AVR upgrade advice!

24

Comments

  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    Also, I was told that as far as DENON receivers go, that there is supposedly NO difference sonically between the X1500 up to the X8500. Youre only paying the extra $$ for features. Is there any truth to this? Whereas recievers like the SONY ES and INTEGRA lines you pay the extra $$ for performance and better amps. Please clear this up for me.
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    If you need Bluetooth, there are stand alone receivers with optical out available... That's how I roll anyway.
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,795
    polkerfan wrote: »
    Also, I was told that as far as DENON receivers go, that there is supposedly NO difference sonically between the X1500 up to the X8500. Youre only paying the extra $$ for features. Is there any truth to this? Whereas recievers like the SONY ES and INTEGRA lines you pay the extra $$ for performance and better amps. Please clear this up for me.

    Just plain wrong.
    7.1 - polk RTi10 x 3 (LCR) : FXi3 x 2 : RTi4 x 4 : Sunfire SDS-12 : Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 : Adcom GFA-7500 : Squeezebox Touch : DIRECTV : Roku SE : Panasonic PT-AX200U PJ @ 120"
    5.1 - Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 x 4 : ProCenter 1000 : Klipsch Sub-10 : Pioneer Elite SC-91: DIRECTV : LG OLED55B6P : Roku Premiere+
    Garage Duty - polk Monitor 10s : Pioneer A-717 Integrated Amp : Squeezebox Classic
  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    Anyone else disagree with that salesman? I get that each increase in model will have a little more power, but are the amps or dacs better as you go up? Is the DENON x4500 BETTER than the X3500 sonically?
  • The fact is we’ve pointed you in the right direction based on our experiences. We can’t tell you what will be best for you, in your room, your speakers, and your preferences.

    Lots of good options there, some may last longer than others, which also depends proper care, ventilation, and level of abuse.

    You have some good options there, do some research, read the specs, decide what’s important to you and choose what suits you.

    As far as Bluetooth/WiFi they all have it or can be added.

    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    I agree, the salesman is wrong. Whenever the output increases, there should be a corresponding change in internals to cope with the higher output. Otherwise the bottom rung model would put out the same as the TOTL...
  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    I guess what I’m trying to say is that, from what I was told, from say the X1500 and up, there is NO difference in the quality of sound. Sure the watts per channel goes up, but it doesn’t equate to cleaner, more detailed sound. Where as the SONY ES series, or Arcam there is a definite difference in amp quality, equating to better sound. Maybe I should shop elsewhere.
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,795
    polkerfan wrote: »
    I guess what I’m trying to say is that, from what I was told, from say the X1500 and up, there is NO difference in the quality of sound. Sure the watts per channel goes up, but it doesn’t equate to cleaner, more detailed sound. Where as the SONY ES series, or Arcam there is a definite difference in amp quality, equating to better sound. Maybe I should shop elsewhere.
    You need to consider the source of the information.
    7.1 - polk RTi10 x 3 (LCR) : FXi3 x 2 : RTi4 x 4 : Sunfire SDS-12 : Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 : Adcom GFA-7500 : Squeezebox Touch : DIRECTV : Roku SE : Panasonic PT-AX200U PJ @ 120"
    5.1 - Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 x 4 : ProCenter 1000 : Klipsch Sub-10 : Pioneer Elite SC-91: DIRECTV : LG OLED55B6P : Roku Premiere+
    Garage Duty - polk Monitor 10s : Pioneer A-717 Integrated Amp : Squeezebox Classic
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,966
    edited November 17
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    polkerfan wrote: »
    I guess what I’m trying to say is that, from what I was told, from say the X1500 and up, there is NO difference in the quality of sound. Sure the watts per channel goes up, but it doesn’t equate to cleaner, more detailed sound. Where as the SONY ES series, or Arcam there is a definite difference in amp quality, equating to better sound. Maybe I should shop elsewhere.
    You need to consider the source of the information.

    I like to toy with the BB guys... :) makes for a fun day watching their head spin :)

    More fun was watching Russman when he worked at Magnolia toy with arrogant customers :D :D :D
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • DSkipDSkip Posts: 15,131
    edited November 17
    Check the weight of them. Increased weight usually involves a bigger and better transformer which equates to better sound. Realistically all receivers are compromised and they're all going to be limited. Get a quality one from the current top dogs and you should be set.

