Phono Preamps

DaveHo

I'll be one of the lucky to participate in the Vista Audio Phono-2 tour @DSkip is putting together. I'm looking to order in a couple others so I can do a comparison when I receive the Phono-2. My current cart is an Audio Technica 440mla which is on the lower end of output for an MM cart, so I'd like something with adjustable gain. It would also be nice to be able to play with cart loading since the Phono-2 is so versatile in that regard. Probably going to pick-up a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS for the comparison & would like to grab one other.

Does not have to be tube based. Looking for those costing under $500. Needs to be new so I can return the losers. Who has suggestions?

For reference my current rig consists of:
Pro-Ject Debut III, AT 440mla cart, Acryl It Platter & Speed Box S
Cambridge Audio 640P
Parasound P5
Aragon 8008x3
Polk LsiM705

soundfreak1

For that budget you can get a (used) Leahman black cube SE. Has all and more than you mentioned and you may not want to send it back.

Nightfall

http://www.loungeaudio.com/lcr-mr-iii

This is a very popular budget phono pre over at SHF. 40dB of gain, passive LCR network.

DaveHo

Will look into those. Thanks.

Mikey081057

Take a look at the Budgie

http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiepreamp.html

voltz

That speed box & Acrylic platter were a nice improvement for your TT.

I think your phono amp is a decent one, but if your lookingto upgrade it I recommend the Vincent PHO-8 for $300 or the PHO-700 for $500

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VIPHO700

DaveHo

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Take a look at the Budgie

http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiepreamp.html

I know of the budgie's reputation, but my cart's output falls short of the recommended 5mV min. Thanks for the suggestion.

aprazer402

I've been considering a Budgie for use with my AT440MLa cart. I never saw a minimum cartridge "output" requirement listed by Parks Audio for the Budgie. The output listed for the AT440MLa on the AT website is "4.0 (mV, 1 kHz, 5 cm/sec)." I would like to know the answer to this after reading Dave's comment. Also wondering if the Budgie would work with my Denon HOMC DL-160 cart. It's output voltage listed as 1.6mV, would I require a SUT using a Budgie? Not trying to derail Dave, you just brought up the Budgie 5mV min. recommendation I just need clarification/advice too. I know I can call Parks Audio, but you guys know everything and I can be real dumb on new things Thank you.

Jaybeez

Nightfall wrote: »

http://www.loungeaudio.com/lcr-mr-iii

This is a very popular budget phono pre over at SHF. 40dB of gain, passive LCR network.

Love mine, and would recommend.

DaveHo

aprazer402 wrote: »

I've been considering a Budgie for use with my AT440MLa cart. I never saw a minimum cartridge "output" requirement listed by Parks Audio for the Budgie. The output listed for the AT440MLa on the AT website is "4.0 (mV, 1 kHz, 5 cm/sec)." I would like to know the answer to this after reading Dave's comment. Also wondering if the Budgie would work with my Denon HOMC DL-160 cart. It's output voltage listed as 1.6mV, would I require a SUT using a Budgie? Not trying to derail Dave, you just brought up the Budgie 5mV min. recommendation I just need clarification/advice too. I know I can call Parks Audio, but you guys know everything and I can be real dumb on new things Thank you.

From the Budgie's specs:
Gain: 38dB (suitable for carts with at least 5mV output)

aprazer402

This cartridge output requirement is still confusing me, especially after reading this https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mv-output-from-cartridge-please-explain
I'm going to check with Parks Audio and report back on the "at least 5mV output" statement they list, I saw it on their Budgie website page too.

mhardy6647

so-- if I can do arithmetic right (with a calculator!), the difference between 1.5 mV and 5 mV, after Bob Harley* (reference below), is 10.4 dB. In other words, you'd lose 10 dB of output (a factor of 10-fold, potentially, in terms of volume) with a 1.5 mV cartridge relative to a 5 mV cartridge.

*Now, I've gotta admit, I am not at all sure why the delta is 10.4 and not 5.2 dB... maybe the factor of "20" Harley used was because there are two channels (stereo)?
reference: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/taking-the-guesswork-out-of-phonostage-gain-1/

Remember, also, that the cartridge output specs are nominal -- usually referenced to a certain frequency and groove velocity (1 kHz @ 5 cm/sec peak, e.g.,https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/mv-output-from-cartridge-please-explain). In practice (of course!) both frequency and velocity change (a lot!) when playing an actual record containing actual music!

Now, 10 dB is a lot of difference in signal (and, ultimately, loudness). If nothing else, the s/n will be that much worse at any given listening level... but it does NOT mean that a 1.5 mV nominal output cartridge won't work with the phono preamp in question. The question would be "Will it let me play my rekkids loud enough to satisfy me?". I'd opine (ahem) that's a question that can only be answered empirically

All this being said, it sure is nice to have options in terms of gain (and loading!) in a phono preamp. Today, thanks to the resurgence of interest in playing records, there are reasonably priced options that give one much flexibility.

