Upcoming speakers: Focal vs Martin Logan
Joey_V
Posts: 8,552
So I am looking to replace the gameroom speakers. Currently have BW CM10s2 in there, wife does not like the bass on them and I think I am tired of seeing a black rectangular box whenever I come up the stairs (you see the profile of the speaker from the stairs).
Two speakers I have decided on based on experience and cost are the Focal Kanta 2 in black/blue and the Martin Logan Impression 11a in black/walnut.
Both are similarly priced.
My reservations with the Martin Logan Impressions are 2.
1. It is 28” deep, it’ll stick out perhaps 10” infront if the media console.
2. Lateral response is poor but it could be good at containing the music within the gameroom and prevent spread to other parts of the house.
3. Lack of ability to pull out of the wall might impede rear waves from this dipole, reflections might be too early, potentially smearing the primary sound propagation.
4. Low center of gravity, safe for kids.
5. No drivers to finger poke, good for kids.
Good things I like about the ML:
3. Poor lateral and vertical dispersion may allow me to get away from treating the room.
4. ARC room correction corrects the bass.
5. Predictable sound, you can get good sound without significant electronics.
6. A beauty from profile view.
7. Kids might use the rear cabinet as a seat or a platform to jump.
Pros for the Focal:
2. Never had a focal before, would be a nice challenge to get right.
3. Beryllium plus flax... different combo than I’m used to. Potential for musicality is high with the right equipment.
4. I like the color blue, it’s actually my favorite color.
5. Size is a plus, only 18” deep, would be perfect proportion in the gameroom with the Tv and media console.
6. Large outriggers prevent kids from pulling the speaker down.
Cons for focal:
1. Might need room treatment.
2. Might need tube preamp to tame it.
3. Bass is not room correctable.
4. Another box speaker for me.
5. Good lateral response might cause it to be louder to the rest of the house.
Any thoughts or experience welcome.
Thanks
Two speakers I have decided on based on experience and cost are the Focal Kanta 2 in black/blue and the Martin Logan Impression 11a in black/walnut.
Both are similarly priced.
My reservations with the Martin Logan Impressions are 2.
1. It is 28” deep, it’ll stick out perhaps 10” infront if the media console.
2. Lateral response is poor but it could be good at containing the music within the gameroom and prevent spread to other parts of the house.
3. Lack of ability to pull out of the wall might impede rear waves from this dipole, reflections might be too early, potentially smearing the primary sound propagation.
4. Low center of gravity, safe for kids.
5. No drivers to finger poke, good for kids.
Good things I like about the ML:
3. Poor lateral and vertical dispersion may allow me to get away from treating the room.
4. ARC room correction corrects the bass.
5. Predictable sound, you can get good sound without significant electronics.
6. A beauty from profile view.
7. Kids might use the rear cabinet as a seat or a platform to jump.
Pros for the Focal:
2. Never had a focal before, would be a nice challenge to get right.
3. Beryllium plus flax... different combo than I’m used to. Potential for musicality is high with the right equipment.
4. I like the color blue, it’s actually my favorite color.
5. Size is a plus, only 18” deep, would be perfect proportion in the gameroom with the Tv and media console.
6. Large outriggers prevent kids from pulling the speaker down.
Cons for focal:
1. Might need room treatment.
2. Might need tube preamp to tame it.
3. Bass is not room correctable.
4. Another box speaker for me.
5. Good lateral response might cause it to be louder to the rest of the house.
Any thoughts or experience welcome.
Thanks
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
Comments
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Focals strictly for the color/looks.
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I do like the blade profile of the ML, not sure I want to stare at a large rectangular screen.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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I mean from straight, you see the black perforated stat panelsMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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You have experience with ML Joey, so you know what to expect. Of the 2 choices, I'd pick the Focals but I have to ask......Kids room, why such expensive speakers ? They will eventually get destroyed. Especially stats....with kids crayons and such poking holes in things.
If looks are a priority over the conventional big black box types, Maybe consider Salk speakers. Jim has great finishes. I like the HT3 models though I'm not sure he still makes them.
If your going to spend close to the 10k region, Legacy Aires has a cool design and can be found for around 10-11 k on the demo market. Great for HT too and you'd probably wouldn't need a subwoofer either in the kids room for movies.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
For a kid’s playroom, neither. In ceiling speakers would be a much better idea. Safer, sound radiates down into the room, less expensive, no floor space lost, etc.
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I agree with both being bad choices for a mostly kids play area. There are many other options that would be wiser, more cost effective than the two you've mentioned. The scenario you present seems to be one full of potential risks and heart aches. Go pre owned and pocket the difference for when the kids are older and less apt to cause damage.
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Good points Emlyn and Tony.
I suppose in ceilings would work, I have it wired for 5.1. I guess I'm finding myself more and more in the room than I expected.
Re the cost, they are not 10. 5700 and 6500 respectively. The CM10S2 will net probably 2K so it's looking like a 4K swing. The equipment I am selling from the "estate sale" will probably net me $2-3K, so it'll be a near wash.
I do like the blue Focal because it looks different.
I like the ML because it's a known quantity.
Thanks for the opinions -Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I agree with both being bad choices for a mostly kids play area. There are many other options that would be wiser, more cost effective than the two you've mentioned. The scenario you present seems to be one full of potential risks and heart aches. Go pre owned and pocket the difference for when the kids are older and less apt to cause damage.
Seems like the kids have been pretty good with the equipment, no one has injured or been injured by the CM10s2.... though I have noticed Henry eyeing the drivers....
