I was thinking...

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Comments

  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Micah, I know people have mentioned this in other threads, regarding interconnect cables, and you seem hot to buy new speakers, but if I remember correctly, you currently have two sets of towers of some sort in your rig.

    I would suggest that buying a $40 set of Blue Jeans interconnects and running them from your CD player would make more difference in sound quality than the aforementioned speakers would, based on your current cables.

    Heck, if you don't get any offers that pan out, I would be happy to ship you a pair of LC-1's gratis. (There's some Latin schoolwork for you.) :p

    I’m actually selling everything except for my Missions. I think that the Missions, although nice, are a pretty low end speaker. The other two towers are Infinity Crescendo 3007s (which sound good but just don’t “do it” for me, if you know what I mean, and the LSis, which just don’t have a sound I like.

    I plan to get cables anyway, because I’m selling a lot of gear (I am estimating around $1000 with just the speakers I am selling) so I will have money left over for cables most likely.

    Thank you for the offer, but it really isn’t necessary, because what I have works and is going to be replaced anyway.

    Clipdat wrote: »
    Where did you hear that their horns ring and sound bad?
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    I’ve heard that the horns tend to “ring” and generally sound bad, although I’ve never heard them in person so I don’t really know. I don’t like their newer stuff since they were bought by Audiovox, it all seems to have very high failure rates.
    Micah

    I don’t remember, Maybe I just made it up in my head, but I’m pretty sure I at least heard it somewhere. Like I said, I don’t know if it’s true, as I’ve never listened to them in person.
    halo wrote: »
    Another inexpensive brand of cables to consider are Signal Cable. Club Polk members get a discount. Just be sure to mention that you're a member here before you purchase.

    I will look into them, thanks!
    Thanks again for your suggestions,
    Micah
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    Looked into Signal cable, and with how much I’m gonna need, it will be too pricey, at least for speaker cables. I may go that route for ICs, though.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    @mlistens03 just catching up on this thread. Work's been crazy. I smiled proudly after seeing those sketches. Reminds me of myself back in the day. I used to sketch everything, always spinning new designs in my head.

    Now I'm an engineer! I get to design things everyday!

    Keep that mind spinning! And do what you love, as I do! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    The perils of thinking/knowing too much...

    0ldduip5ce9g.png

    Take it from me -- a guy who's thought a lot over the course of the last four or five decades.

    ;)
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    verb wrote: »
    @mlistens03 just catching up on this thread. Work's been crazy. I smiled proudly after seeing those sketches. Reminds me of myself back in the day. I used to sketch everything, always spinning new designs in my head.

    Now I'm an engineer! I get to design things everyday!

    Keep that mind spinning! And do what you love, as I do! :smile:

    I will! Although, Doc, I will be careful not to think too much. :wink:
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    edited June 2018
    Klipsch certainly wasn't/isn't my personal favorite purveyor of horn-loaded loudspeaker sound -- I lived with a pair of 1974 vintage Cornwalls for ten years, so I feel pretty entitled to my opinion. The "heritage" Klipsch loudspeakers, all three ways, are fun and lively; "great for tube amps"... but more aggressive and shouty than I prefer (unless extensively tweaked and modified -- way beyond there being much "Klipsch" left to 'em any more!).

    There's lots of opportunity, new and vintage, for good, crisp but not overwhelming, high-sensitivity, real-sounding loudspeakers using horns for some or all frequency bands. Mostly not cheap, but DIY (or careful improvement of existing designs/execution) is a fun, rewarding and cost effective option.

    Consider, e.g., the famous "Econo-Wave" saga -- not high sensitivity, but exploiting the best of both worlds (smooth, accurate sound top to bottom).
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/zilchs-ak-design-collaborative-econowave-speaker.150939/

    The depth and breadth of material in that thread (and related links therein) will blow your mind - take it slow, and with a thirst to learn.

    Loudspeaker design is science, but it ain't rocket science, and there's art to it, as well. It is a fun and rewarding hobby at any level -- from tweaking/rehabbing crossovers to a pure-play design and build. Drop in to the exercise wherever you're comfortable. Kits are always an excellent option -- great ones are available from www.madisound.com and of course also www.partsexpress.com The latter has a good forum, a project showcase and lots and lots of information aimed at all levels of interest.

