RTi and CSi Impression - Boring

slink

I bought a pair of the RTi6s along with a CSi3 and got the free PSW202 to go along with it. Have some cheap surrounds and a Denon AVR-2802.

My primary concern was the sound of the center and fronts, sub not really used in my apartment. I'll be honest with you. For music they weren't bad although the music does not seem to leap out of these speakers. The vocals are present and rather laid back. Clarity is not bad, reasonable detail although it seemed some elements would get lost in the wall of sound.

Home theatre, on the other hand, was a big disappointment. The spoken dialogue is not so clear on the CSi3 and I wasn't exactly overwhelmed by the sound. It seemed to be done so much better by other speakers in the store. Perhaps they were more mid-high end friendly while these seem to do a very good job with the lows. My cheap small surrounds had more 'clarity' of the mids and highs than these.

I listened to Klipsch speakers there too and they were much more direct and exciting. The clarity was staggering and far superior to the Polks. I did like the Polk lower end and especially the wood veneers. Love it. But the bottom line is the sound and I'm wondering if this is just the sound of the RTi CSi series, a laid back conservative sound. What drove me crazy is that you know you are listening to speakers using this system. Additionally, home theatre isn't exactly stellar, albeit acceptable. What is your opinion? Do I need more break in time? Doesn't sound like it... I'd love to love these speakers but it seems they are rather dull and lifeless.

PS -- The RTi4s are a steal for surrounds though...

Airplay355

try messing around with placement.....what is your source? what were u listening to? are u listening to music in pro logic? are u watching movies in pro logic? what surround mode are you using?

steveinaz

How long have you had them? Can't imagine that combination sounding "laid back" by any stretch. I would be weary of a speaker that sounds "exciting" as this usually ends up being "fatiguing." Give the polks a good 100hrs and take another listen, critically....

HBombToo

Originally posted by steveinaz
I would be weary of a speaker that sounds "exciting" as this usually ends up being "fatiguing."

We are aligned Steve!

Henry

I will visit you and your Athena's this year....

slink

Originally posted by steveinaz
How long have you had them? Can't imagine that combination sounding "laid back" by any stretch. I would be weary of a speaker that sounds "exciting" as this usually ends up being "fatiguing." Give the polks a good 100hrs and take another listen, critically....

Don't have so much time left before I have to decide whether to return! I've had them for about 10 days.

The exciting aspect of the speakers are that they are very clear and crisp. There is a feeling (others felt the same) that with the other speakers (Klipsch) it felt like the singer was right in front of you. Leads seemed to image in front of you as opposed to the Polks which felt like the sound was coming out of speakers at the end of the room.

I have heard the discussion about the Klipsch being potentially fatiguing but I'm wondering whether that is also because they are so efficient that volume might be set too high at low levels.

The surround modes I heard were DTS and DD and I watched Gladiator and Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Neither sounded very exciting and were adequate. It was tough to hear Russell Crowe clearly in Gladiator with his low bassy rumbling voice and that was the real big factor in my thinking that perhaps these speakers just aren't great for home theatre.

PolkWannabie

Slink,

No offense but as I was reading through the first paragraph or two of your post I was thinking ... hmmm ... a Klipsch lover ...

Some of course do and then there's the rest of us ... you gotta go with what YOUR ears tell you, but personally 2-3 minutes is about all I can stand of horns.

pjdami

Hi slink. Sorry that you are having some trouble with the sound of your new RTi / CSi's. Tell us a little more about your DVD player. Do you have the sound set to "bitstream" under the audio section? Dynamic compression turned off (if applicable)?

Sounds a little strange that you think they are okay for music but not for HT. Some people really prefer the more forward sound. The Denon receiver is also known to be more "laid back" sounding as well.

What are you using for the digital cable? Optical or coax? Is it at a minimum the 20 dollar AR or a Monster Cable type?

Just brainstorming here a little.

PJ

slink

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
No offense but as I was reading through the first paragraph or two of your post I was thinking ... hmmm ... a Klipsch lover ...

