Do ANY salesmen know what the heck they're talking about?

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AustinKP
AustinKP Posts: 861
edited May 2004 in Car Audio & Electronics
Man, I just spent like 7 hours going to four different places to listen to subs...at least 6 1/2 of them were wasted hours.
  • Ok, first of all, whatever mean nicknames you guys have given to Circuit City, yeah, they totally deserve them. Their guys know precisely Jack Squat. That's all I have to say about that. I was trying to listen to the Polk MM12, but their biggest amp was an audiobahn 400W, so it would distort above 1/3 volume.
  • Second, Ultimate Electronics, a "middle to high-end retailer" (direct quote from one of their salesmen" The most knowledgable of the 3 salesmen(least stupid, I should say) I talked to said he had xtant all the way around in his car, but they don't carry that any more. In their display room, he said their batteries were low, so none of their nice subs would even get halfway loud. He was trying to show off this PPI 12" 1000 rms sub, but the bottom-of-the-line Infinity 12 was twice as loud in another room. He was trying to talk me into a PPI DCX-*** amp saying how awesome they were. I told him that I heard they were going down the drain, and he was like, "Oh really? I hadn't heard that...to each his own I guess" Anyway, nothing there was very impressive to me. They had one of last years RF HX2 subs, but again, since their batteries were low, he couldn't show it to me. What the heck!? Don't they anticipate these things? That's all they do all day is sell car audio, and they don't think to check the batteries???
  • Third, some local car audio place. They sell mainly JL and PG. PG's new Xenon line of subs looks pretty cool. However, he says he can't install any amp I didn't buy from him since he doesn't know if it has an authorized warranty or not. Then I asked how much an install would cost. "$50 plus wiring, etc." Ok, so what if I buy my own wires, I ask? Apparantly, I have to buy my wires from him too so he "knows they are good quality, cause if anything goes wrong, it'd be a pain to check all my wires" Screw that!
  • Finally, R.C. Willey, another retail chain located in the western US. Once again, they have the MM12, but they don't have any amp hooked up bigger than 300W rms. He tries to convince me that some Pioneer Premier 12" DVC sub is the cleanest, best thing he's heard. Well, ok, yeah he guesses the MM12 is better, but it's too expensive. (Didn't mention that I can get it for $99 [I hope!!!]) However, since it's so underpowered, their MM12 also sounds like crap above 1/5th volume.
So, in closing, I'm really going to have to trust you guys on what sub to get. Looks like I'm not going to get any quality listens anywhere locally. Man, this sucks!

p.s. Does the C300.2 come with that "850 Watts Peak Power" sticker from Polk? Cause that same sticker in
this thread that you guys told him to take off was on the C300.2 at CC. Are they the ones putting that sticker on there? Yeah, this turned out longer than I anticipated. Sorry.
-Austin
http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

Alpine 9815
Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • Steve@3dai
    Steve@3dai Posts: 983
    edited April 2004
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    I have a Zapco AG200 hooked up to my MM124 and it hits hard and loud.

    It's only about 190-200w.
    LSi 9/C/FX
    Arcam AVR-200
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  • fireshoes
    fireshoes Posts: 3,167
    edited April 2004
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    Originally posted by AustinKP

    [*]Second, Ultimate Electronics, a "middle to high-end retailer" (direct quote from one of their salesmen" The most knowledgable of the 3 salesmen(least stupid, I should say) I talked to said he had xtant all the way around in his car, but they don't carry that any more. In their display room, he said their batteries were low, so none of their nice subs would even get halfway loud. He was trying to show off this PPI 12" 1000 rms sub, but the bottom-of-the-line Infinity 12 was twice as loud in another room. He was trying to talk me into a PPI DCX-*** amp saying how awesome they were. I told him that I heard they were going down the drain, and he was like, "Oh really? I hadn't heard that...to each his own I guess" Anyway, nothing there was very impressive to me. They had one of last years RF HX2 subs, but again, since their batteries were low, he couldn't show it to me. What the heck!? Don't they anticipate these things? That's all they do all day is sell car audio, and they don't think to check the batteries???

