Twisted Pear Releases ES Sabre 9028/9038 DAC Boards

SCompRacer

I still enjoy the DIY Twisted Pear Buffalo III ES Sabre 9018 DAC I built in 2012 immensely, but it’s time to move on and up. I was considering buying a DAC with the new ES Sabre chip however Twisted Pear finally, after a year and a half, released their ES Sabre 9028/9038 DAC boards. The 9028 is a simpler stereo DAC while the 9038 can be made into an 8 channel DAC or summed for two channel stereo.

I like Twisted Pear for many reasons. They make every DAC chip setting available so you can optimize the DAC for your application. They strive to optimize each performance area of the DAC for maximum sound quality by using high quality voltage regulation. There are four regulators that attach to the DAC board. They make high quality I/V output boards and power supplies. Their stuff sounds good.



I pre-ordered a 9028 as it can be used with the previous TP I/V output boards. The 9028 has a higher current output than the 9018 chip, while the 9038 has four times the current output so it requires a new I/V board that can handle the high current. The new output board soon to be released is called Mercury, and it will work with the 9028. I’ll get one of those too.




Per Russ White of TP…

“There is a lot of greatness in these two new chips. First the over-sampling filters and IIR filter are much improved over the ES9018 - and I am not overstating this - you will absolutely hear the difference between the various filters and you can select the one that work the best for your particular application or taste. The new DACs have the following filters:”

8X FIR filters:
• Brickwall
• Hybrid fast roll-off minimum phase
• Apodizing fast roll-off linear phase
• Slow roll-off minimum phase
• Fast roll-off minimum phase (default)
• Slow roll-off linear phase
• Fast roll-off linear phase

(The 9018 only had two filters, Fast and Slow roll off).

8X IIR filters @ 44.1Khz:
• 1.5874fs - 70K
• 1.3605fs - 60K
• 1.1338fs - 50K
• 1.0757fs - 47.44K(default)


The DAC ships Nov 12. I’ve been working a lot of OT so I’m a dud on weekends. Hopefully this will get me back to the bench. I’ll have to build a new PS for the DAC board as the current power supplies would be maxed out for the 9028. I'm only building a single instead of dual mono in part due to expense and complexity. (The 9028 DAC board costs $459). Maybe, someday...

I’ll also have to build a new Arduino shield for an Arduino Due for control of the 9028 DAC. My current Arduino Uno does not have the memory to run the new software required. Arduino control gets you away from dipswitch settings to on the fly changes via remote control. You can also change inputs via remote.

Fortunately Dimitris Dimitrakoudis in Greece, AKA DimDim (a screen name that doesn’t fit) makes an Arduino shield and wrote code for it. His code is written for a large 3.2” or 4.3” TFT display. A shield is a circuit board and basically means much less wiring to the display it is attached to.






Diyaudio links
TP 9028/9038
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/313476-introducing-buffalo-iii-se-pro-9028-9038-a.html

Diyaudio introducing Mercury

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/314401-introducing-mercury-achieving-escape-velocity.html

DimDim’s blog Arduino control
http://www.dimdim.gr/arduino/tft-hifiduino-pro-project/

agfrost

All hail the return of the solder-slinger!

SCompRacer

Didn't you volunteer to help with this build?

schwarcw

I love to watch the progress on Rich's projects. This one promises to be very interesting. Good luck Rich I know this will take some time to develop. I am looking forward to the pictures from breadboard to everything cased in a custom box with a shiny faceplate.

pitdogg2

schwarcw wrote: »

I love to watch the progress on Rich's projects. This one promises to be very interesting. Good luck Rich I know this will take some time to develop. I am looking forward to the pictures from breadboard to everything cased in a custom box with a shiny faceplate.

So true Carl.

EndersShadow

@SCompRacer

Rich: As with most things you do, I will follow this thread with much excitement, understanding little, if any, of it, yet marveling at the craftsmanship shown through the build...

I swear you and @ALL212 are twins separated at birth as his stuff looks "almost" as good as yours

headrott

Thanks for he heads up Rich. It has been a while since I have checked the TwistedPear website. I will be getting a Buff IIse pro card. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I am also looking to replace my BAT VK200 (heavily modified amp) with a BAT VK-255se amp, which will cost as much as 4,235.00. That is ano small amount for me, but I feel it's time as I have used the VK-200 for about 4 years now. While the VK-200 works absolutely perfectly (and sounds great!), I still feel it's time to move on from it.

agfrost

SCompRacer wrote: »

Didn't you volunteer to help with this build?

If I were just a few miles closer I'd be happy to hang out and soak up whatever knowledge I could.

Heck I've got a couple projects I'd like your advice on...

SCompRacer

headrott wrote: »

While the VK-200 works absolutely perfectly (and sounds great!), I still feel it's time to move on from it.