Some of course do and then there's the rest of us ... you gotta go with what YOUR ears tell you, but personally 2-3 minutes is about all I can stand of horns.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing but in reading the posts at Circuit City it appears I'm not alone and it's probably due to the CSi3 being, IMHO and someone else's, not quite that good at home theatre and voice reproduction. I've had to boost the center 5db just to get it to the point where it isn't seemingly drowned by the RTi6s. It just doesn't seem to be so clear and that is what is missing. On home theatre you can really hear the timbres even on sattelite speaker systems and dialogue is much clearer on them (you can hear glass shattering "crisply" but not with the CSi3 it seems). I'm just wondering if the CSi3 is really the weak point. Not sure what to do though.

What is it about the Klipsch horns that you can't stand after a couple of minutes?

Tomorrow I plan on a good long listen to hear what I can and cannot stand. I do know the Polks are listenable for length and wonder if I can someone swap the sub and the CSi3 for the CSi5 although that would mean the speaker might not be timbre matched plus issues of power... This is so frustrating and just wish the center made that voice crisp and clear for movies and I'd be sold without the Klipsch imaging that is kinda cool.

slink

Originally posted by pjdami
Hi slink. Sorry that you are having some trouble with the sound of your new RTi / CSi's. Tell us a little more about your DVD player. Do you have the sound set to "bitstream" under the audio section? Dynamic compression turned off (if applicable)?

Sounds a little strange that you think they are okay for music but not for HT. Some people really prefer the more forward sound. The Denon receiver is also known to be more "laid back" sounding as well.

What are you using for the digital cable? Optical or coax? Is it at a minimum the 20 dollar AR or a Monster Cable type?

Thanks so much. I've got a Toshiba SD5700 DVD player. My CDs are sent digitally through the optical cable. All speakers are connected with Monster cable. The receiver is now dated (wow) but it's an excellent piece and can really separate sound and put out a nice signal. The RTis really bring out the bass potential I never knew existed in the receiver. That said, the general output is still lifeless and I wonder if it is the CSi3 center...

There is no question that music is better than HT and that is probably because with HT clear dialogue is critical. Music can be a little less "clear" and still be more than adequate or sound proper although it seems even vocals for music are not all that great.

Thanks so much guys for helping me out here.

shack

This sounds like it could be a calibration issue. A good calibration disc like Avia or Video Essentials and a SPL meter could solve your problems. Have you gone into the 2802's setup menu and tried to adjust each speakers sound level with the test tone? It's not ideal but better than not doing anything. Are your speakers set to large or small? If you haven't gone throught even these basic steps the sound quality of your HT setup is a crapshoot at best. When you play music is it in "stereo" mode? The 2802 can be set up differently for each mode, It sounds like you need to work with the reciever to make sure everything is set properly.

Frank Z

To add to what everyone else has already thrown at ya...

Home Theater Handbook for a lot of good info on proper set up.

Calibration using an SPL Meter, if you don't already know how.

Make sure your speakers are slightly toed-in, and if need be use a couple of rubber door stops to angle the CC downward/upward toward your primary listening position.

pjdami

and if need be use a couple of rubber door stops to angle the CC downward/upward toward your primary listening position.

That's a great tip there Frank. I'm going to have to get some of those for my center channel myself.

Yep, looks like we've given slink a good troubleshooting list here. Hopefully, the answer is to be found with one of them.

slink

Originally posted by shack
This sounds like it could be a calibration issue. A good calibration disc like Avia or Video Essentials and a SPL meter could solve your problems. Have you gone into the 2802's setup menu and tried to adjust each speakers sound level with the test tone? It's not ideal but better than not doing anything. Are your speakers set to large or small? If you haven't gone throught even these basic steps the sound quality of your HT setup is a crapshoot at best. When you play music is it in "stereo" mode? The 2802 can be set up differently for each mode, It sounds like you need to work with the reciever to make sure everything is set properly.

Wow... this was really a good comment and this solved one problem. The center was set for "large" and when set on "small" the CSi3 responds FAR better. Dialogue is MUCH clearer. I wouldn't give it a 5 star rating but still much better and sufficient. The highs are far clearer and now "there." I ended up setting the front speakers on large anyways because they sound deep that way. The RTi6s are very versatile, rather surprising how good they are all around.

