What’s wrong with monster cables?

mlistens03

mlistens03 wrote: »

And one more question (sorry, this is a long post) what is wrong with the 16agw monster cable? It is pure copper, and I’ve used it for a while now, and I haven’t noticed any difference in sound when I started using the monoprice cable.

A while back I was told that my monster cable wasn’t useful to me for my sound system, and that I shouldn’t use it. Now I’m not saying that you were wrong Tonyb, I just would like to know. I know these cables probably were extremely overpriced new, but I had about a 100 feet of this cable given to me a while back so I would appreciate anyone helping me to understand what’s wrong with it.
Thanks,
Micah

mdaudioguy

There's nothing wrong with it, if you're satisfied with it.

cfrizz

There isn't anything wrong with it per se, it's just that Monster got itself a bad rep by suing ANYONE that dared to use Monster in the naming of their products. Even if said product had nothing to do with cables. Monster claimed they owned the name monster, so they would sue Monster Dry Cleaning demanding payment for using Monster in their name.

It was because of this foolishness, that led other companies to create their own cables, and usually charge significantly less, and possibly made better.

The internet spread the word far and wide about this crap, hence a whole new industry was born!

mlistens03

ok, so they just aren’t liked much? Lol. Well, I haven’t used it anyway, but I might as well hold onto it, as it probably will come in handy in the future (never can have to many cables, right?)
If I had super high end cables, I probably would get rid of it, but, since I don’t, I’ll keep it. I mean, the only other cables I’ve got is the monoprice that is in my system already and some 22 agw (where did I even get 22 agw? )

Clipdat

A lot of their core products which got them popular initially, like the various bare wire speaker cables, are just fine. They're just basic cables made with better materials than the stuff you would find at Radio Shack.

In terms of their interconnects, I think they pretty much pioneered the "Monster death grip" RCA plugs with the spiral cut connectors. They were known for ripping the grounding ring right off of RCA jacks upon trying to get them unplugged.

I have a few of their older style RCA interconnect pairs that have "standard" connectors and they're very nice and easy to plug and unplug.

But in general if I had to sum up Monster's stuff I would say that it's priced too high for the performance it offers. You're mostly paying for their name, that they "worked so hard" to protect.

Lastly, I had an RCA to 3.5mm cable from them that was wired wrong from the factory. L and R was reversed! Strange!

F1nut

mlistens03 wrote: »

mlistens03 wrote: »

And one more question (sorry, this is a long post) what is wrong with the 16agw monster cable? It is pure copper, and I’ve used it for a while now, and I haven’t noticed any difference in sound when I started using the monoprice cable.

A while back I was told that my monster cable wasn’t useful to me for my sound system, and that I shouldn’t use it. Now I’m not saying that you were wrong Tonyb, I just would like to know. I know these cables probably were extremely overpriced new, but I had about a 100 feet of this cable given to me a while back so I would appreciate anyone helping me to understand what’s wrong with it.
Thanks,
Micah

Speaking from personal experience, it doesn't sound good. In addition, the copper in the clear jacketed version turns green after a while......not good either.

You're not going to notice a difference between basic 16 gauge stranded copper cables. Once you get beyond basic cable is when the differences become apparent.

mlistens03

I use one of their rca cables to connect to my amplifier, and I can agree that it feels like it’s gonna break as you try to pull it off.
The cable that I have is some that my dad bought in the early 2000s, clear jacketed, with the plastic strip in the middle, which is super annoying to deal with. They haven’t turned green yet though, and hopefully they never will.
I may not ever get better cables, because I think that my systems will probably never really be good enough to hear the difference. For me, it just needs to be pure copper.

Legender

"Speaking from personal experience, it doesn't sound good. In addition, the copper in the clear jacketed version turns green after a while......not good either."

Plus one on this.... have seen these green speaker wires.

Jstas

The issue with Monster Cable is not whether it works or not.

The issue with Monster Cable is whether it fulfills it's claims and the cost vs. value.

There's a bunch more to cable than just buying better cables. Despite whatever everyone says about differences, they are still governed by physics. That said, there's diminishing returns points (it's a different point for signal, speaker, power, etc types of cables) and it really has nothing to do with how good your system is to be able to hear it. In fact, some of these differences I see claimed in places are so minute that the human ear is incapable of perceiving them. So someone claiming to hear them is full of excrement.

That's not to say that cables don't make a difference. Just saying that some people take it way too far. Especially when exhaustive measurements and testing will often show that something like a $250 set of prepared stereo speaker wires with good, solid connectors and insulation tests exactly the same as a $12500 set of wires.

