Polk RTi12: Integrated Amp Suggestions Please
Hello all.
I've been running my RTi12's with an old Kenwood 8004 (55w/per at 8om) for a while now and am blown away at the sound, but it's always nagged me that I am severely under-driving them. The thing is, I've never had to turn the receiver volume past "3" due to how loud and clear it sounds.
My thought was instead of spending hundreds on a Power amp to drive them with an older receiver, I'd be better off spending that money on a brand new powerful integrated that can handle them.
2-channel, 99% music use in a small room. Vinyl and CD's as source.
Would very much welcome your thoughts and especially if you think it would make THAT huge of a difference to change from my current setup.
Thanks in advance!
I've been running my RTi12's with an old Kenwood 8004 (55w/per at 8om) for a while now and am blown away at the sound, but it's always nagged me that I am severely under-driving them. The thing is, I've never had to turn the receiver volume past "3" due to how loud and clear it sounds.
My thought was instead of spending hundreds on a Power amp to drive them with an older receiver, I'd be better off spending that money on a brand new powerful integrated that can handle them.
2-channel, 99% music use in a small room. Vinyl and CD's as source.
Would very much welcome your thoughts and especially if you think it would make THAT huge of a difference to change from my current setup.
Thanks in advance!
Comments
-
I'll step in and suggest a NAD, you know, cuz I'm a fanboy. C372 would be your huckleberry I think. If you don't already have a phono preamp, this would be a good opportunity to invest in one.
-
I am going to agree with the nad suggestion or at least keep with a warmer sounding intigrated. What is the price range your looking at? Musical Fidelity also makes a great intigratedKlipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
-
What’s your budget? This will help us with recommendations.Living Room
Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED
Office
Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s
Douglas Connection ICs and Cables -
Thanks all...I was thinking $500-800 if that is remotely in the realm of possibility.
-
Same suggestion. Nad. Musical fidelity A3 or A5.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
-
What do you feel may be missing? Do you in any way feel like the RTi12s have "too much treble"?
Looks like the Kenwood 8004 has preouts to run a separate amp. If you like the sound of the Kenwood and the RTi12 speakers currently, I say consider sticking with that, and just get a high current amp to run with it. If the Kenwood is a smoother sound, maybe an amp offering a detailed signature, like a Parasound HCA-1500. B&K 200wpc variants are a nice option, too, but if the Kenwood is already fat and laid back, it may be too much smoove. Hard to say without hearing the Kenwood, or ultimately, trying both amps with it.
If you make a move to a newer integrated, there may be a chance you make the RTi12 unlistenable for music by introducing a greater level of detail up top.
I disabled signatures. -
What do you feel may be missing? Do you in any way feel like the RTi12s have "too much treble"?
See that’s just it...to me the combination sounds amazing. But it’s the curse of reading audiophile message boards! I keep reading over and over that they need a ton of power to make them “sing” so I keep thinking they could be even better. Only reason I was thinking integrated is I know the Kenwood won’t last forever with its age, and adding a decent dedicated amp to it is already an expensive endeavor.
Is this a case where I’m making much adu about nothing, and I should just sit back and enjoy my music?!
Thanks all.
-
May I step in again and suggest another idea? It's not the power, it's the current... 50k volts won't kill you, 50k amps will. Or another way: voltage is HP, current is torque. You can't twist a frame with HP.
-
May I step in again and suggest another idea? It's not the power, it's the current... 50k volts won't kill you, 50k amps will. Or another way: voltage is HP, current is torque. You can't twist a frame with HP.
Again not all watts are created equal. -
You and I know this... But sometimes that statement doesn't instill the correct image to get the point across. -
You're correct my bad
-
Yes and no.See that’s just it...to me the combination sounds amazing. But it’s the curse of reading audiophile message boards! I keep reading over and over that they need a ton of power to make them “sing” so I keep thinking they could be even better. Only reason I was thinking integrated is I know the Kenwood won’t last forever with its age, and adding a decent dedicated amp to it is already an expensive endeavor.
Is this a case where I’m making much adu about nothing, and I should just sit back and enjoy my music?!
"Ignorance is bliss"
But then, so is listening to your favorite music on relatively refined gear after you've, for weeks or months, obsessed and slaved and gone sleepless and mad and back again.
I get your position on an amp; makes sense. Though you could carry it forward to other systems, I just had a closer look at those NAD and Musical Fidelity recommendations above. Those look like really nice pieces of gear, and impressive specs. Will most likely bring significant authority/impact to your RTi12s, if you're happy with the sound, otherwise. I'd be curious to see how either of those pairs, and would be inclined to go with something like either of those used, as opposed to buying something new in the same price range.
(Delete your account now. Get out before its too late)
EJ - all this Musical Fidelity talk lately... Keeps reminding me of an almost purchase years back... Never did satisfy that MF curiosity... #&*%
I disabled signatures. -
I might be scratching that Musical Fidelity itch soon if https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184587/group-buy-2019-dreadnought-avel-lindberg-1000va-isolation-transformers#latest. Comes into play.Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
-
So will I get banned to even ask people’s opinions of class D Pro Amps in line with home audio? Like most audio discussions, I see lots of passionate opinions, almost all of which contradict each other. If my existing amp is a good sound match with the RTi12’s, don’t i just need some clean power?
-
Pretty much.
But seriously, no one's going to trash you for liking what you like. I think the main thing that causes those passion flare-ups around here is people dogmatically making statements about aspects of audio tuning they've no experience with, and being closed off to trying things for themselves.
