Trouble with my 2.3TL's.

headrott

Ok,

First I want to stipulate that all of the drivers (MW6510's) have been JB Welded since I've owned the speakers, and I have checked to make sure magnet shift isn't the problem because both the left and right speaker drivers move just as freely.

That said, I was listening to Peter Gabriel's "US" (the mini-LP) version last night and noticed that there is a scraping sound coming from the right 2.3TL on the really deep bass parts. I listened to an album 2 nights before and did not hear anything like this at all.

My first thought was that one of the magnets had shifted on a MW6510, but I am sure that's not the case as they all move freely in both the left and right speakers.

I need help diagnosing what could cause a scraping sound on the really deep bass portions of the music, if it's not magnet shift. Any ideas of what else could cause this sound? It only happens on the right 2.3TL.

Please ask questions if you need more information to help diagnose the problem. I am starting at the speaker. What sounds like magnet shift, but isn't?

Thanks all for the help. I appreciate it.

Edit: Paging Mr. @F1nut.

pitdogg2

Check the drivers for spider issues would be on my list Greg as well as the passive. I'm not sure the passive would cause a scrapping sound but check them all.

headrott

I though, they are basically impossible to get.

nooshinjohn

If you turn it down just a touch, does the noise still occur? I have found that if pushed too hard, my 1.2TL’s will also make that noise, but it only happened at extreme volume on movie soundtracks. I added a REL subwoofer to take the stress off the Polk’s, and have no more issues.

pitdogg2

I know i have a standing search for any that pop up. You and i will be throwing the bank account at it if they do.

headrott

nooshinjohn wrote: »

If you turn it down just a touch, does the noise still occur? I have found that if pushed too hard, my 1.2TL’s will also make that noise, but it only happened at extreme volume on movie soundtracks. I added a REL subwoofer to take the stress off the Polk’s, and have no more issues.

It does seem to do it less if I turn it down, John. But, I have listened to the Gabriel album countless times without issue on either speaker (at the same volume).

I have never, ever heard the 2.3TL's make that sound until last night.

Viking64

Are your crossovers and inductors original or have they been upgraded? Is it possible that an aftermarket inductor has become a little loose? Or another component? Maybe part of the wiring harness is just loose enough to rub on something else, causing a sound similar to magnet shift or other driver issues.

gmcman

I had an inductor lead come loose once, wasnt the solder but the lead itself broke....obviously it was fatigued already but showed up months later.

How does the push-test look? Double check the top and bottom cap mounting screws inside, moisture changes could produce a slight leak if not tight.

Don't discount magnet shift yet, push on the cone near the top, then on the bottom, near the same distance from the edge, could be barely shifted.

Swap dimensional drivers and see if it follows to the left.

Also, do the battery test, see if all drivers are connected....and in phase.

motorhead43026

Push on the passive, if no scraping is heard on the MW's then they should be fine. I am in the camp of a broken spider as mentioned by Pit.

gmcman

motorhead43026 wrote: »

Push on the passive, if no scraping is heard on the MW's then they should be fine. I am in the camp of a broken spider as mentioned by Pit.

Not saying that wouldn't be the cause, but would the scraping be more evident with the cones moving inward? I dont know, just asking.

Emlyn

With the drivers moving freely by hand without making the same scratching sound, my guess is it's either something like an internal cable has fallen down to interfere with the passive radiator or a part on it has come loose. I had a problem with a pair of 1Cs after I moved them some years ago. That was simply a wire loose inside.

gmcman

My CS350 made a scratching sound, one of the drivers I guess sagged or maybe a magnet shift, but rotating it cured the scratching...was just enough to make the noise some of the time but not that evident when pushing on it.

The battery test should show if they are connected...I would check that first before removing a driver only for a confirmation...in case one lead pulls loose when removing.

headrott

Viking64 wrote: »

Are your crossovers and inductors original or have they been upgraded? Is it possible that an aftermarket inductor has become a little loose? Or another component? Maybe part of the wiring harness is just loose enough to rub on something else, causing a sound similar to magnet shift or other driver issues.

Yep, all upgraded to Clarity Cap ESA's, Duelund Cast resistors, and Jantzen inductors. I will have to open up the right 2.3TL and have a look. I hope it's not a spider issue on the passive.

headrott

gmcman wrote: »

I had an inductor lead come loose once, wasnt the solder but the lead itself broke....obviously it was fatigued already but showed up months later.