    40757230020_e585a9d1ee_b.jpgDSC_1423 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    I did not build the cabinets :) I had them built. It's not pretty when I try to do real woodworking :p

    40994464340_3cdd728ccc_b.jpgDSC_1506 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    ... Listenin' to Aja as I typed that :)
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Klipsch certainly wasn't/isn't my personal favorite purveyor of horn-loaded loudspeaker sound -- I lived with a pair of 1974 vintage Cornwalls for ten years, so I feel pretty entitled to my opinion. The "heritage" Klipsch loudspeakers, all three ways, are fun and lively; "great for tube amps"... but more aggressive and shouty than I prefer (unless extensively tweaked and modified -- way beyond there being much "Klipsch" left to 'em any more!).
    Exactly what I was thinking. You could make them sound flat and nice to listen to, but then you don’t have a Klipsch speaker.
    There's lots of opportunity, new and vintage, for good, crisp but not overwhelming, high-sensitivity, real-sounding loudspeakers using horns for some or all frequency bands. Mostly not cheap, but DIY (or careful improvement of existing designs/execution) is a fun, rewarding and cost effective option.

    Consider, e.g., the famous "Econo-Wave" saga -- not high sensitivity, but exploiting the best of both worlds (smooth, accurate sound top to bottom).
    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/zilchs-ak-design-collaborative-econowave-speaker.150939/

    The depth and breadth of material in that thread (and related links therein) will blow your mind - take it slow, and with a thirst to learn.

    Loudspeaker design is science, but it ain't rocket science, and there's art to it, as well. It is a fun and rewarding hobby at any level -- from tweaking/rehabbing crossovers to a pure-play design and build. Drop in to the exercise wherever you're comfortable. Kits are always an excellent option -- great ones are available from www.madisound.com and of course also www.partsexpress.com The latter has a good forum, a project showcase and lots and lots of information aimed at all levels of interest.
    I have always though that building a speaker would be fun, and so would designing one, but I don’t think that I will be able to successfully design one, although building one shouldn’t be too much of a challenge.
    40757230020_e585a9d1ee_b.jpgDSC_1423 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    I did not build the cabinets :) I had them built. It's not pretty when I try to do real woodworking :p
    Who cares how they look, it’s how they sound that is important! :)
    40994464340_3cdd728ccc_b.jpgDSC_1506 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    I think in my current position, a relatively high efficiency speaker would be best (as in, 92-95) as I do have some power, and I don’t have the wallet needed for the tube rabbit hole. I’m already in the vinyl rabbit hole, which has completely drained me, so I will stick with the (as you would say) soiled state amplifiers. :)

    I think I probably could design and build a pair of speakers, but I have no skills (literally, none) in the area of woodworking. I am somewhat worried that I will attempt to build it, then screw something up and trash the entire thing. And I just can not afford to put tons and tons of money into something and then accidentally ruin it, ya know?

    I will just mention here, that after tomorrow, I will not be able to be online at all until about Wednesday or Thursday. I am going to a camp for the week, so I will not have time.

    Micah
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    have fun -- we promise we won't talk about you behind your back!

    Well, actually, we probably will -- but you'll find out when you return. ;)
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    have fun -- we promise we won't talk about you behind your back!

    Well, actually, we probably will -- but you'll find out when you return. ;)

    I will!
    I will have a LOT of reading to do when I get back.
    Thanks again!
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    I’ve heard about them! Very cool, but they all have one thing in common... they’re massive. And that means it is hard to place in my small room. And they tend to be rather placement sensitive, right?
    Micah
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    well, there are folks who use relatively small baffles, but, yes, placement-sensitive.
    And not everyone's cup of chai... but fairly easy to construct :)
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    micah, what city do you live in?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    Tony M wrote: »
    micah, what city do you live in?

    45ish minutes out of Orlando, why do you ask?
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    well, there are folks who use relatively small baffles, but, yes, placement-sensitive.
    And not everyone's cup of chai... but fairly easy to construct :)

    Wouldn’t a smaller baffle basically be running the driver in no cabinet?becuase then the sound pressure would be able to easily go around the baffle and cancel out the sound waves on the other side.
    I imagine it would be, it’s just a board with some holes in it for the drivers and some form of support to hold it up! :wink:
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited June 2018
    The bigger the City, the more speakers that get put on Craig's List. I live in a coastal city, so I only have half the area of what a city like say, Raliegh, has.

    Do you frequent Craig's List for audio bargains? Or local thrift shops and Pawn shops?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    Tony M wrote: »
    The bigger the City, the more speakers that get put on Craig's List. I live in a coastal city, so I only have half the area of what a city like say, Raliegh, has.

