Surround back speaker ?

presidan

What should i look for in a surround back speaker ? Are there any specific surround back speakers out there ? Should the SB speaker be just like the center speaker that i use or like my suround speakers ? Should it be more or less powerfull than my center and/or surrounds ?
How high should it be placed and how far from the listener ?
Any suggestions are welcomed

juice21

Originally posted by presidan
What should i look for in a surround back speaker ?

a speaker that will mate well with what you are running for the rest of your system, ie. same tweeter and drivers.

Are there any specific surround back speakers out there ?

not that i know of, but you can use any center or 1 or 2 rears

Should the SB speaker be just like the center speaker that i use or like my suround speakers ?Should it be more or less powerfull than my center and/or surrounds ?

you could match it to your center, but i would concern myself matching it to the surrounds better. also, i would reccomend it NOT to over power you surrounds.

How high should it be placed and how far from the listener ?

i have mine about 3' above listening level...

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by presidan
...and how far from the listener ?

I've read receiver owner's manuals that recommend placing the surround back speakers less than six feet from the primary listening position. That's where I have mine and I think it sounds pretty good.

Larry

juice21

larry, just checked out your HT, nice set-up! looks like you got MORE than enough sound. nice pc hook-up for the real-time frequency response tests... very sweet!:D

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by juice21
larry, just checked out your HT, nice set-up! looks like you got MORE than enough sound. nice pc hook-up for the real-time frequency response tests... very sweet!:D

Juice:

Thanks very much for the compliment.

You never can have MORE than enough sound! I'm getting very close to replacing my trusty old Pioneer receiver with a more modern surround processor. I'm leaning toward a used Lexicon MC-1.

Of course the primary use for the home theater PC is video scaling and DVD playback. Regarding the real-time frequency response test, from reading the caption you can see that I don't pretend to be actively involved in this. I'm merely demonstrating a potential use for a PC that is permanently connected to a home theater set-up. The way I look at RTA in a multi-channel environment, measuring the room response isn't going to do anything unless you're prepared to buy a LOT of quality equalizers. I look at RTA and equalization, as representing the LAST TWEAK, after I've gotten my equipment upgraded to the limits of my budget.

Larry

mikemokr

Larry, allow me to compliment you not only on your setup but your documentation of it.

I have a couple questions for ya:

-- how do you find the CS400i works with the SDA 1-Cs? In particular, how is the timbre matching? I ask because I have Monitor 7Cs (fairly similar vintage as the SDA 1-Cs), am looking at getting the CS400i and wonder if the new tweet might be so different from the 14-year-old model that it would be a problem.

-- and now for the really dumb (or rather, vain/cosmetic) question: I also have a pair of M3IIs, as satellites in my kitchen/eating room, and I too have them hanging "upside-down." But you seem to have the polkaudio badge right-side up on yours. How'd you do that? I couldn't seem to get mine to budge.

Larry Chanin

Mike:

Thanks for the compliment, and my appologies to presidan if we are getting a little off-topic.

With regard to your question about the timbre matching of the CS400i to the SDA-1Cs, let me first say that I'm not one of those guys with a "golden ear". Nevertheless, in calibrating my setup I have spent many hours with calibration DVDs panning sounds from speaker to speaker. During those sessions of careful listening I have never noticed any change in pitch or volume as the sounds moved from the mains to the center.

With regard to the speakers being upside-down, I figure we're right side-up and everyone else is upside-down. After all don't we have the tweeters on top? Isn't that in line with conventional wisdom? If not, I think I have my SDAs upside-down. :eek:

With regard to the badge its been a long time since I mounted them and my memory isn't what it used to be. If I recall correctly they're mounted firmly on two posts that pull straight out and then can be reinserted. I'll try checking again when I get home.

Larry

DarqueKnight

My CS400i center has been replaced with a modified SDA CRS+. right channel speaker. It has the same tweeter and woofers as my fronts and surrounds (SDA 1C's). With the CRS+, I don't hear a timbre change when sounds move from the center to one of the fronts. The disjointed sound of the CS400i/SDA 1C's combination has been replaced with a solid well-integrated wall of sound in front of me. Contrary to what Polk says on the website, their current line of HT speakers does not mate well with SDA's, at least not with my SDA's. If I ever decide to go the 6.1 route, I'll modify the left CRS+ and use it as a rear center.