Should you buy better cables? Certainly. Should you spend a small fortune on them? Probably not.

The thing about Monster Cables, though, is that there is evidence out there that a terminated set of Monster Cable speaker wires tests no better than wires of the same length cut off of a spool of speaker wire yet the terminated set costs 4 times as much for no benefit but looks. Many of the Monster Cable are like that and Monster Cable got very big and very rich by using sub-par materials to make what they purported to be top flight products.

As these tested started coming out and they were getting called out more and more, mere refuting of the testing or questioning the testing method did not work so well anymore. So they took their vast resources and started suing competitors, journalists and even their own customers. Anyone who disparaged Monster Cable in any way or had even an inkling of violating one of their copious amounts of patents of dubious distinction.

Monster Cable basically became a patent troll and raked in more money from settling spurious lawsuits than they ever did peddling their junk.

Sometimes, though, Monster Cable is all that is available in a pinch and you're stuff using it. It works but if you paid full price you probably got gouged on something the equivalent of a roll of, say Power King stock wire and a pack of Dayton terminal ends for twice as much as you would have paid for the Power King wire, Dayton ends and a wire stripper/crimper that you would need to build the wires yourself.

The green wire thing? The green wire thing is good and bad. It's good 'cause at least you know it's copper because that's copper oxide, aka copper rust, aka corrosion. It's a bad thing because the entire point of that plastic jacketing is to keep that corrosion from happening. It doesn't insulate from noise. Amplifier output is often far too strong to be bothered by em noise. However, the green wire means that either the jacket itself is reacting with the copper or it's allowed moisture into the wire in some respect to allow the oxygen to get in there and corrode the conductor.

The corrosion is a problem because it's not conductive or not as conductive as the non-corroded material. What that does is it decreases the cross-sectional area and surface area of the conductor and reduces it's ability to conduct electricity. This effectively reduces the gauge of your wire because it physically restricts it by converting the conducting material into something else. So green wire should just be tossed. The corrosion only gets worse once it starts too because the electrical current running through the wire only forces the corrosion to move down the wire as it makes it easier for the oxygen to bond to the conductor. You don't want it reaching terminals at either end because it can travel into your speakers or gear and then you'll be out more than just a set of cheap speaker wires.

tonyb

mlistens03 wrote: »

I use one of their rca cables to connect to my amplifier, and I can agree that it feels like it’s gonna break as you try to pull it off.
The cable that I have is some that my dad bought in the early 2000s, clear jacketed, with the plastic strip in the middle, which is super annoying to deal with. They haven’t turned green yet though, and hopefully they never will.
I may not ever get better cables, because I think that my systems will probably never really be good enough to hear the difference. For me, it just needs to be pure copper.

To be honest, I have the exact cable in your pic wired for my surrounds. Which is about the only place I'd ever use them.

The reason you didn't hear a difference between monster and monoprice, is because basically they are the same cable, slight differences but basically the same. Monster is overpriced for what you get, as others have said already. Plus they have a death grip many have experienced.

Either brands, to me....will not do justice to your system if good sound is your goal. Too many other brands offer a big step up in sound quality for not much more money. Especially buying the better brands on the used markets, that's where you get a good bang for your buck when it comes to cables. There is more to cables than just being copper wire, do some research.

Good luck to you on your journey.

Hermitism

Jstas wrote: »

The issue with Monster Cable is not whether it works or not.

The issue with Monster Cable is whether it fulfills it's claims and the cost vs. value.

There's a bunch more to cable than just buying better cables. Despite whatever everyone says about differences, they are still governed by physics. That said, there's diminishing returns points (it's a different point for signal, speaker, power, etc types of cables) and it really has nothing to do with how good your system is to be able to hear it. In fact, some of these differences I see claimed in places are so minute that the human ear is incapable of perceiving them. So someone claiming to hear them is full of excrement.

That's not to say that cables don't make a difference. Just saying that some people take it way too far. Especially when exhaustive measurements and testing will often show that something like a $250 set of prepared stereo speaker wires with good, solid connectors and insulation tests exactly the same as a $12500 set of wires.

Should you buy better cables? Certainly. Should you spend a small fortune on them? Probably not.

The thing about Monster Cables, though, is that there is evidence out there that a terminated set of Monster Cable speaker wires tests no better than wires of the same length cut off of a spool of speaker wire yet the terminated set costs 4 times as much for no benefit but looks. Many of the Monster Cable are like that and Monster Cable got very big and very rich by using sub-par materials to make what they purported to be top flight products.