Well if you got an itch, you have to scratch it! Nice amp upgrade.

I'm still happy with all my present gear. The DAC is the only thing I am interested in upgrading.

Currently I use balanced out with the Legato. I lifted the balanced ground so no common mode DC, no more caps in output stage. That was the only disadvantage to the Legato discrete output, common mode DC between ground and pos balanced, ground and neg balanced. The Krell shuts down with any hint of DC.

SCompRacer

agfrost wrote: »

If I were just a few miles closer I'd be happy to hang out.....

Want me to move closer? lol

SCompRacer

Some progress!

Waiting for my 4.3" TFT screen to see if the DimDim shield works. SMD stuff, owner completion, tiny. U4 is a real SMD ability test. Doesn't help that Jasper got pissed about ignoring him, he chewed up my hot air station hose. Using small iron tip and trusty Hakko FR-300 to remove the blobs/solder shorts. Not much space between chip legs.

I power right and left channels of output board with two Twisted Pear Placid HD BP ver 2.1 power supplies. 15v + and 15v -. Still waiting for the new TP Mercury output stage. I'll start with my trusty discrete balanced out TP Legato.

headrott

Very nice Rich! SMD can be horrid. Glad you are getting it taken care of though.

schwarcw

Looking good Rich! Man those boards are nice! Love the Twisted Pear green LOL!

SCompRacer

Hey Carl!

It lives! Talk about simple build, lol. Very happy with SQ upgrade so far, used DAC for sale soon...

Amanero USB input, isolated. Twisted Pear Amanero USB Isolator Module Hermes, Cronus Re-clocking Module stack. uFl cable connection to DAC. 45.1584/49.152MHz Crystek clocks for up to 384Khz PCM input.

More progress on shield/Arduino DUE. Still waiting for tft screen. No smoke from shield on power up, proper voltages at key points. This shield uses I2C (serial control) isolation chips powered by DAC board.

agfrost

Very cool, Rich.

schwarcw

Hey Rich, looking good! The nice green of the "Pear" boards. There are some tiny SMDs on the new blue board. A true craftsman's work!

Is that the Cronus stack that we tried to fit in my DAC?

SCompRacer

schwarcw wrote: »

Hey Rich, looking good! The nice green of the "Pear" boards. There are some tiny SMDs on the new blue board. A true craftsman's work!

Is that the Cronus stack that we tried to fit in my DAC?

I got a lighted magnifier! Makes them SMD parts look like a bus...

Yes, that is the Cronus stack. The issue we had is DAC board was getting power first from shunting supply while the Cronus stack was powered milliseconds later from the 5v linear supply.

I am using the new and improved high amperage dual linear PS from Twisted Pear. One 5v side to DAC board, other 5v to Amanero/Hermes isolator/Cronus stack. Signal locks every time upon power up.

I didn't want to push your 5v shunting any higher and try and power both or we'd have issues, thus the Sonore USB to I2S card. The Amanero/Hermes/Cronus is a very good USB input. Doesn't have 8x oversampling like the Sonore. Your oversampling is switchable off, but it does a better job doing the oversample than the DAC chip and then run DAC in synch with the Sonore clock. It used the same Crystek CCHD series ultra low phase noise clocks.

From Sonore:

"A unique feature of this interface [USB to I2S] is the (optional) onboard OSF. This filter oversamples to 352.8/384, using specially developed proprietary digital filters. The filter design takes advantage of the high power available in the FPGA to incorporate a sophisticated partial minimum phase filter, which greatly reduces pre-ringing, while still providing excellent stop band rejection (anti aliasing). "

IMO that Sonore/8x oversample/synch/ combination got the best SQ out of the 9018 DAC. It had complete isolation from USB side. It is discontinued but some folks still seek them. One of the best USB to I2S cards out there IMO.

SCompRacer

agfrost wrote: »

Very cool, Rich.

Thx Jay! I was hoping you'd volunteer to put the second one together....

pitdogg2

Rich do you solder the surface mount stuff like any other job or is it baked on so to speak?
That some tiny work bro kudos

SCompRacer

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Rich do you solder the surface mount stuff like any other job or is it baked on so to speak?
That some tiny work bro kudos

Thx. I'm no expert but can get it done. A magnifier is a must for me. I have one attached to a clamp tool, also have a lighted one.

You can use hot air work station or fine tip on solder iron. To remove chips with multiple legs a hot air station is the only way to go. There are various tips available for hot air station, like square and rectangular depending on chip you are working with. To install, you can use iron with fine tip.

A solder workstation with adjustable temp is highly recommended. You have to either hold part with tweezers or fab a fixture to hold part down. Vice grips and a toothpick will work. Tack one side or one leg of chip, move to other side and solder, then back to first side.

