Streaming for Dummies

OK, I admit it when it comes to streaming I am a dummy.

I have a Win10 computer with a USB connected DAC. I wish is to bypass Windows and send a bit-perfect stream to the DAC.

For a quick test I downloaded Spotify. I set it to use the computer but I am getting audio out of the TV and not the DAC.

What am I missing?
Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4

Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
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Comments

  • mlistens03mlistens03 Posts: 2,495
    Ok, so I don't have good answer for what's wrong, but i can give you an idea to try and fix it...
    So you are using a Win10 PC with a TV, correct? Is this HDMI? Go into the TV's menu, and look for the "sound" option. Under sound, there will most likely be an option to turn off the internal speakers. Since the input is HDMI, the TV should communicate with the PC so that the PC doesn't send audio through the HDMI ports. I think, once again I could be totally wrong. Then, the PC will look for somewhere else to send audio, and in theory find your USB DAC. If it doesn't, then, there are audio settings in Windows 10 that you can look at, to see what's going on, and change settings if needed. I haven't ever been into the audio settings on Windows 10, so I can't help you there. One more time, I say I'm not sure on any of this, but i believe it to be the case.
    If your not using HDMI, this may still work, but I doubt that it would.
    Micah
    If you're reading this, I've put up devices for a week; maybe more. I'll talk you guys later!
    I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,924
    Click the start menu, type sound, click on it and then take a screenshot of that window.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • haimochaimoc Posts: 1,018
    edited September 2018
    Probably, Spotify app does not have interface to Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI) or ASIO to send bitstream to the USB DAC. If you have your own audio files, you can play them with Foobar2000 (free) or licensed SW such JRiver to send bitstream to the USB DAC.
  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 5,155
    haimoc wrote: »
    Probably, Spotify app does not have interface to Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI) or ASIO to send bitstream to the USB DAC. If you have your own audio files, you can play them with Foobar2000 (free) or licensed SW such JRiver to send bitstream to the USB DAC.

    Tidal will also take control of the output device/Dac. It’s not free, but the same quality - 320mbps - costs the same as Spotify premium.
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
    ;
    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Parasound HCA-1000A, PSB Imagine B, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
  • haimochaimoc Posts: 1,018
    edited September 2018
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    haimoc wrote: »
    Probably, Spotify app does not have interface to Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI) or ASIO to send bitstream to the USB DAC. If you have your own audio files, you can play them with Foobar2000 (free) or licensed SW such JRiver to send bitstream to the USB DAC.

    Tidal will also take control of the output device/Dac. It’s not free, but the same quality - 320mbps - costs the same as Spotify premium.


    It is good to know that. Thanks. I also have Foobar2k to work with Linux's PulseAudio/Jack which is similar like Windows WASAPI/ASIO, too.

    djeaa4besr0b.png
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    9szz33i49dl6.png



  • rooftop59rooftop59 Posts: 5,155
    And the jump from Spotify to tidal is like, well, the jump from Spotify to cds. Well worth it imho...Of course that is only the $20 a month version...
    HT Rig:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Peachtree Audio NovaPre; B&K TX4430; Bryson BPD-1; Mains: Dynaudio Emit 10; Center - Polk cs400i; Heights, Center Surround - Klipsch KHC - 6 In-Ceiling; Surrounds - Monoprice in-ceiling; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5; LG UP870 4K BDP; NVidia ShieldTV
    ;
    Master Bedroom
    Marantz SR-5007; Parasound HCA-1000A, PSB Imagine B, NHT Super One CI surrounds, Martin Logan Dynamo (original), Squeezebox Touch
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,090
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Click the start menu, type sound, click on it and then take a screenshot of that window.

    Thanks Clipdat,

    The driver for the dac was not set as the default. Everything related to Windows is grayed out so I assume (hopefully) that it may be sending a "bit-perfect" stream to the DAC.

    Is this correct?
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • Sounds like you’re good to go.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,924
    machone wrote: »

    Thanks Clipdat,

    The driver for the dac was not set as the default. Everything related to Windows is grayed out so I assume (hopefully) that it may be sending a "bit-perfect" stream to the DAC.

    Is this correct?

    The ability for it to be "bit perfect" relies on the software and output plugin that you're using. I know the Tidal desktop client can gain exclusive control of the DAC and bypass the Windows mixer, I'm not familiar if the Spotify client can do the same as I've never tried it.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • jeremymarcinkojeremymarcinko Posts: 3,356
    edited September 2018
    Is there such a thing as a bit perfect mp3? I guess there could be, I mean, you wouldn’t want a lossier lossy file from Spotify. I guess.
    Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
  • haimochaimoc Posts: 1,018
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    haimoc wrote: »
    Probably, Spotify app does not have interface to Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI) or ASIO to send bitstream to the USB DAC. If you have your own audio files, you can play them with Foobar2000 (free) or licensed SW such JRiver to send bitstream to the USB DAC.