As these tested started coming out and they were getting called out more and more, mere refuting of the testing or questioning the testing method did not work so well anymore. So they took their vast resources and started suing competitors, journalists and even their own customers. Anyone who disparaged Monster Cable in any way or had even an inkling of violating one of their copious amounts of patents of dubious distinction.

Monster Cable basically became a patent troll and raked in more money from settling spurious lawsuits than they ever did peddling their junk.

Sometimes, though, Monster Cable is all that is available in a pinch and you're stuff using it. It works but if you paid full price you probably got gouged on something the equivalent of a roll of, say Power King stock wire and a pack of Dayton terminal ends for twice as much as you would have paid for the Power King wire, Dayton ends and a wire stripper/crimper that you would need to build the wires yourself.

The green wire thing? The green wire thing is good and bad. It's good 'cause at least you know it's copper because that's copper oxide, aka copper rust, aka corrosion. It's a bad thing because the entire point of that plastic jacketing is to keep that corrosion from happening. It doesn't insulate from noise. Amplifier output is often far too strong to be bothered by em noise. However, the green wire means that either the jacket itself is reacting with the copper or it's allowed moisture into the wire in some respect to allow the oxygen to get in there and corrode the conductor.

The corrosion is a problem because it's not conductive or not as conductive as the non-corroded material. What that does is it decreases the cross-sectional area and surface area of the conductor and reduces it's ability to conduct electricity. This effectively reduces the gauge of your wire because it physically restricts it by converting the conducting material into something else. So green wire should just be tossed. The corrosion only gets worse once it starts too because the electrical current running through the wire only forces the corrosion to move down the wire as it makes it easier for the oxygen to bond to the conductor. You don't want it reaching terminals at either end because it can travel into your speakers or gear and then you'll be out more than just a set of cheap speaker wires.

Dude, I don't know what's gotten in to you lately, but between this and your Poly-fil post, you're currently in first AND second place for the post of the year awards. Great stuff! Two prime examples of why I keep coming back to a forum that really aggravates me sometimes. For people like me that aren't the sharpest tools in the shed when it comes to all things audio, posts like that are greatly appreciated.

The Academy Awards give out gold statues called Oscars. Polk should give out green statues called "Polkies", made out of tarnished and corroded copper. Best post, best DIY project, best grammatical correction of the year... I think that would be pretty cool and I'm being completely serious.

verb

I'm glad I popped some popcorn today! Bring it on!

kharp1

mlistens03 wrote: »

I use one of their rca cables to connect to my amplifier, and I can agree that it feels like it’s gonna break as you try to pull it off.
The cable that I have is some that my dad bought in the early 2000s, clear jacketed, with the plastic strip in the middle, which is super annoying to deal with. They haven’t turned green yet though, and hopefully they never will.
I may not ever get better cables, because I think that my systems will probably never really be good enough to hear the difference. For me, it just needs to be pure copper.

What kind of copper? Not all copper is equal.

delkal

I think monster cable copper is OK. Purer than most box store speaker wire. They put some kind of plastic in the center so they could advertise some kind of "dielectric" and differentiating them from lamp cord. That game still works. There are numerous companies that advertise their whiz bang "dielectric" cables. Some even have a battery so this "dielectric" doesn't wear out.

And it does make the cable look bigger so you pay more.

I got a big box of monster cables when I bought a system on craigslist. Still use them, they work......I have some better ones but with this system I can't tell a difference

Will a better cable work better.......probably (but they were free).

mlistens03

Jstas wrote: »

The green wire thing? The green wire thing is good and bad. It's good 'cause at least you know it's copper because that's copper oxide, aka copper rust, aka corrosion. It's a bad thing because the entire point of that plastic jacketing is to keep that corrosion from happening. It doesn't insulate from noise. Amplifier output is often far too strong to be bothered by em noise. However, the green wire means that either the jacket itself is reacting with the copper or it's allowed moisture into the wire in some respect to allow the oxygen to get in there and corrode the conductor.

The corrosion is a problem because it's not conductive or not as conductive as the non-corroded material. What that does is it decreases the cross-sectional area and surface area of the conductor and reduces it's ability to conduct electricity. This effectively reduces the gauge of your wire because it physically restricts it by converting the conducting material into something else. So green wire should just be tossed. The corrosion only gets worse once it starts too because the electrical current running through the wire only forces the corrosion to move down the wire as it makes it easier for the oxygen to bond to the conductor. You don't want it reaching terminals at either end because it can travel into your speakers or gear and then you'll be out more than just a set of cheap speaker wires.

mlistens03 wrote: »

The cable that I have is some that my dad bought in the early 2000s, clear jacketed, with the plastic strip in the middle, which is super annoying to deal with. They haven’t turned green yet though, and hopefully they never will.

