LSiM 705 stereo amp advice

mjk2326

I just pulled the trigger on a pair of LSiM 705's for a stereo setup, strictly for music. I'm relatively new to the higher end audiophile stuff and have only messed around with very basic receivers and speakers up to this point. I'm trying to decide what kind of amp I should buy to drive these. I don't mind buying used, and I'd like to stick to below $1000 if possible, but I wouldn't mind paying a bit more if there were something that was truly worth it. I don't need it to get really loud, but I'd love good quality sound at medium listening levels.

I have an old Pioneer VSX-D912 receiver laying around, but it sounds like I really want a separate amp to get the most out of these speakers. From what I've read, it sounds like Parasound amps are highly recommended with the LSiM line.

I have a few questions:

1. It looks like used Parasound A23's and 2250v2's are in my price range. I see that the A23 is higher quality but only has 120W @ 8ohms, whereas the 2250v2 has 275W. Which would I be better off with? Is 120W too low for the LSiM 705's? Keep in mind I don't plan to crank these way up. Or would the 2250's sound better because they are more powerful, despite being "lower end"? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how much the amount of power matters vs the quality of the power here.

2. I'm mostly interested in the Parasound amps just because I've read that they are warm and pair well with the LSiM's. Are there any others I should consider that might work better for my price point? I've read that Emotiva amps are bright, and after a bad experience with some Klipsch speakers I'm inclined to steer away from bright amps. Or maybe the LSiM's are warm enough that an Emotiva would pair ok with them?

3. I've read about some smaller integrated amps that get great reviews, although they are much lower power, such as the Dayens Menuetto (50W) and the Bel Canto c5i (60W). I've read that the quality of the power matters more than how much power you have, but would small amps like these be enough to drive my LSiM's? I read a review that said that the Menuetto in particular was great with LSiM703's, which surprised me because I thought the whole LSiM line was power hungry.

4. I was thinking of just using the pre-amp outs on my Pioneer VSX-D912 if I bought a separate amplifier. How much does the quality of the pre-amp matter? Would I get significantly improved sound going with a dedicated pre-amp made specifically for stereo music? I assume that the amplifier matters more than the pre-amp.

Sorry if these are pretty basic questions, but I'd love advice from the experts here!

Upstatemax

For your price point and speaker, save the $$ and grab a Parasound HCA-1500A.

As for the Pre-Amp, it matters. A lot.

F1nut

The LSiM's are an easy load.

Clipdat

Great questions! My answers/comments/opinions in bold below:

mjk2326 wrote: »

1. It looks like used Parasound A23's and 2250v2's are in my price range. I see that the A23 is higher quality but only has 120W @ 8ohms, whereas the 2250v2 has 275W. Which would I be better off with? Is 120W too low for the LSiM 705's? Keep in mind I don't plan to crank these way up. Or would the 2250's sound better because they are more powerful, despite being "lower end"? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how much the amount of power matters vs the quality of the power here.

Between these two I'd go for the A23, as I've been understanding more lately how quality of power matters over quantity, especially as you say for low to medium listening levels. You don't need 275wpc even if you factor in dynamic headroom for sudden transients.

2. I'm mostly interested in the Parasound amps just because I've read that they are warm and pair well with the LSiM's. Are there any others I should consider that might work better for my price point? I've read that Emotiva amps are bright, and after a bad experience with some Klipsch speakers I'm inclined to steer away from bright amps. Or maybe the LSiM's are warm enough that an Emotiva would pair ok with them?

What was your bad experience with Klipsch speakers? I'm curious as I like their stuff. <-- That right there is a great example of why it's hard for us to choose an amplifier for you, everyone's preference in sound is personal.

AudioAdvisor and Emotiva both offer 30 day in home trials. You'll have to pay return shipping on the one you decide not to keep, but it would allow you to directly compare Parasound to Emotiva in your own listening room.

3. I've read about some smaller integrated amps that get great reviews, although they are much lower power, such as the Dayens Menuetto (50W) and the Bel Canto c5i (60W). I've read that the quality of the power matters more than how much power you have, but would small amps like these be enough to drive my LSiM's? I read a review that said that the Menuetto in particular was great with LSiM703's, which surprised me because I thought the whole LSiM line was power hungry.