    Tidal will also take control of the output device/Dac. It’s not free, but the same quality - 320mbps - costs the same as Spotify premium.

    I just gave TIDAL a try, and it works great with the USB DAC.. :)


    z6ocu85ep30e.png


  • I'M NOT A DUMMY YOU'RE A DUMMY...just kidding I can be pretty dumb.
    Just a dude doing dude-ly things

    "Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
    " I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
    "Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
    "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
    "Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,780
    Clipdat wrote: »
    machone wrote: »

    Thanks Clipdat,

    The driver for the dac was not set as the default. Everything related to Windows is grayed out so I assume (hopefully) that it may be sending a "bit-perfect" stream to the DAC.

    Is this correct?

    The ability for it to be "bit perfect" relies on the software and output plugin that you're using. I know the Tidal desktop client can gain exclusive control of the DAC and bypass the Windows mixer, I'm not familiar if the Spotify client can do the same as I've never tried it.

    I've noticed with these cheaper streaming devices like Sonos, which claims it's bit perfect, that it all depends on the volume. The lower the volume, the less bits. The way around that is to set the volume control to fixed at just below max and use the volume control of another piece.

    Takes away from the whole idea of an all-in-one device for streaming though.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,924
    edited November 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    I've noticed with these cheaper streaming devices like Sonos, which claims it's bit perfect, that it all depends on the volume. The lower the volume, the less bits. The way around that is to set the volume control to fixed at just below max and use the volume control of another piece.

    Takes away from the whole idea of an all-in-one device for streaming though.

    Good point Tony, and something poignant to remember when looking at streamers that have a built in volume control of some sort. As you mention, most of these are "bit crushers" in terms of their functionality, and audibly degrade the quality of the signal.

    In terms of your comment regarding "just below max" or the equivalent of 99%, can you remind me what the reasoning is behind this? I believe I've read similar sentiment about "one click back from full" when using these types of devices on this forum or elsewhere online.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,780
    The idea of fixing the volume on these devices is to keep them bit perfect, as they lose some bits at lower volumes. However that also takes away some of the convenience too by having to use another piece for volume.

    Now, how that translates in real world use....I can barely tell the difference personally.. So I keep mine variable while also keeping the convenience. Some things in audio while factually correct don't always translate into audible differences.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,883
    tonyb wrote: »
    Clipdat wrote: »
    machone wrote: »

    Thanks Clipdat,

    The driver for the dac was not set as the default. Everything related to Windows is grayed out so I assume (hopefully) that it may be sending a "bit-perfect" stream to the DAC.

    Is this correct?

    The ability for it to be "bit perfect" relies on the software and output plugin that you're using. I know the Tidal desktop client can gain exclusive control of the DAC and bypass the Windows mixer, I'm not familiar if the Spotify client can do the same as I've never tried it.

    I've noticed with these cheaper streaming devices like Sonos, which claims it's bit perfect, that it all depends on the volume. The lower the volume, the less bits. The way around that is to set the volume control to fixed at just below max and use the volume control of another piece.

    Takes away from the whole idea of an all-in-one device for streaming though.

    That's a good point, but for what these are typically used for - running music in zones - I don't see it as an issue. For a better 2-channel listening experience, a model without built-in amplification (like the Connect) is preferred. In that case, setting the device to a fixed output is the obvious choice, since you'd be using a pre-amp or integrated amp to control volume, or at least should be. For background music, controlling the volume via the streaming device shouldn't be a concern.
    7.1 - polk RTi10 x 3 (LCR) : FXi3 x 2 : RTi4 x 4 : Sunfire SDS-12 : Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 : Adcom GFA-7500 : Squeezebox Touch : DIRECTV : Roku SE : Panasonic PT-AX200U PJ @ 120"
    5.1 - Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 x 4 : ProCenter 1000 : Klipsch Sub-10 : Pioneer Elite SC-91: DIRECTV : LG OLED55B6P : Roku Premiere+
    Garage Duty - polk Monitor 10s : Pioneer A-717 Integrated Amp : Squeezebox Classic
  • mdaudioguymdaudioguy Posts: 4,883
    tonyb wrote: »
    Now, how that translates in real world use....I can barely tell the difference personally.. So I keep mine variable while also keeping the convenience. Some things in audio while factually correct don't always translate into audible differences.
    For what I think of as my unattended zones (deck, garage, backyard), I set my Squeezebox devices to variable output, since they're connected to signal-sensing amps set at a fixed volume. For the Squeezebox devices connected to my HT and hybrid rigs, I fix the output and control volume with my receiver or integrated.
    7.1 - polk RTi10 x 3 (LCR) : FXi3 x 2 : RTi4 x 4 : Sunfire SDS-12 : Yamaha Aventage RX-A2040 : Adcom GFA-7500 : Squeezebox Touch : DIRECTV : Roku SE : Panasonic PT-AX200U PJ @ 120"
    5.1 - Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 x 4 : ProCenter 1000 : Klipsch Sub-10 : Pioneer Elite SC-91: DIRECTV : LG OLED55B6P : Roku Premiere+
    Garage Duty - polk Monitor 10s : Pioneer A-717 Integrated Amp : Squeezebox Classic
  • vcwatkinsvcwatkins Posts: 1,856
    I do the same - variable on Sonos zones (usually set amp volume so that upper quarter of Sonos range is appropriate), fixed on Sonos listening room rig, fixed on SBT’s.