    Do you frequent Craig's List for audio bargains? Or local thrift shops and Pawn shops?

    I commonly look on eBay, although with my iPad locking me out of random websites (and CL being one of them) I need to look on there more often.

    Also, I just had another thought: what if I was to keep the speakers I have now and spend the money on restoring/upgrading them, and then getting better electronics? Keep in mind that I will restore the Missions either way, but I may or may not upgrade them if I get new speakers.
    Or I could get new speakers and electronics. I think that would be do-able, right?
    Micah
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited June 2018
    The money spent on your Missions reglueing, and cross-overs, (I like Mission speakers a lot by the way), you could pick up something REALLY cool in the way of other smaller size speakers. You just have to be able to get on Craig's list! Yard sales and Estate sales too.

    Your Missions could be reglued VERY cheaply. Aileen's Tacky glue works great! You would then be ahead money wise.

    You LSi's should be fine speakers too. I think I'd be happy with them.

    What kind of music do you listen to?
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    Tony M wrote: »
    The money spent on your Missions, I like Mission speakers a lot by the way, you could pick up something REALLY cool in the way of speakers. You just have to be able to get on Craig's list! Yard sales and Estate sales too.

    Your Missions could be reglued VERY cheaply. Aileen's Tacky glue works great! You would then be ahead money wise.

    You LSi's should be fine speakers too. I think I'd be happy with them.

    What kind of music do you listen to?

    If I was to put money into the Missions, it would probably be around $100 (new caps for the XO, new veneer, ferrofluid, speaker surrounds, etc.) and then I would spend the rest on electronics. (Or a pair of speakers, I don’t know)

    The Missions being reglued isn’t the problem, I mean all out refinishing, redoing crossovers, replacing the ferrofluid in the tweeters, etc. I was planning on replacing the surround sound on the drivers anyway, because first of all, the tend to harden over time, and second of all, I got one of them repaired a while back and he did it totally wrong. The roll of the surround is literally filled with dry glue. It plays, and sounds good, until you get a loud low frequency through them, then you just hear it hitting the limit because it can’t move freely, which cannot be good for the speaker.

    I like my LSis, and they are very nice speakers, but they just don’t have a sound that I like. I love speakers with bright and forward treble, and the LSis don’t give that to me.
    I listen to classic rock and roll (the Beatles, Eagles, LED Zeppelin, Queen, etc.).

    P. S. I should mention I plan to keep the Missions whether I get new speakers or not, because they are my favorite pairs of speakers that I’ve ever owned, and they were my first even remotely high end speakers. They also would still be restored, but at a later date.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    I think you could enjoy classic Polk monitor series speakers very much. monitor 7's. even 5's. Or the Polk S series. S6's or S8's would rock your world probably.

    I like your music myself, heck I was around when it came out on the radio, lol.

    Good luck in your search and enjoy the music the best you can. ;)
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    well, there are folks who use relatively small baffles, but, yes, placement-sensitive.
    And not everyone's cup of chai... but fairly easy to construct :)

    Wouldn’t a smaller baffle basically be running the driver in no cabinet?becuase then the sound pressure would be able to easily go around the baffle and cancel out the sound waves on the other side.
    I imagine it would be, it’s just a board with some holes in it for the drivers and some form of support to hold it up! :wink:

    Exactly so -- but the physics, and the psychoacoustics can get interesting with the right drivers. Woofers with high Qts can provide qualitatively satisfying bass on surprisingly small baffles -- or so feel the devotees.

    That said, cutoff frequency for 'flat' bass response is a function of baffle width.

    I went through an OB phase -- also a folded, tapered quarter-wave tube phase -- but moved back to more conventional cabinets (and horns, of course) :)
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    Tony M wrote: »
    I think you could enjoy classic Polk monitor series speakers very much. monitor 7's. even 5's. Or the Polk S series. S6's or S8's would rock your world probably.

    I’ve looked into the vintage Polks, but I’ve also heard they have a laid back treble, although I don’t know how true that is. Once again, I’ve never heard them, so I wouldn’t know.
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    mlistens03 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    well, there are folks who use relatively small baffles, but, yes, placement-sensitive.
    And not everyone's cup of chai... but fairly easy to construct :)

    Wouldn’t a smaller baffle basically be running the driver in no cabinet?becuase then the sound pressure would be able to easily go around the baffle and cancel out the sound waves on the other side.
    I imagine it would be, it’s just a board with some holes in it for the drivers and some form of support to hold it up! :wink:

    Exactly so -- but the physics, and the psychoacoustics can get interesting with the right drivers. Woofers with high Qts can provide qualitatively satisfying bass on surprisingly small baffles -- or so feel the devotees.