How does the push-test look? Double check the top and bottom cap mounting screws inside, moisture changes could produce a slight leak if not tight.

Don't discount magnet shift yet, push on the cone near the top, then on the bottom, near the same distance from the edge, could be barely shifted.

Swap dimensional drivers and see if it follows to the left.

Also, do the battery test, see if all drivers are connected....and in phase.

A couple years ago I replaced the original caps with new wood ones. It is possible that the screws holding them could have loosened over the last couple years. Thanks for the idea.

I will try the dimensional driver swap after trying other ideas.

I have actually never done "The battery test" on a full speaker (only on a single driver). Am I hooking up the positive and negative leads of the (9V) battery to the binding post? That would make sense to me, but want to make sure. Thanks again.

gmcman

I use a 1.5V battery, works perfect. If you have a DMM the leads with alligator clips make it easier.

Dennis Gardner

I had my SDAs make this type of sound just prior to one of the drivers jumping out of the gap and freezing in place totally extended forward. It was when driving them at very high volumes with the bass heavy Brian Bromberg "Bass Face". I actually think it was the voice coil bottoming out on the back of the magnet plate.

headrott

Thanks for all the replies. I pushed both passives in and all drivers react the same by being pushed out on both speakers with absolutely no scraping sound at all.

I have yet to open the right 2.3TL, but I did play a little more music and looking at both the left and right 2.3TL's, I will say without a doubt that the right 2.3TL (SDA drivers, especially) drivers seem to move in and out much more that the left 2,3TL. Like there is too much voltage going to the drivers. That would lead me to think that something is weird with the inductor(s). Am I mistaken in this?

And, if there is too much voltage to the drivers (particularly the SDA drivers) then they could be bottoming out and producing the scratchy sound.

I am just thinking off the top of my head (using all your advice). Please let me know what you all think. Thanks again.

pitdogg2

Yes if they are moving out much more that would be logical that they could be nearing or exceeding their Xmax. As for the voltage I don't know. If it were a voltage issue I'd think that would be amplifier problem.

Logicly speaking

nooshinjohn

Swap the left and right and see if the trouble follows the signal. If it does, it is the amp...

headrott

I pulled both crossover boards, and they look fine. Now if it's the amp, I'm going to be pissed.

I will swap out the MIT cables and see what the result is.

F1nut

Could very well be an air leak from loose end cap nuts.

headrott

I did discover a loose bolt on one of the bottom end caps Jesse. I will tighten it down and see if that fixes the problem. Thanks for your input.

I didn't realize how much of a difference once end cap bolt would make. WOW!

Now I gotta tighten that bolt, put the crossover boards back in, put the passives back in (glad it wasn't one of those!) and hook up everything and see what happens.

F1nut

Install lock washers on all of them and the nuts will not come loose again.

westmassguy

Can you tell if it's just one driver, or all during the heavy excursion period? The suspension on one or more could be worn or detached, which will allow over-extension beyond their design parameters.
Also, if you replaced the sub-bass drive inductors with lower resistance units, the dimensional woofers will move quite a bit more than the stock inductors allowed.

gmcman

Did you perform the battery test yet? Only asking since you didn't mention it. This is just to cover that base. If one of the drivers isn't connected that would allow for extra movement for the others.

nooshinjohn

Did you swap the left/right signals yet?

Dennis Gardner

Man..... you guys are all vampires! 3-5AM? I'm glad that someone is here to give service tips 24/7!

headrott

F1nut wrote: »

Install lock washers on all of them and the nuts will not come loose again.

I have to tighten the tops too. I will get some lock washers first. Tightening the tops and bottoms definitely helped stop the drivers from bottoming out when I listened earlier. Thanks to all that helped. I will get some lock-washers, install them, re-tighten the tops and bopttoms and give another listen.

headrott

There is still a rattling sound coming from at least the right speaker due to the caps (upper) not tightened all the way down. The scratching noise has stopped, however. I will need to actually look at the drivers while they are moving to see if the move less than they did previously. I believe once the caps screws are all tightened down, the speakers will function as they should. I will report back when I am done. Thanks again all.

gmcman

How quick do the drivers return when you do the push test?

leftwinger57

Hey just an idea to throw out there. When re foaming a surround all say center to prevent voice coil rub. Maybe not a surround issue being butyl but a vc going bad, could this be a possibility ?....Lew