Let's Talk Carts and Styli

Inscrutabl0915

kharp1 wrote: »

This is where things might slow down for me, I had some knowledge of tables, have none on this stuff. The learning curve will be a bit steeper.

Here's one of the better concise descriptions.

https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/tonearm-cartridge-compatability/

kharp1

Ok, I think I already know how this vote is going to go, but, I'm going to put this out there. Just as soon as I had decided the PL1000 was the way to go this popped up in my email.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRRPM92&variation=SPGLSGRY&utm_source=Email+Newsletters&utm_campaign=3bbcc6c9db-Project_RPM92_Sale_2017_08_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2d471df912-3bbcc6c9db-77629941&goal=0_2d471df912-3bbcc6c9db-77629941&mc_cid=3bbcc6c9db&mc_eid=f9f18b6af9

So, for about $600 more I can have the RPM-9.2 with the sumiko versus the Pioneer with the same cart. What say you?

Mikey081057

I have a Soundsmith Carmen

Less pricey than the Zephyr very detailed and warm.

[Deleted User]

Does anyone have a Strain gauge setup ?

jdjohn

The Pioneer PL-1000 is a linear/tangential tracker, which eliminates some headaches around cartridge alignment and inner-groove distortion (IGD). @scompracer's DIY turntable (very impressive, btw) is a linear tracker. The Pro-Ject RPM will require careful alignment of the cartridge with a protractor grid whenever you switch it out.

The PL-1000 is fully-auto, so you can just hit start and off it goes, and will auto-return when the record side is done. The Pro-Ject RPM is fully manual, so requires you to drop the needle yourself, and lift it and return when a side is done.

I'm not saying one is better/worse than the other, but wanted to point out these different features. Personally, I would go for the PL-1000 https://www.vinylengine.com/library/pioneer/pl-l1000.shtml

nooshinjohn

I think he is talking about the PLX 1000

mhardy6647

TForan wrote: »

Does anyone have a Strain gauge setup ?

I participate in a small local tube\ hifi group; there's a fellow on it who's drunk the strain-gauge Kool-Aide big time Let me look through the stuff I have and see if I can put a little synopsis together.

mhardy6647

Oh, and as a semi-cogent aside I have a single, old (1970s) MicroAcoustics cartridge here. Their stock in trade was a sort of "hifi" reboot of the venerable "ceramic" (piezoelectric) cartridge technology. I will say that the MA cartridge here gets the midrange very, very right.

MA cart info 1977 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Mikey081057

Hi MC vs Lo MC

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/high-output-mc-cartridges-vs-low-output-any-difference-in-sound.253999/

Dawgfish

I have a Pioneer PL-L1000 and think it's an outstanding deck. The way the arm is advanced on this deck is a much simpler and effective means than the corresponding Sony and Yamaha linear trackers from the era. There are only two main things that are known to go wrong on the 1000, and fortunately they are both easy and readily available fixes. The tonearm lifting belt is known to stretch over time making the tonearm lift inoperative. The belts are readily available on EBAY for about $5 shipped. They can be replaced in about 15-20 minutes.

The only other thing is the 1000 actually has a suspended platter and tonearm which does a great job of isolating unwanted outside vibration and other forces (footfalls, etc.). The way it works is the tonearm and platter are mounted to the bottom piece of a two piece floating plinth design. The bottom plinth is mounted on springs which are in turn mounted on the turntable feet. There is a rubber boot which the suspension springs seat themselves on which often dry root and disintegrate and the suspension becomes inoperative when this happens. There is a gentlemen in Florida which sells neoprene gaskets that replace the oem rubber boots and they work great. They can be had for $20 shipped for all 4 feet and it takes about 20 minutes to do. Also, the rubber boots where used on several Pioneer tables and can be readily found on EBAY if you want to keep it completely original.

As far as cartridges go, I own 31 different carts (soon to be 32) and have tried moving magnet, moving iron, high output moving coil, and low output moving coil cartridges up to the low $2000 range retail on the 1000. To my ears and with my system, a Grace F-9 Ruby sounds the absolute best with the 1000. The short linear tracking arm has a relatively low mass so the 1000 is more compatible with medium to high compliance cartridges. These tend to be in most moving magnet and moving iron cartridge's wheelhouse. Another cart which also sounds outstanding with the 1000 is a Nagaoka MP-500. This is an outstanding cartridge that frankly I couldn't recommend any higher. If you want to run a moving coil cart on the 1000, medium to lower compliance carts work the best on it. I have tried a Denon DL-160, Dynavector DV-10X5, Denon DL-303, Denon DL-103D and 103M, Dynavector Karat 23R, and Shelter 501MK2 on it all with good effect. The only other piece of advice I can offer on the 1000 is it's actually a much larger table than the pictures suggest. It dwarfs the Regas, Music Halls, and most Projects out there and is actually an appreciable bit bigger than the venerable Technics SL-1200. Just make sure you have the shelf or rack space for it. Other than get it and enjoy! It's a keeper, sounds great, and is a joy to use!

