’s. I like the extra brightness for surrounds. Just seems to work well with my gear in my room.
  • Ive heard the 705s are the best balanced. Unfortunately the sale is only for 707s or 703s. I'm wondering if getting the 707s is worth it? If I cross my mains at 80 hz to allow the SB13 Ultra to do the heavy lifting, how much are the 6x9 woofers in the 707s actually going to make a difference as opposed to using 703s as mains.
  • msgmsg Posts: 4,875
    I haven't heard 707s, but in the main space, I prefer 703s with sub vs. 705s. And even over 705s with the sub, for that matter. However, I have large-ish space/weird room that's got a bass suck-out, so I need the sub.

    The 705s in that room sound thin, and are "perceived" to have lower output at a given volume vs 703s, even in 2ch only, no sub.

    So, what size is your space, exactly? That would be helpful.
    Are there any existing sound or performance issues to address?


    I've found that 705s are, indeed, very nice in the proper space, though. Beautiful sound and performance, actually, and no sub necessary. And I like fat full sound and great bass performance, so for me, that's saying something. This is for music. HT I think you'd need/want a sub always for the best performance.


    Regarding #2, the timbre matching - just depends how picky you are on HT performance. Ideally, you'd at least want the front 3 matching for more seamless performance, but it's not uncommon here to see owners note that RTiA outperforms LSiM in theater detail. I noticed this both with RTi/CSi and Signature Series. Most of the performance is from the center channel as I understand it, so keeping your CSiA6, you may not notice much difference.

    Side note re: timbre matching - for several weeks I was evaluating Signature S20s where I was previously running LSiM703s along with the LSiM706c center. I wasn't bothered by the timbre mismatch of the S20s and 706c, but I did notice that the S20s seemed better detailed enough that I noticed the difference. The RTiA series is even more detailed than the Signature Series, so it's not quite the same as the difference between RTiA and LSiM, not to mention, you'd be moving to a "smoother" sounding main, and the difference may be more noticeable. I'd suspect worst case, with the center being most active, you may find the LSiM mains to seem a little soft in comparison.
    I disabled signatures.
  • My room size is 18 x 15.5 and that opens up to a kitchen area as well. I dont have much room behind main speakers. I would want to use my SVS sub with either the 703s and 707s. Is the upgrade from 703 to 707 only worth it if you're crossing the mains over at say 50 hz or running them full range? I plan on leaving my mains crossed at 70 or 80 and letting the SVS sub handle below that.
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,450
    The 703's with the SB13 Ultra sub would cover any music that you could throw at them. With the saving, get the 706c center when it goes on sale and keep your surrounds.

    Who has the LSiM on sale right now? Adorama via the links at slickdeals.net? All of the links are still up but not sure if the sale is still on. The cherry 705's for $999 link is still active also.

    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 305
    Get the LSiM 707. They sound great without a sub and probably even better for the lowest octave. They are basically 703 on the top quarter with twin dual driver subs. I drive mine biwired with a McIntosh MC452 which can really pressurize a room.
    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk LSiM 707 | McIntosh C47 | Macintosh MC452 | Denon DP-2500A | Oppo BDP-103 | MacMini
    Living Room Music parallel system-2.0 Klipsch RP600-M | PASS ACA Class A Balanced Monoblocks fed by C47 XLR Out 2
    Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSi25, Martin Logan Motion 50xt, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, fx500, T15, RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | McIntosh MA5200 HT-passthrough & independent 2.0 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
    Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, T15 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Xbox 360 MCE | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
    Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080
    Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
    Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
    Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Living Room (Optical), MA5200 (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). MacMini iTunes multi-stream to any, combo or all.
    Spares: Polk LSiC, CS300, T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, Sony CDP-491, STR DE715, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500
    Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
  • How would the 703s compare to my RTI A9 towers? Also was wondering if the woofers in the 707s would sound boomy and not blend well with the SVS sub. If I switch to LSIM series I wanted to get 706C eventually but only a 704C would fit on my shelf. The link was still showing at Adorma maybe that sale wasnt extended.
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 305
    edited December 2018
    Room interaction and speaker placement relative to the listening position can affect boomyness of any speaker. I’m sure a properly blended sub will work to help deepen the already decent low end. The sub will also probably help as you crank up the the volume, especially in a large room.

