Pre to Amp. XLR or RCA, Which is better?

audioluvr
audioluvr Posts: 5,601
in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
Noob here to balanced inputs. Now that I have amps and pre with XLR connections I would like to know if I can expect any noticable improvement. I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

Thoughts?
Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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Comments

  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    edited April 2018
    Generally it depends on the way that the balanced connectors are integrated, and if it is a truly balanced design.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,554
    YES to ^^^^^
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,981
    agreed, just because a piece has balanced connections, doesn't make it a completely balanced circuit.

    As always, try for yourself and find out, but...I might opt for some better cables than those AR's.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    How am I supposed to know if it is"truly balanced" then? Tony, if you think the cables I have need upgraded, where should I start? What's a good compromise between budget (say $100) and quality?

    Thanks all!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Try out some inexpensive XLR cables from Monoprice and see what you think of the sound of the balanced connection. Probably the cheapest way to proceed.

    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4754
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    Ok. Ordered some from Monoprice. I also have another set of RCA' s I found. No name on them but they look like good quality and appear shielded. I'll give them a try too
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Cool. Interested to hear your thoughts. I use those XLR cables to hook up my powered monitors! :)
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Ok. Ordered some from Monoprice. I also have another set of RCA' s I found. No name on them but they look like good quality and appear shielded. I'll give them a try too

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    So I hooked up the name cables and either it's the placebo effect or the high frequencies have just been turned up a notch! Can't wait to see what new XLR's will do!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,554
    So you go from AR to Monoprice seems a sideways move to me. I wouldn't buy monoprice anything. We use them at work and the failure rate is very high.
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    I dont think he went sideways, I think he got some Monoprice XLR's. If that is in fact sideways I'll be a onkeys muncle
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    Also Audio Advisor's has some Pangea's they just started selling

    http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGIXCA
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,806
    edited April 2018
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,554
    edited April 2018
    gmcman wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.

    That is not a problem with XLR. They lock in and use a ground pin unlike RCA
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    gmcman wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.

    Yes they are quite tight. I twist them as I take them on and off
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,534
    I use these between my Oppo 205 & Parasound P5. They are nice & won't break the bank.

    cullencable.com/copper-series-xlr/
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Nice suggestion and possible upgrade path if he likes the sound of the XLR connection with the Monoprice wires.
    DaveHo wrote: »
    I use these between my Oppo 205 & Parasound P5. They are nice & won't break the bank.

    cullencable.com/copper-series-xlr/

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    DaveHo wrote: »
    I use these between my Oppo 205 & Parasound P5. They are nice & won't break the bank.

    cullencable.com/copper-series-xlr/

    Thanks Dave! That's perfect! Just under budget too!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,988
    edited April 2018
    tonyb wrote: »
    agreed, just because [your equipment] has balanced connections, doesn't make it a completely balanced circuit.
    this refers to your gear, not the cables
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,988
    edited April 2018
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    We use them at work and the failure rate is very high.
    is “them” XLR cables?

    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,554
    edited April 2018
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    We use them at work and the failure rate is very high.
    is “them” XLR cables?

    Monoprice interconnects in general. HDMI, RCA but no XLR stuff.

    gp4jesus wrote: »
    tonyb wrote: »
    agreed, just because [your equipment] has balanced connections, doesn't make it a completely balanced circuit.
    this refers to your gear, not the cables

    Yes not all gear with balanced inputs/outputs is a balanced topology inside.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    How'd it go with the Monoprice XLRs?
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Ok. Ordered some from Monoprice. I also have another set of RCA' s I found. No name on them but they look like good quality and appear shielded. I'll give them a try too

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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,601
    I could not tell the difference between the XLR's and the RCA's I have. Could just be my poor old ears have finally hit their sonic limit.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Perhaps. Or it's possible that the way the XLR connectors are implemented on the B&K amps aren't dramatically different/better than the RCAs.

    Another possibility is that the Monoprice cables are "not good". But you didn't mention that they detracted or took anything away from the sound.
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I could not tell the difference between the XLR's and the RCA's I have. Could just be my poor old ears have finally hit their sonic limit.

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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,142
    On my gear I have a choice of either xlr and rca connections. The specs show there's 4db better s/n using the xlr's. With that and a more solid connection with the xlr's I use balanced where ever I can.
    Does it make a difference in the sound? Nothing startling that jumps out at me. The biggest change I've noticed is a quieter background. It seems like a no-brainer to me to use the xlr's and I'll gladly take that 4db difference for just a simple cable swap.
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  • gmcman
    gmcman Posts: 1,806
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    gmcman wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I am currently using a good set of "Acoustic Research Pro series directional balanced line audio cables".

    Thoughts?

    I used those once, until they removed an outer shield of one of my board mounted RCA terminals.

    If those have a tight grip also I would use them carefully.

    That is not a problem with XLR. They lock in and use a ground pin unlike RCA

    Correct, I mis-read his post and was referring to the un-balanced AR RCA's which had a death grip on the ones I used once before.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,894
    balanced interconnects can cancel out common-mode noise and (of course) are also shielded.

    http://www.rane.com/note110.html
    http://www.rane.com/note151.html
    http://web.mit.edu/jhawk/tmp/p/EST016_Ground_Loops_handout.pdf
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    I have been very happy with how my Signal Cable analog 2 XLR's compared to my former Hero WBT RCA's. SC's = $59, Hero's = $329! I run them from my Benchmark DAC2 to my Parasound A21 amp.

    icw7zwiw4s0a.jpg


    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • helipilotdoug
    helipilotdoug Posts: 1,229
    If you are looking for a great bang for the buck balanced interconnect cables, please take a look at our Bravo XLR IC's with Vampire Wire XLRF and XLRM connectors. At $139 for a 3 ft. pair, I'll just about put them up against anything else out there. Of course Polkies get a 10% discount too :)
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's
    http://www.douglasconnection.com
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  • rburgess714
    rburgess714 Posts: 616
    helipilotdoug wrote: »
    If you are looking for a great bang for the buck balanced interconnect cables, please take a look at our Bravo XLR IC's with Vampire Wire XLRF and XLRM connectors. At $139 for a 3 ft. pair, I'll just about put them up against anything else out there. Of course Polkies get a 10% discount too :)

    Hey Doug - I received mine today and they look great and sound even better.
    Living Room
    Parasound HINT 6, Yamaha Aventage RX-A 1060, Oppo 103D, Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, KLH Model 5s, Polk CSi A6, Samsung 65" LED

    Office
    Yamaha A-S501, Auralic Aries Mini, LSiM 703s

    Douglas Connection ICs and Cables
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  • helipilotdoug
    helipilotdoug Posts: 1,229
    rburgess714 wrote: »
    helipilotdoug wrote: »
    If you are looking for a great bang for the buck balanced interconnect cables, please take a look at our Bravo XLR IC's with Vampire Wire XLRF and XLRM connectors. At $139 for a 3 ft. pair, I'll just about put them up against anything else out there. Of course Polkies get a 10% discount too :)

    Hey Doug - I received mine today and they look great and sound even better.
    Thanks Ray. Glad to hear they arrived and you are a happy camper. :)
    Sunfire Theater Grand IV
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature
    SRS 2.1TL
    SDA 2BTL's
    CSiA6
    FXiA4
    FXiA6
    SDA 2A's
    Monitor 10A's
    http://www.douglasconnection.com
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