    I haven’t really noticed a material difference between 75+% variable and fixed, and very much appreciate the convenience. In fact, the one variable zone that I run directly to amp (no attenuation) has remarkably good sound imo.
    Den: Rega RP6 * AT33PTGII * Budgie SUT * Jolida jd9 * Roon (Sonic Transporter) * PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Sunfire Signature II * PSAudio p3 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2
    Office: Roon * Sonore UltraRendu (LPS-1, WW Plat7, Iso Regen, Lush) * ProJect Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * PSAudio Dectet * DH Labs Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
    Beach: Music Hall MMF5.1se * Speed Box II * DL103r * Lounge Copla/LCRIII * Sonos * Schiit Yggdrasil * Belles 20a Pre * First Watt F5 Clone * PSAudio Dectet * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,780
    I have my other sonos zp90 running my kitchen area, and 2 sets of outdoor speakers. When I rejoined the 2 channel/HT, I also setup the other Sonos in that area just going straight to the B&k 1430 AMP. I was also surprised how well that sounded.
    HT SYSTEM-2 channel
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Dynaudio Audience 72
    Polk FX500 surrounds
    Cary xciter dac
    Cullen modded Sonos
    Joule la-100 pre
    B&k Ref 4420 amp

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Analysis plus crystal oval ic's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    B&k 1430
    Tad 803 speakers
  • Why not use one of the Raspberry setup with a DAC / spdif HAT? You can build one to act exactly like a Logitech touch for under 300 with decent dac and 7" touch screen. If you decide to go down that path you can listen to Spotify, Tidal, Deezer, Qobuz, plus bunch of other stuff that LMS supports.

    The one thing that I am not 100% sure is the volume control. I have always used it with volume set to 100% and used external preamp to control volume.
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,924
    Anyone here on the closed beta of Qobuz?
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • steveinazsteveinaz Posts: 18,840
    Signed up for it...but haven't seen any email reply back.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i | Preamp/DAC: PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell | Power Amp: Parasound Halo A21 | Speakers: PSB Imagine T2 | Cables: Kimber Hero XLR; Kimber 8VS Bi-Wire; DH Labs D-75 Dig Coax | AC Power: Panamax M5300-PM
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,924
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Signed up for it...but haven't seen any email reply back.

    Same here. I told them that I'm getting a CXN V2 and would very much like to beta test as I'm not interested in supporting TIDAL. No response.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 5,924
    Supposedly Qobuz is launching officially on February 14th.
    • "Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
  • codycatalistcodycatalist Posts: 2,075
    Signed up back in early Jan....nothing so far.
    Just a dude doing dude-ly things

    "Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
    " I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
    "Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
    "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
    "Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,090
    Just checked out the Qobuz site.
    In addition to streaming, they offer cd and hi-rez downloads at decent prices and individual tracks when available.
    Easy to navigate.
    I like it.

    Open to USA on Feb 14th.
    Mojo Audio Joule v5>>Quantum Byte w/JRiver 24 and Fidelizer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • codycatalistcodycatalist Posts: 2,075
    LOL I got closed beta access two days ago. Just signed up and downloading.
    Just a dude doing dude-ly things

    "Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
    " I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
    "Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
    "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
    "Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member
  • Just saw Tidal is doing a 60 trial if you start before tomorrow. Tempting for anyone that’s been on the fence.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Sony CDP-CE375 / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    Harman Kardon HK 3770 > JBL Studio 580 + SVS SB12-NSD or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • codycatalistcodycatalist Posts: 2,075
    Just saw Tidal is doing a 60 trial if you start before tomorrow. Tempting for anyone that’s been on the fence.

    I got a 90 day trial from trying it before and cancelling a month or so ago. If anyone tried it before check your email.
    Just a dude doing dude-ly things

    "Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
    " I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
    "Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
    "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
    "Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member
  • codycatalistcodycatalist Posts: 2,075
    edited February 13
    I can already tell it won't work for me. Qobuz, sounds good but is missing A LOT of artists or whole entire albums from artists that were official releases.

    I will run this month out but I HIGHLY doubt I will keep it. I can't miss most of my hip hop or EDM tracks.
    Just a dude doing dude-ly things

    "Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
    " I have always had a champange taste with a beer budget" - Rick88
    "Just because the thread is getting views don't mean much .. I like a good train wreck doesn't mean i want to be in one..." - pitdogg2
    "Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know." - heiney9
    "Audiophiles are the male equivalent of cat ladies." - Audiokarma Member
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