    Batteries were low? What batteries? :confused:
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2004
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    im sure that zapco is underrated
    i want zapco amps...im jealous
    im sorry to hear about your bad experiences, it seems like a lot of the audio shops are going to crap now...
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2004
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    Originally posted by fireshoes
    Batteries were low? What batteries? :confused:
    im not sure how exactly they wire them but they need some type of batteries to hook up the amps too...
    does anyone know where the power wire from the amp goes to on the other side of the wall?:confused:
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited April 2004
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    I feel your pain. I went Shop Hopping a while back and visited 4 shops. All but one had absolutley nothing set up to listen to, not one damn thing!!

    Car Tunes guy was very helpful and sat and talked with me for a while about car audio and gave me a lot of good hints. Even though they had nothing to hear, because he was so cool Id still consider buying from them.

    Ultimate Sounds also had nothing set up to listen to except a discontinued model (Xtant 4004) on some sound board running thru a set of Memphis comps. It did sound pretty good but I wouldve liked to check out the actual new Xtant models. He also tried to sell me the Eclipse amps over the Xtant. This was odd because the Xtant 4x is $150 more then the Eclipse 4x so I dont know quite what he was up to.

    Radio Clinic was worthless. They had like 3 amps mounted on a board with none of them hooked up. Pointless other than to get a price quote on an Orion 4004.

    Audio Visions on the other hand was a joy. The shop was kind of messy but they had a board set up with a Diamond Audio amp and all three levels of the Diamond component line up so you could hear the difference between the different classes. Pretty cool but the icing was their demo truck. A late model Tahoe outfitted with 2 sets of Diamon M6 components, 2 Diamond 12's running off an Eclipse 85x4 and 2 Eclipse 1000x1 amps. This thing was awesome. The imaging was ****, it was sitting in my lap. This was because he had the rear speakers as loud as the front ones. Anyways the subs were awesome. Every kick of Dream Theaters drummer would part my hair!! He had the doors very well dynamatted and so no matter how loud he turned it up there was no distortion at all! It was a real treat!

    1 out of 4 aint bad. :rolleyes:
    It kind of makes ya appreciate a well laid out Tweeter!!
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited April 2004
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    He said the amps were hooked up to Optima batteries. I'm assuming they charge them overnight or something... ::shrug::
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2004
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    Originally posted by MacLeod
    He also tried to sell me the Eclipse amps over the Xtant. This was odd because the Xtant 4x is $150 more then the Eclipse 4x so I dont know quite what he was up to.
    just because the price is higher doesnt mean the mark up is higher:)
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • pOP
    pOP Posts: 23
    edited April 2004
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    When my mm124's arrrive in the near future, ill give u a rating at what they sound like with 500 watts each. as i am told it should THUMP THUMP THUMP!!!
    -=KirK=-
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited April 2004
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    you have a serious thing with the phrase 'thump thump thump'.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • pOP
    pOP Posts: 23
    edited April 2004
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    lol i only think ive posted that phrase like twice.
    -=KirK=-
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited April 2004
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    3 times, out of 7 posts... well, 8 now - i'm thinking you're having an affair with thump... :)

    who's thump?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • pOP
    pOP Posts: 23
    edited April 2004
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    dont you have someone else to pick on..hehe
    -=KirK=-
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited April 2004
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    Yeah, I'm seeing at least 3 times the phrase "Thump thump thump" was used. Is that even a phrase? Not to pick on you or anything...neo's doing just fine by himself. But in your defense, when I hear that, it almost makes me giddy thinking about having an MM12 kick me in the back repeatedly in my own car :)
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited April 2004
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    Originally posted by pOP
    dont you have someone else to pick on..hehe
    no

    maybe i'll understand once i get subs :(
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited April 2004
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    I'm surprised that they would have them connected to batteries. Batteries are not meant to be drained and recharged like that.... it's no wonder they were dead. They need a big-**** transformer.
    Ludicrous gibs!
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited April 2004
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    if they're yellowtops, they're built for deepcycle use, so it could concievably be done.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited April 2004
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    Originally posted by exalted512
    just because the price is higher doesnt mean the mark up is higher:)
    -Cody

    Damn good point. I hadnt thought of that.