When 2ch systems come up for discussion - systems for playing music, primarily - most of the community does favor the more hifi-class type of gear and speakers, as opposed to using equipment designed for other uses like HT or Pro Audio. As we know, each class is designed with certain performance characteristics in mind, and there are compromises in other aspects of performance. The more you approach trying to attain a "typical" 2ch/hifi kind of performance and sound quality, the more you're going to have people steering you toward a particular type of gear.
As long as your goals are clear, people can make recommendations along those lines. This is why I first asked your impression of the sonic signature of the RTi12 before getting into the gear. If you were trying to tame the characteristic brightness, that's a different recommendation path than trying to optimize performance and output of that particular speaker.
Of course, the introduction of any additional equipment could potentially change the sonic characteristics significantly. Bottom line is that we can only speculate based on known experience about gear class performance characteristics and how these components might interact, and you'll never really know whether it works for you until you try it yourself.
In this case, if you go RTi speakers with Class D Pro Audio, you may be introducing two parts brighter characteristics to a speaker known to be bright, and it may overrun the smoothing hifi character of your Kenwood, resulting a sound you no longer like, with your speakers becoming fatiguing within 20 minutes play time, if that.I disabled signatures. -
I might be scratching that Musical Fidelity itch soon if https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/184587/group-buy-2019-dreadnought-avel-lindberg-1000va-isolation-transformers#latest. Comes into play.
Ye of little faith...
*Shakes head* -
In this case, if you go RTi speakers with Class D Pro Audio, you may be introducing two parts brighter characteristics to a speaker known to be bright, and it may overrun the smoothing hifi character of your Kenwood, resulting a sound you no longer like, with your speakers becoming fatiguing within 20 minutes play time, if that.
Ed Zackory
-
In this case, if you go RTi speakers with Class D Pro Audio, you may be introducing two parts brighter characteristics to a speaker known to be bright, and it may overrun the smoothing hifi character of your Kenwood, resulting a sound you no longer like, with your speakers becoming fatiguing within 20 minutes play time, if that.
Ed Zackory
But doesn’t an amp (HiFi or Pro) simply amplify the sound of the existing Pre-Amp to the speakers? In my case the Kenwood. In theory, shouldn’t the sound not be colored by the power amp but simply boosted? Am I just talking crazy now?
-
In this case, if you go RTi speakers with Class D Pro Audio, you may be introducing two parts brighter characteristics to a speaker known to be bright, and it may overrun the smoothing hifi character of your Kenwood, resulting a sound you no longer like, with your speakers becoming fatiguing within 20 minutes play time, if that.
Ed Zackory
But doesn’t an amp (HiFi or Pro) simply amplify the sound of the existing Pre-Amp to the speakers? In my case the Kenwood. In theory, shouldn’t the sound not be colored by the power amp but simply boosted? Am I just talking crazy now?
Everything colors the sound to some degree, some things more so than others. Amps definitely have their own sound characteristics as well, along with the cables used with them.
It's about matching up sound signatures that compliment each other according to your individual tastes/preferences. Most would agree, pro amps are built for loudness, not necessarily sound quality, which is why most would frown on using them in a home environment.
Doesn't mean you can't though. RTI speakers are a bit on the bright side to begin with. Pro amps will only exaggerate that characteristic. If that's the sound you like or want to bring out more, then rock a pro amp. Otherwise, look for something on the warmer side of neutral to balance it out.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
In this case, if you go RTi speakers with Class D Pro Audio, you may be introducing two parts brighter characteristics to a speaker known to be bright, and it may overrun the smoothing hifi character of your Kenwood, resulting a sound you no longer like, with your speakers becoming fatiguing within 20 minutes play time, if that.
Ed Zackory
But doesn’t an amp (HiFi or Pro) simply amplify the sound of the existing Pre-Amp to the speakers? In my case the Kenwood. In theory, shouldn’t the sound not be colored by the power amp but simply boosted? Am I just talking crazy now?
Hey!!! Are you crazy?!? Keep it down, man! They're gonna see!
I disabled signatures. -
In this case, if you go RTi speakers with Class D Pro Audio, you may be introducing two parts brighter characteristics to a speaker known to be bright, and it may overrun the smoothing hifi character of your Kenwood, resulting a sound you no longer like, with your speakers becoming fatiguing within 20 minutes play time, if that.
Ed Zackory
But doesn’t an amp (HiFi or Pro) simply amplify the sound of the existing Pre-Amp to the speakers? In my case the Kenwood. In theory, shouldn’t the sound not be colored by the power amp but simply boosted? Am I just talking crazy now?
Hey!!! Are you crazy?!? Keep it down, man! They're gonna see!
Don't get us wet either, we'll multiply.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
So will I get banned to even ask people’s opinions of class D Pro Amps in line with home audio? Like most audio discussions, I see lots of passionate opinions, almost all of which contradict each other. If my existing amp is a good sound match with the RTi12’s, don’t i just need some clean power?
I try to stay out of these kinds of threads, because I don’t know a ton about amps, so I can’t really recommend them.
But I will step in here. I bought a pro amplifier (Crown XLi800) to use with my Polk LSi25s. Thought it was awesome. And I thought everyone here was crazy for thinking that an “audiophile” amp would be better. I then heard an audiophile amp, and realized what I was missing. Everything drastically improved, and I was left sitting in that chair with my jaw on the floor.
All that to say, the “audiophile” amps are really and truely better. -
I can't believe I'm saying this, but maybe consider one of the higher powered silver faced Marantz receivers. Something like the 2285 or above. I could pair my RTi12 to the Marantz 2216 behind me and test it out to see that synergy if that is something that interests you. The vintage Marantz sound should complement the RTi sound very well.
In that price range, you might be able to find a higher powered unit that has been gone through by a reputable repair tech.
I was wondering if you ever tried the Marantz with the rti12s? I just started a thread asking if the 2226b would sufficiently power the same speakers.