    Get one with preouts if you suspect you will do upgrades in the future. A good power amp will do more for you than the current latest codec in many cases.
    audiothesis.com/

    Speakers: Harbeth: 30.2, SHL5+; Usher: Be-10, T-515; Rosso Fiorentino: Elba, Pienza, Certaldo, Fiesole, Volterra; Polk: T50, Signature S15, RTA 15tl, RTi12; Sonner Audio Allegro Unum, Legato Unum, Legato Semis, Legato Duo; Emerald Physics CS-2.8; Klipsch KLF-20
    Preamps: Shuguang S200MK, Dayens Ampino, Parasound P5
    Amps: Shuguang S845MK, Dayens Ampino Monoblocks, Parasound A23
    Integrateds: Triode Corporation TRV-88SER, MastersounD: BoX, Dueventi, Compact 845, Evolution 845; North Star Design Blue Diamond
    Sources: AURALiC Aries, Denon HEOS Link, North Star Design: Magnifico, Supremo, Incanto, Intenso, Venti
    Cabling: Wireworld
    TV: Sony XBR-75X940C
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,585
    polkerfan wrote: »
    Being a DENON guy for many, many years, it's hard to suddenly change directions. YAMAHA is definately an avr on my radar. I'd like to sacrifice alot of unnecessary features for bullet-proof amps and durability. Only feature I can't live without at this point is bluetooth and/or wifi. That's where I get all of my music. That being said, I believe Ive narrowed my choices down to the following:

    -MARANTZ SR 5013
    -DENON AVR-X3500H
    -SONY STR-ZA3100ES (no bluetooth/wifi)
    -YAMAHA RX-A2080bl

    So, not using price as any kind of factor, let me know what you all think of those choices. What is the BEST option here based off of actual performance. Everyone has opinions on what they believe is good- just provide me with facts so I can make the best decision. Thanks!!

    1. RX-A2080, this is a beast of an AVR
    2. AVR-X3500H Good AVR with Audyssey XT32
    3. Marantz SR5013 Good AVR but only Audyssey XT + Porthole display. Reason the 3500 is above it
    4. 3100ES, When Sony want to put their mind into making great audio gear they can out perform everyone else. Problem Sony has not done that in 20 years at the everyday consumer level.

    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,585
    polkerfan wrote: »
    Anyone else disagree with that salesman? I get that each increase in model will have a little more power, but are the amps or dacs better as you go up? Is the DENON x4500 BETTER than the X3500 sonically?

    Yes, Like Sir Skip said, more weight = more power supply with better boards.

    I too when board will go to BB and play with the sales guys. I asked about Polk Signatures guy tried telling me they were junk. He then tried to sell me these things with horns that sounded gross. I asked about Marantz AVR and he was trying to push me to Onkyo. I laughed he had Klipsch and Onkyo in stock. They just try to make the sale then and there.

    It's your money and time. BB does have a nice return policy. Get the one your leaning to take it home hook it up try it for a day and if you don't like it take it back.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,585
    9nqrgg6u13mp.png
    3500H
    v7evf0sbnbp9.png
    4500H

    Yeah I think there will be a sonic difference
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    That is awesome! LOVED your comparison list. I’ll keep you posted.
  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    Ok, avr cage match- YAMAHA RX-A2080 vs. DENON AVR-X4500H!!!
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,795
    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    polkerfan wrote: »
    I guess what I’m trying to say is that, from what I was told, from say the X1500 and up, there is NO difference in the quality of sound. Sure the watts per channel goes up, but it doesn’t equate to cleaner, more detailed sound. Where as the SONY ES series, or Arcam there is a definite difference in amp quality, equating to better sound. Maybe I should shop elsewhere.
    You need to consider the source of the information.

    I like to toy with the BB guys... :) makes for a fun day watching their head spin :)

    More fun was watching Russman when he worked at Magnolia toy with arrogant customers :D :D :D

    I like when you ask them a question and they immediately look at the info tag on the shelf (as if I couldn't read it myself)... :|
    7.1 - polk RTi10 x 3 (LCR) : FXi3 x 2 : RTi4 x 4 : Sunfire SDS-12 : Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 : Adcom GFA-7500 : Squeezebox Touch : DIRECTV : Roku SE : Panasonic PT-AX200U PJ @ 120"
    5.1 - Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 x 4 : ProCenter 1000 : Klipsch Sub-10 : Pioneer Elite SC-91: DIRECTV : LG OLED55B6P : Roku Premiere+
    Garage Duty - polk Monitor 10s : Pioneer A-717 Integrated Amp : Squeezebox Classic
  • polkerfan wrote: »
    Ok, avr cage match- YAMAHA RX-A2080 vs. DENON AVR-X4500H!!!

    Dead even.

    I’d give the 2080 a +1 for build quality and then Denon a +1 for maybe a little better auto calibration.

    So if you know you like Denon then go that route.

    If you want to try something a little different then go with the 2080, otherwise both are fine AVRs.

    Maybe choose on price at this point.