You want to use small diameter solder, like .020, .025. Some folks use solder paste. Using the fine tip solder iron I find a desolder gun very useful. (I have a Hakko FR-300) It helps to remove large blobs or solder runs between legs of chips. You have to work fast with desolder gun as get the part too hot and it will be removed. Same with iron. Get it too hot, you pull iron away and it's gone, stuck to tip of iron.

Took some time for me to acclimate to SMD parts. There are videos on youtube that are helpful.

schwarcw

SCompRacer wrote: »

From Sonore:

"A unique feature of this interface [USB to I2S] is the (optional) onboard OSF. This filter oversamples to 352.8/384, using specially developed proprietary digital filters. The filter design takes advantage of the high power available in the FPGA to incorporate a sophisticated partial minimum phase filter, which greatly reduces pre-ringing, while still providing excellent stop band rejection (anti aliasing). "

IMO that Sonore/8x oversample/synch/ combination got the best SQ out of the 9018 DAC. It had complete isolation from USB side. It is discontinued but some folks still seek them. One of the best USB to I2S cards out there IMO.

I totally agree! My digital sounds better than I had ever hoped with the upgrades you made with the Sonore card, etc.. I like what I am hearing with the oversample/synch combo.

I am looking forward to your new unit come together.

mrbiron

I can't seem to find the "buy now" button nor the "please make me one" button.

Damn vanilla!

WLDock

Great to see another cool DIY project of yours on here.

ALL212

EndersShadow wrote: »

@SCompRacer

Rich: As with most things you do, I will follow this thread with much excitement, understanding little, if any, of it, yet marveling at the craftsmanship shown through the build...

I swear you and @ALL212 are twins separated at birth as his stuff looks "almost" as good as yours

Almost...ALMOST!!! Challenge accepted, waiting on parts...

SCompRacer

mrbiron wrote: »

I can't seem to find the "buy now" button nor the "please make me one" button.

Damn vanilla!

Make sure I get it working first!

SCompRacer

ALL212 wrote: »

EndersShadow wrote: »

@SCompRacer

Rich: As with most things you do, I will follow this thread with much excitement, understanding little, if any, of it, yet marveling at the craftsmanship shown through the build...

I swear you and @ALL212 are twins separated at birth as his stuff looks "almost" as good as yours

Almost...ALMOST!!! Challenge accepted, waiting on parts...

I thought we had that non-compete agreement thing. We just slap stuff together, hope it works and enjoy it.

And Dan knows more than he is letting on....

Thorton

mrbiron wrote: »

I can't seem to find the "buy now" button nor the "please make me one" button.

Damn vanilla!

Put me on the list too!

EndersShadow

SCompRacer wrote: »

And Dan knows more than he is letting on....

I appreciate the vote of confidence but let’s be honest....

FTGV

Oh no, say it ain't so Rich. My DAC has been rendered obsolete. The 9018 is a great chip but looks like the clever fella's at ESS have raised the bar. I look forward to your build and your impressions of the new DAC board and that new analog stage.

pitdogg2

FTGV wrote: »

Oh no, say it ain't so Rich. My DAC has been rendered obsolete. The 9018 is a great chip but looks like the clever fella's at ESS have raised the bar. I look forward to your build and your impressions of the new DAC board and that new analog stage.

Fred's in the house.
Hello Fred

SCompRacer

FTGV wrote: »

Oh no, say it ain't so Rich. My DAC has been rendered obsolete. The 9018 is a great chip but looks like the clever fella's at ESS have raised the bar. I look forward to your build and your impressions of the new DAC board and that new analog stage.

Hey Fred!

I wouldn't go throwing it away.

Yes, ESS has learned and applied improvements. Russ's Mercury I/V stage is also very impressive. The 9028 is higher current but will work with IVY/Legato output stages. The 9038 has four times the current so it needed a new output stage. The 9038 will be the up to 8 channel offering. Russ claims there isn't that much difference for the complexity you have to deal with. Again, chasing that additional few % or so. I want simpler now.

Check out the Mercury thread in the TP forum at diyaudio. He hasn't released a schematic as of yet. I remarked how impressed I was with it. His response...

"Believe me - this is by design - I have been working on this output stage for more than a year - and it started out discrete... Mercury is essentially Counterpoint but using OPA1632 where I have been using discrete components. It sounds as good as it does - because I was meticulous about designing and testing it... over and over and over.... "

No common mode DC to worry about like with Legato discrete balanced out, barely detectable. I had lifted the ground on my Legato balanced out so I could get rid of the coupling caps and the flavor they bring along with having the corner frequency to figure/deal with. As you'd know, true balanced gear can work with the ground lifted.

At one time he was reluctant to release the Counterpoint as folks would copy it. Now it's in the spirit of diy. Things change...lol I know one look and you'll have it figured out.