    That said, cutoff frequency for 'flat' bass response is a function of baffle width.

    I went through an OB phase -- also a folded, tapered quarter-wave tube phase -- but moved back to more conventional cabinets (and horns, of course) :)

    I think an open baffle would be really cool, but I won’t be able to give them the placement that they need, as I don’t have a ton of space for them.

    Micah
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,560
    edited June 2018
    Not a bad idea. A set of silver ICs might give that additional "brightness" that he's after.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Micah, I know people have mentioned this in other threads, regarding interconnect cables, and you seem hot to buy new speakers, but if I remember correctly, you currently have two sets of towers of some sort in your rig.

    I would suggest that buying a $40 set of Blue Jeans interconnects and running them from your CD player would make more difference in sound quality than the aforementioned speakers would, based on your current cables.

    Heck, if you don't get any offers that pan out, I would be happy to ship you a pair of LC-1's gratis. (There's some Latin schoolwork for you.) :p

  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    Clipdat wrote: »
    Not a bad idea. A set of silver ICs might give that additionally "brightness" that he's after.
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Micah, I know people have mentioned this in other threads, regarding interconnect cables, and you seem hot to buy new speakers, but if I remember correctly, you currently have two sets of towers of some sort in your rig.

    I would suggest that buying a $40 set of Blue Jeans interconnects and running them from your CD player would make more difference in sound quality than the aforementioned speakers would, based on your current cables.

    Heck, if you don't get any offers that pan out, I would be happy to ship you a pair of LC-1's gratis. (There's some Latin schoolwork for you.) :p

    Like I said before though, when all of my stuff is sold, I will have a lot more money than $100 for new ICs and speaker cables, and I want to spend some on restoring the Missions (probably $100-150), leaving me with a pile of cash to get a nice pair of speakers, or new electronics, or something. I just need to get this stuff sold.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,560
    I would just sell everything and keep the LSi towers. Or sell everything and buy these: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RP280FW/Klipsch-Reference-Premiere-RP-280F-Walnut.html
  • mlistens03
    mlistens03 Posts: 2,767
    edited June 2018
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I would just sell everything and keep the LSi towers. Or sell everything and buy these: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RP280FW/Klipsch-Reference-Premiere-RP-280F-Walnut.html

    I like the LSis, but they just don’t have a sound that I like. If I did like their sound, I would keep them instead of my Missions. The LSis just seem to have a very muted treble in my space and with my gear. They are great speakers, but they just aren’t enjoyable to me.

    I also think that smaller bookshelf speakers on stands will be the way to go in my space. Everything else (aside from the Missions) just tends to sound very boomy, no matter where I place them.
    I very much like my Missions, which is why I think maybe I should just keep them and get better electronics. But then again, my Missions, while great speakers, are not the best I can do for the money. So maybe I should put the money towards speakers.
    Or maybe ~$750 is enough to get speakers and electronics??
    I’m sorry if I’m being difficult, but I don’t like the LSis sound in my space, so I would prefer to get something different. It may just be the gear I had hooked up to them, but they just didn’t sound good to me. Besides, the only amp that I have that can drive them died on me and is no way sitting in the corner waiting to get fixed, so I wouldn’t have anything to listen to until I get an amp/preamp.
    I also read on AK that the new Klipsch speakers have high failure rates since AudioVox bought the company, so I don’t really want to get their speakers and then have them fail on me.
    Micah
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,560
    edited June 2018
    I've never thought of a passive speaker as something that could fail or have a "high failure rate".
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,009
    edited June 2018
    RTi from Polk is the only series of speakers I know of that have a bad crossover fail rate. :(

    The tweeter resistor ceramic things.

    Maybe M&K sub plate amps. And a few other sub plate amps I'm sure are on the list.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,560
    edited June 2018
    Yeah, I suppose crossover components could fail. Or if you overdrive them with some crappy amp, then you could blow a driver and that could be considered a "failure".

    But those Klipsch towers I linked have a 5 year warranty, so it appears that they are standing behind their product.
    Tony M wrote: »
    RTi from Polk is the only series of speakers I know of that have a bad crossover fail rate. :(

    The tweeter resistor ceramic things.

    Maybe M&K sub plate amps. And a few other sub plate amps I'm sure are on the list.