    Some purists dismiss the use of a sub. A for me I have 4 subs but only use them in HT applications where they excel in LFE, the source material is already digitally sourced and is processed through a receiver which has room EQ such as Audyssey xt32 so you get proper volume, phasing and time alignment.

    Here is what an LSiM 707 looks like in my room 15x25 with a large rug in the middle and minimal treatment. It’s not ruler straight but workable.

    xuvx1t5no593.jpeg
    n7xgobukm207.jpeg
    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk LSiM 707 | McIntosh C47 | Macintosh MC452 | Denon DP-2500A | Oppo BDP-103 | MacMini
    Living Room Music parallel system-2.0 Klipsch RP600-M | PASS ACA Class A Balanced Monoblocks fed by C47 XLR Out 2
    Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSi25, Martin Logan Motion 50xt, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, fx500, T15, RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | McIntosh MA5200 HT-passthrough & independent 2.0 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
    Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, T15 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Xbox 360 MCE | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
    Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080
    Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
    Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
    Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Living Room (Optical), MA5200 (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). MacMini iTunes multi-stream to any, combo or all.
    Spares: Polk LSiC, CS300, T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, Sony CDP-491, STR DE715, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500
    Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
  • msgmsg Posts: 4,875
    @mpitogo, how did you measure the output like that? Pretty cool.
    I disabled signatures.
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 305
    Anthem Room Correction (ARC) software on a PC.
    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk LSiM 707 | McIntosh C47 | Macintosh MC452 | Denon DP-2500A | Oppo BDP-103 | MacMini
    Living Room Music parallel system-2.0 Klipsch RP600-M | PASS ACA Class A Balanced Monoblocks fed by C47 XLR Out 2
    Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSi25, Martin Logan Motion 50xt, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, fx500, T15, RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | McIntosh MA5200 HT-passthrough & independent 2.0 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
    Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, T15 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Xbox 360 MCE | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
    Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080
    Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
    Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
    Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Living Room (Optical), MA5200 (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). MacMini iTunes multi-stream to any, combo or all.
    Spares: Polk LSiC, CS300, T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, Sony CDP-491, STR DE715, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500
    Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
  • spongersponger Posts: 325
    edited December 2018
    Did the 707 cause the software to detect phase issues? I've been told Audyssey will consistently do that because of the 3 ways, and that it should be ignored. Also, is that a Salamander rack?
    Post edited by sponger on
    Denon AVR 3312CI
    S15
    Sony 790S
    Denon DP 300f
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 305
    edited December 2018
    No phase issues and yes salamander. What does trip Audyssey phase detection is my LSi25.
    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk LSiM 707 | McIntosh C47 | Macintosh MC452 | Denon DP-2500A | Oppo BDP-103 | MacMini
    Living Room Music parallel system-2.0 Klipsch RP600-M | PASS ACA Class A Balanced Monoblocks fed by C47 XLR Out 2
    Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSi25, Martin Logan Motion 50xt, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, fx500, T15, RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | McIntosh MA5200 HT-passthrough & independent 2.0 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
    Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, T15 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Xbox 360 MCE | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
    Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080
    Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
    Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
    Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Living Room (Optical), MA5200 (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). MacMini iTunes multi-stream to any, combo or all.
    Spares: Polk LSiC, CS300, T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, Sony CDP-491, STR DE715, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500
    Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,450
    edited December 2018
    PolkGuy98 wrote: »
    How would the 703s compare to my RTI A9 towers? Also was wondering if the woofers in the 707s would sound boomy and not blend well with the SVS sub. If I switch to LSIM series I wanted to get 706C eventually but only a 704C would fit on my shelf. The link was still showing at Adorma maybe that sale wasnt extended.
    For starters, the 703's will be much smaller than the huge 48" tall, 21" deep A9's. Even on stands you might like or not like this visual difference. As far as sound, the LSiM line is better at all that the RTiA does. Some will say that the RTiA has a more forward sound. The 703's otoh sound much larger than their size and IMO had a fuller sound than some tower speakers that I had. They have some punch to them. However, I would imagine that the A9 has more overall dynamic range and output over the 703 for obvious reasons. So, if you don't listen to movies at reference level then it might not be a big difference. If you do listen full tilt loud then maybe the 707's are what you are after.