    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,585
    Coin toss.
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 4,756
    Though they are not quite the same price point/level, when I moved from my Yamaha rx-a1010 to my denon avr-x4200w it was definitely a step up. The denon is so dynamic and immersive. Watched the greatest showman last night. Not the greatest movie but the soundtrack just rocked. Tonality, placement of instruments and voices in space, just awesome...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio Nova Integrated; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10 + MartinLogan Dynamo (original) sub; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - SVS PB10-ISD; LG UP870 4K BDP

    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; Audiosource Amp Two, PSB Imagine B, Boston VR-10 center, NHT Super One CI surrounds, ACI Titan subwoofer, Squeezebox Touch
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,966
    FYI

    CES is 1st week in January

    Pending on the company...most electronics make the new year products shift at that time. Last years models become wholesale hence Super Bowl sales

    Pioneer was around June/July
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    Well, after alot of input from all of you (very appreciated!), and alot of research, I've decided to go with a YAMAHA RX unit. It's basically between these two units now- the RX-A1080 (which is $999 at BB) and the RX-A2080 ($1599 at BB). Is the 2080 worth the extra $600? Or are these two units virtually identical besides the extra two channel capability?
  • rpf65rpf65 Posts: 1,827
    Usually the difference between the 10xx and 20xx series Yamaha’s is extra channels, and a meaningless amount of power rating. You can probably compare them on Crutchfield’s web site. Don’t think the DAC until the flagship 30xx series.
  • FestYboyFestYboy Posts: 2,985
    Stepping up to the 2080 allows Atmos output and all the nice things that go with it. It will allow future upgrades where the 1080 cannot.

    Also, it's cheaper here: https://www.hdavpro.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=RXA2080BL
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,795
    If a manufacturer's warranty is important to you, be sure to check their website to determine if a particular dealer is authorized. Manufacturers may not honor a warranty if purchased from an unauthorized dealer. Just something to think about. https://www.yamaha.com/paragon/dealerlocator/
    7.1 - polk RTi10 x 3 (LCR) : FXi3 x 2 : RTi4 x 4 : Sunfire SDS-12 : Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 : Adcom GFA-7500 : Squeezebox Touch : DIRECTV : Roku SE : Panasonic PT-AX200U PJ @ 120"
    5.1 - Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 x 4 : ProCenter 1000 : Klipsch Sub-10 : Pioneer Elite SC-91: DIRECTV : LG OLED55B6P : Roku Premiere+
    Garage Duty - polk Monitor 10s : Pioneer A-717 Integrated Amp : Squeezebox Classic
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,168
    Couple things....

    How many actual Bluray movies do you watch ? Actual movies from a disc. Because if most your movie watching is off of cable/Netflix, all those bells and whistles isn't going to matter much.

    Wifi and BT can be added to any AVR, and personally, I would pick another stand alone unit to handle those duties better, more stable, than an AVR would.

    If music is important to you, you'll never make headway using a HT receiver for it.

    Make sure the receiver you get has pre-outs for an upgrade path with power.

    Also...no such thing as "future proof" in the world of HT receivers. We've learned that lesson a time or 2 already.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mrlorenmrloren Posts: 1,585
    Go for the 1080 and get an SVS 12NSD sub
    When I was a kid my parents told me to turn it down. Now I'm an adult and my kids tell me to turn it down.

    Family Room:
    Samsung UN60H,
    Denon AVR-X4400H, Emotiva XPA3 GEN3
    Oppo BDP-93,Sony UBP-X800BM, Sony DVP-NS3100ES, WD Live HUB.
    Main: Polk Signature S60
    Center: Polk CSi-A6
    Front High/Rear High In-Ceiling Polk 80F/X RT
    Surrounds: Polk T15
    Sub: HSU VTF3-MK5

    Bed Room;
    Sony KDF-E42A10,
    Marantz SR5010, BDP-S270
    Main: Polk Signature S20
    Center: Polk Signature S35
    Rear: Polk R15
    Sub: HSU STF-2

    Working Warehouse;
    Sony 2100ES
    Polk RTi4 about 15' up the wall
    Old sony 12" Sub
    Mini tower PC with 400GB of music
  • I’d get the 2080 if you can. It has a better calibration program, dual Sabre DACs, and a beefier amp. I bet you can find a deal and the difference in price won’t be that great.

    But the 1080 is pretty sweet too, either way, great choice.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    Well, I just about pulled the trigger on the 2080-but it was $600 more than the 1080, 9.2 channel(which more or less was too much for my space) and it was two weeks out. SO, I did get the 1080! My first Yamaha component ever. HOPEFULLY this avr exceeds my expectations.
  • Congrats
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • polkerfanpolkerfan Posts: 110
    Thanks, Jeremy, and everyone else who offered their knowledge. The Yamaha RX-A1080 will be driving my Polk TSx550t’s up front, Polk TSx250c center, and Polk TSx 110b’s for rear surround AND front heighth! I guess the only missing piece is a MODEST sub (preferably on the smaller side), which I’ve already gotten a few suggestions on. Thanks again, everyone.
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