The Schiit Mani, e.g., would be well worth a look, I would think! A lot of capability in a cheap package! Mind you, I've never heard one, so it might sound like... you know... Schiit, but even if you didn't like it, it's probably returnable and even if it's not... it would probably be easy to sell it and recoup most of one's investment!

Best case, maybe you've got a friend who's got some Schiit?

http://schiit.com/products/mani

mhardy6647

The aforementioned Schiit Mani offers four different gain options: 30 dB, 42 dB, 48 dB and 59 dB, and loading options that should support most MM, LOMC and HOMC cartridges reasonably well.

msg

DaveHo wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Take a look at the Budgie

http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiepreamp.html

I know of the budgie's reputation, but my cart's output falls short of the recommended 5mV min. Thanks for the suggestion.

Is that cart something you're married to?
Seems like a different cart might be a consideration before collecting phono pres?

mhardy6647

msg wrote: »

DaveHo wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Take a look at the Budgie

http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiepreamp.html

I know of the budgie's reputation, but my cart's output falls short of the recommended 5mV min. Thanks for the suggestion.

Is that cart something you're married to?
Seems like a different cart might be a consideration before collecting phono pres?

Good point

There are so many good phono cartridges available at all price points -- the only real difference between today and the halcyon days of record playing is the lack of truly good, cheap cartridges. In 1979 or so, the Grado FTE+ (more or less equivalent to today's Grado Black) was thirteen dollars. I bought one for my parents way back when -- a very good cartridge then (and still a good sounding one now to my ears). The conical stylus Grado of the same era (FCR+, I believe, was the model) was nine dollars.

I mean, one could invoke inflation and say that $13 then had the buying power of $46.58 today (https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm), but the CPI doesn't really do a very good job of estimating price over time for electronics

Grado stylus pull3 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

DaveHo

msg wrote: »

DaveHo wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Take a look at the Budgie

http://parksaudiollc.com/budgiepreamp.html

I know of the budgie's reputation, but my cart's output falls short of the recommended 5mV min. Thanks for the suggestion.

Is that cart something you're married to?
Seems like a different cart might be a consideration before collecting phono pres?

The 440mla tracks like no other at it's price point. I've tried a few others, but could never get rid of IGD until I tried the AT. I will upgrade the table/cart at some point, but not now. That's part of the reason I'd like a flexible pre, future proof. I don't think the current table is worthy of a more expensive cart.

jdjohn

@DaveHo : I have a Schiit Mani gathering dust if you want to try it. They are known for RFI issues, but if you're clear of any nearby FM transmitters, it might be worth a try. I didn't realize I was that close to a transmitter, but apparently I am! PM me if interested.

mikeyb128

That lounge audio LCR is awesome! It sounds way better than it should for the measly 300 it costs. And the build is solid.

jdjohn

mikeyb128 wrote: »

That lounge audio LCR is awesome! It sounds way better than it should for the measly 300 it costs. And the build is solid.

It has some informed fans on the vinylengine forum as well, and that's a good thing. I am pleased with my investment in my Pro-ject PhonoBox DS+, but I would not hesitate to try the Lounge Audio if the opportunity presented itself.

mikeyb128

I sold it, and kicking myself to this day for not keeping it. My EE is much better, but that lounge would have been one heck of a backup.

Manticore

FWIW I found myself looking for a pre due to the the Denon receivers phono section sounding like the .40 cents it was worth. I tried the Bellari. https://www.musicdirect.com/phono-preamps/bellari-vp130-tube-phono-preamp
It did sound pretty good but was more than I needed. Option wise and price.


I wound up with the NAD PP2.
https://nadelectronics.com/products/all-amplifiers/pre-amplifiers/

I was really impressed with this budget phono pre. No frills, no adjustments just very good sound with plenty of gain. I am upgrading this to the NAD pp4 with the USB out so I can copy some records. It should have been in last week but...

Just a thought for a nice sounding phono pre well within the price range.

doctor r

I have not tried the iFi iPhono but some of the reviews make it interesting.
https://analogplanet.com/content/whats-8500-cartridge-doing-place-399-ifi-iphono-phono-preamplifier

Dawgfish

I have a Lounge Audio LCR that I use for backup duty. Like the others have said, it offers great bang for the buck and I don't hesitate to recommend it.

If you are willing to change your mind on a used unit, I highly, highly recommend a Jolida JD-9. They sound good stock, but can be taken way up the latter with relatively easy and inexpensive mods. They are very adjustable and compatible with virtually any cartridge out there should you decide to experiment with different cartridges in the future. Read up on the DYI articles on modifying this unit. I and others here on the board can verify the glowing reviews of modded JD-9s are very much spot-on.