The only bad thing about doing the above was that now I have to put my RT55i's back in my home office system (until I find another pair of CRS+).

Pics are in the system showcase.

mikemokr

Originally posted by raife1
Contrary to what Polk says on the website, their current line of HT speakers does not mate well with SDA's, at least not with my SDA's.

Interesting. Two questions -- what in your opinion might mate well with a pair of Monitor 7Cs, and how/why did you modify the CRS+ for the center? (I see from the showcase that you've modified a lot of your speakers.)

DarqueKnight

Mikemokr,


The Monitor 7c came in two flavors, one with the SL2000 tweeter and the other with the SL1000 tweeter. I really can't say what might go well with the SL1000 version. For the version that uses the SL2000 tweeter and the MW 6502 driver, the CRS+ might make a good match. But then, the CS400i might work also. It depends on how sensitive your ears are at higher frequencies.

I modified the CRS+ so that it would blend in better with my SDA 1C's. The CRS+ (pin/blade SDA cable connector) version uses the SL2000 tweeter, the MW 6510 driver for the stereo driver, and the MW 6511 for the dimensional driver.

The SDA 1C uses the SL2000 tweeter, the MW 6511 driver for the stereo driver, and the MW 6510 for the dimensional driver.

I took the MW 6511 driver from the left speaker and wired it in series with the MW 6511 driver of the right speaker on the stereo driver circuit of the right speaker's crossover. This gave a DC resistance of 8 ohms for the speaker. wiring the drivers in parallel gave a DC resistance of 3.7 ohms. I was concerned about the impedance dropping too low in the parallel configuration, therefore the drivers were wired in parallel. I also switched out the binding posts and capacitors in the crossover network to match the components used in the 1C's.

I really didn't want to sacrifice my CRS+'s like this, but the timber change when sounds shifted from the center to the left or right got increasingly annoying over time.

I did this mod just this month (Jan '02). The showcase pics were taken while I still had the CS400i in the system.

goingganzo

larry what would you rate your theater as a 8.1 setup i have a 7.1 setup and i have theater seating allmost i will be done this weekend and i get my tv on feb 2 i have the onkyo787 and a 2 chanel amp i have 4 fx 500i and 800i for mains and 400i for center and a bult in sub 12 inch boy your wireing is realey weird and complex i am a tech but the diagram was good but you can just use a symbol for your speakers

Larry Chanin

Hi goingganzo:

Before I answer your question about how I classify my system, I hope you'll indulge me in a slight rant.

The way the manufacturers label their equipment today is both inconsistent and misleading. So it’s no surprise when we home theater enthusiasts start to classify our configurations it can be very confusing.

As you probably are aware there is only one commercially available system today that truly decodes 6 discrete channels, DTS ES discrete. All other processing is matrixed, including Lexicon's excellent Logic 7 "7.1" processing. So technically, even Surround EX isn’t 6.1, it’s really 5.1 with a matrixed 6th channel. To add to the confusion most manufacturers use the term 7.1 to mean that they have 7 channels of amplification, even if their receivers or preamp/processors only handle 5.1 discrete channels with a 6th matrixed channel.

So, to accurately classify my system: I have 8 speakers, 2 sub woofers and 2 tactile transducers. The system handles 5.1 discrete channels with a 6th matrixed channel. The 6th mono channel is split between three back surround speakers.

With regard to my weird wiring diagram: Part of the complexity stems from my desire to prolong the life of my old receiver while still taking advantage of current developments in home theater. For instance, my receiver is an excellent, but old Pro Logic. To upgrade my system to Dolby Digital I added the Vantas surround adapter. To take advantage of Surround EX I added the SMART Center-Surround Decoder. To add infra sonics to my bass, I added two more amplifiers and two tactile transducers. All those extra boxes have to be wired to one an other and the wiring can get complex or “weird” depending on your perspective. If you think this is weird, I haven’t even tried to show how the wiring from the home theater PC, video switcher and high definition receiver is connected to everything else!

Larry

presidan

Hehe, thanks for all the help guys !!!
Nice set up larry !

Larry Chanin

presidan:

Thanks!

Larry