I'm actually going down this same road currently with my 703s. Currently they're on 40wpc and don't seem to be hungry for more power. I also recently tried them on 125wpc and soon will be trying them on 60wpc.

As I mentioned above, I would agree that quality of power/watts matters more over total quantity of power/watts.

5. I was thinking of just using the pre-amp outs on my Pioneer VSX-D912 if I bought a separate amplifier. How much does the quality of the pre-amp matter? Would I get significantly improved sound going with a dedicated pre-amp made specifically for stereo music? I assume that the amplifier matters more than the pre-amp.

Most AVRs include a "Source Direct" or "Pure Stereo" or other equivalent means for passing the signal through with as little processing as possible.

That being said, I wouldn't personally ever use an AVR as a dedicated preamp in a 2 channel rig. They're just not designed for critical listening and audio quality, the way a dedicated stereo preamp would be.

If you can extend your budget for a nice stereo preamp, you should strongly consider it. Assuming you don't need a phono stage, there are some "inexpensive" units available from Schiit Audio.

mjk2326

First of all, thank you all so much for the advice! It really helped! Without your advice, I probably would have gone with a more powerful amp, but instead I went with the A23 which is great and more than enough power.

So I got my Polk LSiM's and ended up buying a Parasound A23 and P3 pre-amplifier that I found for a good deal on eBay.

I tried listening with combinations of the pre-amp, amp, and my old Pioneer receiver, and I've actually found that I prefer the sound using my receiver as a pre-amp hooked up to the A23. The P3 pre-amplifier certainly has a better soundstage than the Pioneer, but the mixing sounds really messed up, like the highs are extremely muffled and even the lows sound a little muddy. I have the Pioneer set in direct stereo mode using it as a pre-amp, and it has a great balanced tone, although the soundstage is not as great.

I messed around with the tone controls on the P3 to try to correct it. Increasing the treble helped a bit, but I still couldn't get it to sound as good as the Pioneer. Maybe the P3 is just not a great pre-amp or a bad combination with what I have or it's just my taste, but I'm surprised it couldn't beat out the Pioneer.

Eventually, I would like to get a pre-amp with a better soundstage that has a more balanced tone like the Pioneer. Any recommendations for something on the cheaper side of things (sub $400)? How are passive pre-amps? I guess they don't have any amplification at all -- what would the drawback to that be? I guess there wouldn't be any coloring to the sound at all from the pre-amp, but that just sounds like a good thing to me. Someone in my area has an Emotiva pre-amp for cheap on Craigslist. I know this is all subjective, and listening to something is the only way to know what I really like, but I just thought I'd seek out any advice anyone might have to know what to look for.

Thanks again for all the great advice!

mjk2326

Clipdat, my experience with Klipsch was with some RF82 II's I picked up last year on sale at Fry's. I liked many things about them -- the bass was superb and they were really dynamic and fun to listen to. But I found that while they sounded impressive when I first turned them on - even moreso than my new much more expensive Polks - they were fatiguing after listening to them for any extended period. I think it was just too bright, which is a common complaint I hear about. Although another factor is my living room has wood floors and probably just amplified the brightness, and they probably would have sounded great to me in a different room.

With my new LSiM's, they actually sounded too laid back when I tried them in my carpeted bedroom, and I'm very pleased with how the brightness of my living room brings them out a bit. It's a great combination for me.

Polk Fan AJ

Can I add another related question to this thread? Like MJK, I'm looking for a dedicated amp to power my LSiM 705 fronts in a 5.1 surround system. I have both space (height) and weight restrictions in my AV furniture that limit my choices. Its down to the Parasound A23 and the Emotiva A5175. The 5175 gives me several options - among them: 1) only use 2 of the 5 channels (rated at 175 wpc @ 8, 250wpc@4ohms), 2) use 4 channels and passively bi-amp the 705s (rated at 125wpc into 8 ohms at <0.1THD driving all 5 channels). Anyone have any advice on 2-channel Parasound A23 vs passive bi-amping (or just using 2 channels with more grunt) with the Emotiva 5175? Thanks!

Clipdat

@F1nut we got an Emotiva question over here!

mjk2326

For posterity, I actually ended up ditching the Parasound gear in favor of a Jolida 1501 hybrid integrated. The Parasound was smooth and clear, but it was missing some excitement. The Jolida has an oomph that gets me going.

halo

Jolida makes very nice gear. They are changing their name to Black Ice though