Only thing I see with the Kanta 2, the outriggers up front are a little forwards, it might be a trip hazard... shoot. I would have to get some foam covers for the mean time.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
May want to think about these in-wall/in-ceilingfrom Focal:
https://www.focal.com/us/custom-commercial-integration/300-series/300-icw-8
https://www.focal.com/us/custom-commercial-integration/300-series/300-icw-4
They use the latest driver materials. -
May want to think about these in-wall/in-ceilingfrom Focal:
https://www.focal.com/us/custom-commercial-integration/300-series/300-icw-8
https://www.focal.com/us/custom-commercial-integration/300-series/300-icw-4
They use the latest driver materials.
That looks good too. Another option I guess is get a bigger TV and larger media console since no speakers and then get inceilings.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Found a pic on the internet, I think this is how much the ML will stick out....
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Focal is my vote... those ML are just not aesthetically appealing to me. For sound... I got no clue, but would love to find out.Music: Oppo103 - Parasound JC2 - Parasound A21- SDA 3.1
Theater: Denon 3808 - B&K 7500/Emotiva XPA-3- RTi12, CSi5, RTiA7x4, PSW505
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Spares: Yamaha CA-810; LSi 15; Kenwood Basic M2a, Yamaha M60/M80, Polk Monitor 7, SVS SB13 Ultra -
I guess the deep box design of the ML is a positive to a degree given that it prevents users from putting the speakers too close to the front wall. They need room to breathe. The setup in the photo above is still definitely not optimal for them!
If floorstanders, the Focal would be my choice too. I have always considered the ML as being a "one person" at a time listening experience and mostly just for two channel music. -
Have you heard these two speakers? They are very different in their philosophy and therefore their sound. They both will image well but an electrostat will have more air. By this I mean, being a dipole it has a more open airy sound and depth.. The sound stage is bigger with the reflections coming off the back wall. I like electrotats, because I love horns and electrostats come closer to a horn sound than a traditional box speaker. Nothing wrong with the Focals, it is a personal taste thing. You won't go wrong with either.
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Have you heard these two speakers? They are very different in their philosophy and therefore their sound. They both will image well but an electrostat will have more air. By this I mean, being a dipole it has a more open airy sound and depth.. The sound stage is bigger with the reflections coming off the back wall. I like electrotats, because I love horns and electrostats come closer to a horn sound than a traditional box speaker. Nothing wrong with the Focals, it is a personal taste thing. You won't go wrong with either.
Heard both, not side by side. My only worry with the ML is that it needs some distance (which is a premium for me) from the rear wall to allow for appropriate 2nd wave reflection otherwise there is perceived smear.
Those are prodigys on your picture.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Focal is my vote... those ML are just not aesthetically appealing to me. For sound... I got no clue, but would love to find out.
Legender, I would agree. The wife mentioned to me last night.... "I dont want anything sticking out"
I pulled the CM10s2 out to where the front of the ML would be, she said it looked "weird".
Because this is not in my cave... I worry about the power of the veto if I buy the ML.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Dump the ML idea....those stat panels will live a short life in a kids room. Doesn't take much either.
You like the blue....go with the Focals, but the other ideas of in-ceiling/in walls are probably the best option in a kids room....imho anyway. Safety first....
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Get the Carver speakers that go all the way to the ceiling. It'll give the kids something to climb.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Heard both, not side by side. My only worry with the ML is that it needs some distance (which is a premium for me) from the rear wall to allow for appropriate 2nd wave reflection otherwise there is perceived smear.
Those are prodigys on your picture.
If you have space constraints, the Focal will be the better choice.
Yes, those are Martin Logan Prodigy. These were replaced by the Klipsch Julibee horns. They spent some time in my dining room before being shipped off to South Carolina. Before the Prodigy's, I had Martin Logan CLS for about 10 years.
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Get the Carver speakers that go all the way to the ceiling. It'll give the kids something to climb.
Funny manMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Heard both, not side by side. My only worry with the ML is that it needs some distance (which is a premium for me) from the rear wall to allow for appropriate 2nd wave reflection otherwise there is perceived smear.
Those are prodigys on your picture.
If you have space constraints, the Focal will be the better choice.
Yes, those are Martin Logan Prodigy. These were replaced by the Klipsch Julibee horns. They spent some time in my dining room before being shipped off to South Carolina. Before the Prodigy's, I had Martin Logan CLS for about 10 years.
Large and in charge. Never heard them or seen them in person. I saw the Oddysey-i and that was the first ML I heard prior to me owning the Vantage then the Summit. Good stuff.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
They spent some time in my dining room before being shipped off to South Carolina. Before the Prodigy's, I had Martin Logan CLS for about 10 years.
I've been wondering for years now why my dining room is still a dining room! The thought has crossed my mind more than a few times that it could be re-purposed seeing as no meal has been served in that room for several years now.
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What about something like the Totem Forest Signatures?
Non obtrusive, easy to place and does not need top end equipment to sound great. -
I'd also recommend the in ceiling speakers for a kids room. Put the money you save into a savings account for a future audio purchase.Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10 -
I'd also recommend the in ceiling speakers for a kids room. Put the money you save into a savings account for a future audio purchase.
The risk for Joey is if he finds out how good the Focal in-ceiling speakers sound he may get the urge to do the whole house with them.
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Ha ha....those ML's look like they should have a tail and floppy ears.2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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dragon1952 wrote: »Ha ha....those ML's look like they should have a tail and floppy ears.
Yeah... the butt is so large..Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I have the ML's in my bathroom and I love how they sound!Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
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