    When he was telling me that the Eclipse amps were a better SQ amp than the Xtant I thought maybe he knew something I didnt, which is usually the case. LOL

    That would stand to reason though cause the local shops have the Xtant 4.4 at $550 which is the same price Sound Domain has it at. And Sound Domain aint exactly known for their HIGH prices.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited April 2004
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    Oh, I just thought of another thing. The guy at the JL shop told me that I NEED to have at least a 1F capacitor. Even if I have an Optima Yellow Top. Truth or falsehood? I've heard both, but I'd like your opinions. Also, anyone know how good a 2000 Ford Mustang V6 alternator is? I have no clue what the specs on it are.
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited April 2004
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    If youre running a couple thousand watts you will probably need one.

    If youre running a 300-750 I doubt youd even need to upgrade your battery, although going to Autozone and getting a $80 Duralast or a $120 Optima is a good idea.

    Dont get me wrong, a cap isnt a bad thing, if you want one then by all mean get ya one, they cant hurt. I mean hell if you got the cash and desire upgrade youre entire charging system it wont hurt at all.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited April 2004
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    Well, I'm planning on ending up w/ (RMS) ~240 total to the fronts, 55 to the rear, and depending on the sub 500 - 1000 . Total: 800 - 1300 Watts RMS. Electrical system upgrade? or will an $80 battery take care of it?
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2004
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    its really hard to tell you if you need a new battery or a cap
    a battery upgrade never hurt anyone
    its a good upgrade for your car in general
    then after you get your stuff installed, if you have a very small amount of light dimming, a cap will help
    if you have a voltage drop and the voltage STAYS down, thats cause for concern
    the only way to fix that is to get a BIGGER battery, or a 2nd battery, or a high output alternator
    id say get the biggest battery you can fit under the hood, install the system, and go from there
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited April 2004
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    might as well do the big 3 while you're at it... like a cap, it can't hurt

    i personally hate dimming headlights, so i'm all for caps
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2004
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    and plus, the big 3 costs you about 3* bucks...
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited April 2004
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    Originally posted by exalted512
    and plus, the big 3 costs you about bucks...
    -Cody
    HUH? What are the big 3 again?
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited April 2004
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    cheap wiring upgrade - battery negative to chassis, engine to chassis, and alternator to battery positive. allows greater current flow w/o a HO alternator, good cost-effective upgrade.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • AustinKP
    AustinKP Posts: 861
    edited April 2004
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    So I just need to buy better wire and replace the ones already there?
    Cody - that'll cost me about how many bucks?
    http://www.silverdragon.com/punkie/cybertusk/net.idiot.html - Read it, know it

    Alpine 9815
    Polk MM6's in custom fiberglass door pods
    Ascendant Audio Atlas 12
    HiFonics Zeus ZX6400 - 85x2 + 350x1
    2 Gallons SecondSkin Spectrum V.2
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited April 2004
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    pretty much... except you can leave all the stock stuff in, it's just more work to take it out. and you can use power cable; use whatever size you use from your battery (i.e. if you run 4 gauge from the battery for amps, use 4 gauge for the big 3). if you want, i can post a tutorial/explanation thingy. it'll cost however much 4 gauge cable costs, like 10 feet total, plus a few ring terminals.
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • TrappedUnder Ice
    TrappedUnder Ice Posts: 975
    edited April 2004
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    I dont care what your system is...
    YOU NEVER ...I say NEVER NEED A CAP! You might want one...but you never NEED ONE>>NO SYSTEM EVER NEEDS ONE. come on folks.. :) I walked out of a shop the other day cause a dude told me I needed one. ... I was laughing on the way out.

    :rolleyes:
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited April 2004
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    three bucks...sorry
    I think everytime Thomas comes on this site he searches for 'caps' so he can go to that thread and tell them not to get em...lol
    you can pick up a cap for around $60 on ikesound.com
    a cap is a cap, no matter if its from RF or Lightening Audio
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • nadams
    nadams Posts: 5,877
    edited April 2004
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    Originally posted by TrappedUnder Ice
    I dont care what your system is...
    YOU NEVER ...I say NEVER NEED A CAP! You might want one...but you never NEED ONE>>NO SYSTEM EVER NEEDS ONE. come on folks.. :) I walked out of a shop the other day cause a dude told me I needed one. ... I was laughing on the way out.

    :rolleyes:

    Why
    Ludicrous gibs!
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