The Klipsch has more "in your face feel" and the theatre coming at you but the Polks are now much more acceptable given the change in setting. Tomorrow I'll see how much of the Klipsch I can really stand and whether I want to change. As crazy as it sounds, I'm also a bit hooked on the wood veneer of the RTi6s and the build quality. As much as the sound was good on the Klipsch RB-25 I think it's sad when they list them at $500 (can get them for $400) and have some average build with vinyl.

slink

Thanks all... but here is an interesting question. I was wondering if I should trade in the RTi6s for the R50s which are selling for practically the same price! That's actually pretty incredible IMHO and will want to take a look.

Thanks for the tip but my sub isn't even connected at this point. I'm wondering whether I could trade up with the PSW202 since so many here seem to say it is a POS and many have problems with it.

Early B.

Set your fronts back to small and keep focusing on the calibration issues as Shack has outlined. It's not the speakers that are posing the problem. Eventually, you'll get the sound you're looking for.

fireshoes

If he isn't using a sub, the mains should remain set to large and sub to off

shack

The R50s are NOT an upgrade to the RTi6. Just because it is a floorstander a has more drivers does not make it better. The RTi6 is probably the gem of the RTi line at this time. Mate it (RTi6)with one of the several nice subs out there from HSU, Adire, Dayton or SVS and you have an even better setup for stereo listening and a pretty good HT foundation as well.

Early B.

No sub? Why not? Use the 202 and keep it at or slightly below reference levels so you won't disturb the neighbors too much. Kind of defeats the purpose to have an HT setup with bookshelves as fronts and no sub.

organ

Sorry to hear about your problem Slink. I

glemay

Organ,

I

Frank Z

I'm confused. Which is correct:
WEWE
WEEWEE
OUI'-OUI'

PolkWannabie

Originally posted by organ
Horns are awesome.

Yep, if you like ear bleed ... As I said, my limit is a few minutes regardless of volume or horn quality. After that it's roughly equivalent to running over the cats tail, again and again and again ...

organ

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
Yep, if you like ear bleed ... As I said, my limit is a few minutes regardless of volume or horn quality. After that it's roughly equivalent to running over the cats tail, again and again and again ...

Have you ever been to a live concert? Theater to see a movie? There you go, you survived the 'ear bleeding' sound for at least a few hours;).

Maurice

organ

Glemay,
I was on a Mac typing that. I don't know how to turn it off LOL

Maurice

gregure

Originally posted by slink
I was wondering if I should trade in the RTi6s for the R50s which are selling for practically the same price!

Slink,

I've read all of the responses to your queries, and it all seems great. These guys really know what they're talking about. I'm new to the world of privilage and owning great speakers, but I thought I'd share some thoughts anyway. I'm not sure what your budget is, but I've always been of the mind that speaker systems should have towers for the l/r fronts. If you aren't happy with the clarity and impact of your current Polk speaker system, try upgrading to having tower fronts. RTi 8's seem to be very good, although you would need a decent sub (read: bigger than a 202) to get great sound. That would probably give you what you're looking for. I just bought RTi 10's, FXi3's and a CSi 3. I found I was having a similar problem with the CSi 3, it was just a bit too small to contend with the big guns. So, I took the 3 back and paid the difference to upgrade to a CSi 5, and that has made a tremendous difference. The 5 is really a great speaker, clear to very low levels. Couldn't be happier with the system. If your budget is really big, you may want to consider the RTi 12's. I wasn't quite able to spend that much, even though I financed the package. But those babies are monsters, and they sound amazing. Not a huge fan of Klipsch, they just never sounded quite as good as polks to me, but I agree that if it will drive you nuts thinking about it you should just go with Klipsch before you spend too much investing in perfecting your Polk system. Hope this helps.

slink

And the winner is..... Polk RTi6 over the Klipsch RB-35, which is an 8" speaker. Comparison to the Klipsch RB-25 was ridiculous as it was not acceptable.

It was a tough one. I absolutely loved the forwardness of the Klipsch in presenting the voice of the singer and speaker with breathtaking clarity. Really quite superb. However, other than that apparent strength almost everything else was a weakness except for speaker efficiency. The Polk are not as "alive" but they have much more guts and oomph, are "sweeter" sounding and much more versatile. I chose the versatility over the specialty. Surprisingly I found the Polk better for rock than the Klipsch, which make it sound like the guitar lead and vocal are up front with the cymbals but the rest of the band is left at the back of the stage.