Dawgfish

Well Damn, yes I believe the OP was talking about the new Pioneer PLX-1000 which is a Technics SL-1200 clone. I've read good things about that deck, personally though if you found a good deal on the linear tracking PL-L1000 I would definitely go with that. :-)

mhardy6647

I had initially thought so, too -- but the post referred to the PL-1000.
In fact, I'd even written a snarky response (there is a whole subculture of "Hanpin Haters" out there among the vinylista), but then I realized the "ask" was about the PL-1000.

The PL-1000's direct drive, isn't it? I assume that a Japanese company in those days would've only put all of the bells and whistles of the PL-1000 on a DD platform

msg

Me thrice, tambien!

Dawgfish

Yep most definitely direct drive. This discussion just made me break it out and I'm listening to it as I type. It sounds fantastic!

agfrost

Dawgfish wrote: »

Yep most definitely direct drive. This discussion just made me break it out and I'm listening to it as I type. It sounds fantastic!

Nice Clamp.

Dawgfish

Thanks!

dromunds

Dang! That's beeeeeautiful!

Dawgfish

Thanks! Yeah it kind of has an understated beauty to it. I read somewhere where someone compared it's looks to a stealth fighter. I like that description.

jdjohn

Dawgfish, I think you need to clean your camera lense, but yeah, that's a bute! Love that Grace F9 Ruby as well Man, you could set a couple of beers on the right side of the chassis, and still have room left!

Here's my latest toy: Klipsch/Zenn MCZ-2...it has a few battle scars, but sounds great.

Dawgfish

Oh wow! That's sweet! It looks like some of the vintage Linn moving coils that were made by Koetsu. Don't know anything about this cart. How does it sound?

jdjohn

Thanks! They were made by Zenn for Klipsch. This one has an aluminum cantilever, but they had a more expensive version made with boron as well. It has a really low impedance and sounds great. I recently picked up a Dynavector P75MkII phonostage as well, and this MCZ-2 works quite well in the P75's 'phono enhanced' mode; that mode works best with low impedance MC carts.

Here's a pic of the back (I had to fabricate a round spacer for it and obviously use a dime to get the VTF right):

Dawgfish

jdjohn wrote: »

Dawgfish, I think you need to clean your camera lense, but yeah, that's a bute! Love that Grace F9 Ruby as well Man, you could set a couple of beers on the right side of the chassis, and still have room left!

Here's my latest toy: Klipsch/Zenn MCZ-2...it has a few battle scars, but sounds great.

Oh yeah btw, thanks for the tip to clean my lense lol! Here's 2 more with a clean lense:

txcoastal1

I was thinking you took the first pic at 4:20

mhardy6647

txcoastal1 wrote: »

I was thinking you took the first pic at 4:20

I see what you did there...



You know what I say...

It's always 4:20 somewhere. Wait? Wha...?
Umm...

Dawgfish

Oh if only! Lol! I wish my friend, I wish!

mhardy6647

Yeah, both VT and NH have been sort of -- funny -- vis-a-vis that whole issue, relative to ME and MA.

But I digress...

Dawgfish

jdjohn wrote: »

Thanks! They were made by Zenn for Klipsch. This one has an aluminum cantilever, but they had a more expensive version made with boron as well. It has a really low impedance and sounds great. I recently picked up a Dynavector P75MkII phonostage as well, and this MCZ-2 works quite well in the P75's 'phono enhanced' mode; that mode works best with low impedance MC carts.

Here's a pic of the back (I had to fabricate a round spacer for it and obviously use a dime to get the VTF right):

Very cool! I would love to get my ears on one of those. I've heard the P-75 was magic with a low impedance lomc cart with the phono enhancer mode. Nice setup!

mhardy6647

The dime definitely makes that system!

jdjohn

mhardy6647 wrote: »

The dime definitely makes that system!

Yeah, when my wife saw the dime, she yelled, "I sure hope you didn't pay a lot of money for that cartridge if it needs that dime to make it work!" She was quite serious
I only have about 30 more carts to choose from, so I believe she thinks I'm reaching my limit???

mhardy6647

My father said that, in his broadcast days (mid-1950s), the deejays would put "a Zippo lighter" on the head of the tonearm to make sure the record didn't get stuck in a locked groove. Then they could go out and smoke a cigarette (or... whatever) for a few minutes while a song played.

We're talkin' Gray tonearms and VR cartridges, not, y'know, ultra-high compliance cartridges with line-contact styli