Scratch what I said about me not having green cable, I just looked at some of mine, and I can definitely see green. I’m going to go through it all later and pull out the bad cable, and keep the cable that’s still ok.

pitdogg2

Something about that clear polyurethane or whatever jacket material. Every cable I've had that uses it all did the same. Some a lot worse than others.

tonyb

mlistens03 wrote: »

Jstas wrote: »

The green wire thing? The green wire thing is good and bad. It's good 'cause at least you know it's copper because that's copper oxide, aka copper rust, aka corrosion. It's a bad thing because the entire point of that plastic jacketing is to keep that corrosion from happening. It doesn't insulate from noise. Amplifier output is often far too strong to be bothered by em noise. However, the green wire means that either the jacket itself is reacting with the copper or it's allowed moisture into the wire in some respect to allow the oxygen to get in there and corrode the conductor.

The corrosion is a problem because it's not conductive or not as conductive as the non-corroded material. What that does is it decreases the cross-sectional area and surface area of the conductor and reduces it's ability to conduct electricity. This effectively reduces the gauge of your wire because it physically restricts it by converting the conducting material into something else. So green wire should just be tossed. The corrosion only gets worse once it starts too because the electrical current running through the wire only forces the corrosion to move down the wire as it makes it easier for the oxygen to bond to the conductor. You don't want it reaching terminals at either end because it can travel into your speakers or gear and then you'll be out more than just a set of cheap speaker wires.

mlistens03 wrote: »

The cable that I have is some that my dad bought in the early 2000s, clear jacketed, with the plastic strip in the middle, which is super annoying to deal with. They haven’t turned green yet though, and hopefully they never will.

Scratch what I said about me not having green cable, I just looked at some of mine, and I can definitely see green. I’m going to go through it all later and pull out the bad cable, and keep the cable that’s still ok.

If the cable is from the same era, I'd throw it all out. Go to Home Depot and buy a roll of the same cable for like 25 bucks....if that's all you want.

mlistens03

I don’t think That I’ll buy any more monster cable, but if I do ever need more cable (I’m not really using any of these cables, I just have them, and may need them in the future) I will see about buying the best cable I can afford (probably about $50 or so).but at this point I think my money would be better spent on a better receiver or amplifier, not cables. But in the future, when there is nothing left to upgrade (wait... that can happen? ) I will definitely buy cables, or maybe sooner. I don’t know.
Thanks for your help with this guys,
Micah

Jstas

Nah, don't go with the HD stuff.

Parts Express has rolls of speaker wire for less than that. Been making my own cables for years with rolled stock from Parts Express and have yet to have any turn green.

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/hi-fi-speaker-wire/1617

Might have to wait a few days for it, but it's worth it. Easy to work with, doesn't dry out and get all crusty or sticky either.

delkal

Don't forget to look on Ebay for used cables and interconnects. They typically go for about 1/2 to 3/4 off. And as a bonus they are already broken in.

rooftop59

For the cheapest stuff that'll get the job done, go to monoprice. For the cheapest entry-level audiophile stuff, go to blue jeans cable.

mlistens03

Ok, I will. I already have some monoprice that I like, so I may upgrade in the future, but for now I’m fine I’ll check parts express, and eBay, and I’ll look at the blue jeans cable as well. Thanks again for your help guys

pitdogg2

belden at Blue jeans is not too pricey as well.

cfrizz

Here is a thread from way back on Monster suing people.

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/66556/monster-is-at-it-again

Clipdat

Haha, I forgot all about how they went after Blue Jeans.

Everyone should read the letter that Blue Jeans wrote back to them: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/index.htm

cfrizz wrote: »

Here is a thread from way back on Monster suing people.

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/66556/monster-is-at-it-again

mlistens03

I take it they lost? Judging by the fact that you all are laughing. I read probably about half of the thread you posted cfrizz, and monster’s actions look to be a little (a lot) ridiculous.

I like the idea in that post of having Bose and Monster sue each other into bankruptcy, how do we get that going?

Msabot1

Back in the day..Monster was about all there was wasn't it??...I remember some guy posted on here that he used Romex...still haven't gotten around to trying that one....

mlistens03

Do their line level cables have the same issues?

Clipdat

What issue?

mlistens03 wrote: »

Do their line level cables have the same issues?

cfrizz

Monster walked away and decided to leave Kurt alone, since he showed that he wasn't one to mess with and wasn't afraid to take them on!

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=411042&posted=1#post411042

mlistens03

The green cable issue, sorry I should have specified that