Music: Overall: Polk by a wide margin overall. Klipsch beats Polk by a decent margin in Jazz and presence. Soundstage is much wider and bigger. The Jazz singer's voices are emphasized, as are pianos, and it seems that they have taken a step forward... very very nice. Polk seems a little lost in the mix in stereo. Klipsch is missing the midrange and low to a large degree. It MUST be paired with a sub and even so, I think it's lacking or is just overpowered by the boost range in the upper area. A good center for the Polk will compensate somewhat for the lack of vocal clarity and forwardness. The sound of the Polk was much 'heavier' and bigger. Listen to Santana's latest album through both and you won't believe how "oinky" the Klipsch sounds and seems to be sort of tinny. The Polks were big and bouncy although not as "live" sounding. Tower of Power was closer with good vocal clarity of the Klipsch but the Polks had a softer and better overall sound to capture the frequencies of the entire spectrum. Aerosmith -- not even close. Polks were much bigger and better sounding than the Klipsch, which just didn't sound that good.

Home Theatre: Couldn't check this out but it seems that Klipsch is definitely the better choice. It shines in the highs like sattelite systems. Polk is acceptable.

Listenability: Klipsch makes good speakers but I can hear the emphasis on the highs being tiresome and can be really harsh, especially if the sound is mostly highs. It has nothing to do with good and bad horns but more the type of music or sound you are listening to. If the mixture isnt right then you will be blasted by mid-highs. If it fits the speaker than they will be the best in class for sure. But I wanted the overall versatility and don't have the ability to get two pairs of speakrs. It seems to me that unless you get high end Klipsch with a big driver (8" or better) these will sound more like crisp satellites than like sweet complete sound range. Polks are easier to listen to but do lack some clarity at times, especially from vocal. Can get annoying. Wondering if upgrading the center to the CSi5 will make a difference in vocal clarity. Still very listenable and since my receiver has a setting for center as "small" the sound was clearer although I woudn't say "crisp" and just clear.

Construction: Other than the cool looking copper drivers, the Polk RTi series is beautiful to behold, especially at that price, and heavy. Nice, thick, veneer cabinet. Klipsch is lightweight with plastic centers and thin vinyl finish. Adequate but I would have like to have an option of something sturdy. I hated the grills with the magnet. Just didn't give me great assurance of it lasting so very long. The interior of the Klipsch is cool to look at though, I'll admit.

Value: Polk easily. I got a sub, pair of RTi6s and an RTi3 center for roughly $579. The RB-35s alone would have set me back $500. I'm thinking of trading in the PSW202 if I can and get another sub and a pair of RTi4s. Those are unreal price for those speakers.

Notes: You better have a powerful amp to make the Polks sound good. If you do, they can sound very sweet and easy to listen to. They don't rely on the sub as much.

This concludes our test. I'm sad not to have the presence of the Klipsch but I'll be happy with the Polk all around. Seems like a good thing compromise.

slink

Originally posted by gregure
So, I took the 3 back and paid the difference to upgrade to a CSi 5, and that has made a tremendous difference. The 5 is really a great speaker, clear to very low levels. Couldn't be happier with the system.

While the CSi3 is supposedly timbre matched, could I use the CSi5? This may provide the clarity I'm looking for and just not getting with the CSI3 although with the smaller speaker setting it seems to be much better than it was. Thoughts?

pjdami

Slink,

Very nice review. You certainly show that you are knowlegable in what you were looking for. It happens all the time when comparing speakers. You find strengths and weaknesses in both and wish you could combine the strengths of both into one speaker. In the end, going with your "gut" feel like you did is what will make you happy in the end.

Early B.

You better have a powerful amp to make the Polks sound good. If you do, they can sound very sweet and easy to listen to.

You're right on the money with that statement. With more power, the vocals become more forward, which is what you liked about Klipsch.

PolkWannabie

Originally posted by organ
Have you ever been to a live concert? Theater to see a movie? There you go, you survived the 'ear bleeding' sound for at least a few hours;).

Maurice

Actually my wife and I go to live concerts and shows frequently and have for the last thirty plus years and we usually have seats in the first ten rows and to me this is anything but an ear bleed experience. The SRT's I now have are very much like the live experience, incredible width, depth, height, imaging and placement with very little fatigue which imho is very unlike the Klipsch experience, but then to each his own.

glemay

Frank, it's oui, oui;)