    Here is some feedback: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/165062/moved-from-rti-a9-s-and-a6-to-lsim-703-s-and-704/p1

    Here are the measurments for the A9's:
    https://www.soundandvision.com/content/polk-rti-a9-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures
    The RTi A9’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.61/–2.91 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 49 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 40 Hz

    703 Measurments:
    https://www.stereophile.com/content/polk-lsiiim703-loudspeaker-measurements
    The impedance plot suggests that the big, flared port on the cabinet's rear is tuned to 55Hz, and the woofer's output does have the expected notch centered on that frequency. The port's output reaches its maximum level at the same frequency in textbook manner, and while there are some peaks in its midrange output, these are low in level and will be ameliorated by the fact that the port both faces away from the listener and is obscured by a plate. Higher in frequency in fig.3, the woofer crosses over to the midrange close to the specified 300Hz and its treble output is free from resonant peaks. The midrange unit's output is superbly flat within its passband, though the tweeter has a +5dB plateau in its top-octave output.

    The low frequencies roll off rapidly below the port tuning frequency, which is a little high for such a large bookshelf design. I suspect that Polk has optimized the LSiM703 for high dynamic range rather than maximal low-frequency extension. There is almost no sign of the usual nearfield boost in the upper bass, which implies that the Polk's woofer alignment is somewhat on the overdamped side, something I tend to prefer—as did Bob, who commented favorably on the speaker's well-defined lows. It will also allow the speaker to be placed close to the wall behind it without its low frequencies becoming overbearing.

    The LSiM703's output is astonishingly flat from the low midrange through to the high treble, above which the same boosted top octave makes an appearance. As the speaker's plot of lateral dispersion (fig.5) shows that the tweeter becomes very directional in the same region, this will tend to offset the on-axis boost in a room of typical size, though BJR did find the Polk's treble balance rather forward. Below 7kHz, the Polk's lateral dispersion is wide and even, due to the small radiating diameter of the midrange unit.

    707 measurements:
    https://www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-polk-audio-lsim-speaker-system-page-3
    Frequency response - 34 Hz to 20 kHz ±4.6 dB

    The measurements of the LSiM 707 tower and the LSiM 706c center are fantastic. Although on-axis measurements are not shown in the accompanying chart, they’re as close to perfect between 500 Hz and 20 kHz as I can remember seeing: ±1.37 dB for the tower and ±1.49 dB for the center.

    The tower speaker’s off-axis response is similarly great. Out at ±30°, there are no off-axis response artifacts except a mild rolloff above 8 kHz, which pretty much every speaker with a 1-inch tweeter has. Even at ±60°, the only response error besides the increased treble rolloff is a dip of about 2 dB between 800 Hz and 2.5 kHz. As you can see from the measurement chart, the tower’s bass is boosted by about 5 dB between 40 and 90 Hz, although the effects of this boost will be altered tremendously by the distance from the speaker to the nearby walls, and by room acoustics.

    Impedance measurements (also performed with the Clio FW) indicate that these speakers may be a little tough to drive for inexpensive receivers. All have a fairly low measured nominal impedance of 5 ohms. The tower is the toughest load, hitting a minimum impedance of 2.8 ohms at a low frequency of 66 Hz with a fairly reactive phase angle of -32°. That’s enough to cause some inexpensive receivers to shut down if you crank up the volume, but I think a typical mid-to-high-end receiver (say, $1,500+) or any good stereo amp should handle it fine.




    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • mpitogompitogo Posts: 305
    Thanks for posting that. Wow 2.8 ohms at 66hz.
    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk LSiM 707 | McIntosh C47 | Macintosh MC452 | Denon DP-2500A | Oppo BDP-103 | MacMini
    Living Room Music parallel system-2.0 Klipsch RP600-M | PASS ACA Class A Balanced Monoblocks fed by C47 XLR Out 2
    Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSi25, Martin Logan Motion 50xt, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, fx500, T15, RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | McIntosh MA5200 HT-passthrough & independent 2.0 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
    Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, T15 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Xbox 360 MCE | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
    Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Sansui FR-1080
    Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
    Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
    Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Living Room (Optical), MA5200 (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). MacMini iTunes multi-stream to any, combo or all.
    Spares: Polk LSiC, CS300, T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, Sony CDP-491, STR DE715, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500
    Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,450
    edited December 2018
    Yes! why would one go for the BIG towers and NOT have a stout amp in the plans. The 707's are to be taken seriously... if you want to get loud, give them what they want..... current!
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
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