SDA-SRS 3.1TL - Need Assistance with Feedback Problem

voltz

Dave @westmassguy built my Dreadnaught for me, I sent you a PM about his site and where to see pics of it. its a 800v and I love what it does!

heroesunplugged

txcoastal1 wrote: »

You may post a WTB for either an 800 or 1000....and bump it ever so often. There was a huge buy recently, and the 1000's are only available on a qty order.

The 800 is still a great value, and there might be someone willing to let one go, or you could start from scratch.

Sorry you had to go through all this trial and error stuff, but the thread laid out some great info.

Good luck on your journey and hope you stick around

--Ron

Sure thing Ron. Thanks for the welcome, encouraging words, and that bit of advice concerning the want ads. Seems like I'm in good company here on the Polk forum. Lot of interesting discussions and very knowledgeable members. Agreed, the fact that other's have blazed a trail, makes it possible for novices, like myself, to improve on the original Polk designs too and get solid advice on a variety of audio topics.

Have had the 3.1TLs for about a year and rarely used them. Guess this discussion somewhat explains why they haven't been my go to speakers. Next move is simply to get acquainted with the sound of this setup and work with placement. Have become accustomed to a particular pair of speakers over the last few weeks, so not wanting to rush to an early judgement. Slow to pull the trigger most of the time. Believe they'll fit in somewhere, so more concerned about missing out, than jumping ship.

heroesunplugged

Thanks voltz. Have reached out to Dave to get an idea of the cost. Seems very reasonable, but not ready to commit the additional funds right now. If necessary, will put the Sony amp back into action and live with it a while.

heroesunplugged

Alright, want to give a little more info on my most recent discovery. Will call this, "A Tale of Two Cables" (It was the best of cables. It was the worst of cables)

Earlier in the discussion I stated that there is a hardness to the sound of the midrange frequencies. The mids don't sound natural. Strapping the amp did help tame the dimensional drivers and eliminate feedback. Last couple of days have been a struggle to reconcile the lack of quality of the overall tonal signature of the 3.1TLs. The lack of detail, definition, dynamics, and bass impact is surprising. Did they sound like this when the SA-250 was first installed a year ago? Remember being impressed, but it has been a while.

Decided to switch back to the Sony amp because not enjoying the Emo + 3.1TL combination. The Sony provides easier listening, but still lacking solid definition. Imaging is limited to left and right with little dimensional information. Overall, with either amp, panned effects lack extension into the room and good focus is limited. There is a smearing of images. Anybody remember Atari's "Football" on the 2600? There were like 3 players on each team and the players all looked like giant, pixilated, renditions of the Pillsbury Dough Boy (Ghost Buster's version). Each player was huge in comparison to the field. They flashed all over the place and it was difficult to pinpoint directionality. Sometimes they would disappear completely. Often couldn't differentiate one team from the other due to the lack of contrast. Where's the ball? In scale it was about the size of a golf ball in the hands of an NFL giant.

A little dismayed, start thinking about the cables. It's been something considered, but haven't acted on it. It's simple and easy, but the likelihood? There's a nice set of Raymond Cable (silver tinned) cables, a friend didn't like, laying around unused. Used before seemed a slight benefit. Maybe those can help some? Don't have any real expectations that they will be much different. Not big on pricey cables, a lot of it is hype, aesthetics and placebo. Other than a change of material, or gauge there are subtle differences, at best. Well, nothing to lose so roll with it. The Monster's, when removing them, grip too tight anyway, as they are cursed for putting a strangle-hold on the terminals. Always concerned about the shielding on any piece of equipment those have been used on.

Monster's thoroughly cursed and removed, swap over to the RC's while still using the TA-3200F and... Okay, wow, additional bass extension, weight and definition are immediately apparent. That wasn't the complaint with the Sony, but alright. Before, it was dry, a little grainy, and lacking in a little in the mids where the SA-250 seemed a little too much and fatiguing, although smooth. Here we go, the mids are much more present. There is definition between instruments and solidity without the grainy sound. It is smooth, full, natural and has dimensionality. Really!? No way! Seriously!? Monster is decent cable right? It has dual balanced conductors, directional, and has THX certification!

Well now, have to hear the SA-250 with the Raymond. If this is the result with the Sony can there be improvement with the newer and more powerful amp? You bet your boots! Bass is better with the Emo than the Sony. Bass is a louder than before and more defined. Definition is better across the audible range, tonality has shifted - slightly better than the Sony and now listenable. The hardness in the piano and other mid-band frequencies no longer approach harsh and are realistically rendered.

Finally! Enjoying the music again with the Emo amp and now time to try one last thing - remove the strap, confirm the amp on the higher gain setting and cautiously turn it on with the pre turned to minimum. Power on, no feedback. Raise volume gradually to average listening levels with music playing - no problem. Back off volume, grab the remote and go back to seated position and once again start raising the volume. Whoa! Unbelievable! Outrageous! Stunning! Surreal! & Puzzling!

No more dimensional effects overpowering the main stereo drivers. No more seemingly random background effects overwhelming sounds that are prominent. No more main vocal parts pushed from the foreground creating a recessive, vocal track. Everything now coming together - cohesive, yet extremely dimensional and distinct.

Many of the words that can describe better sound applies to my experience with this out of production cable. It's smoother, full without being bloated, bass definition is increased and felt, spacial cues improve, three-dimensional space is realized and the move toward natural tonality provides extended listening sessions. Every disc, every song - improved separation, nuanced effects surface and the flatter two-dimensional image now extends into the room.

Live sound, as other's have described, with a few recordings that capture that type of close mic intimacy. Listening through several tracks of various discs and nothing but blown-a-way by how different and improved things are from a simple, single cable change. Really? A cable? Yes. Some difference for sure, because of the materials involved, but an upswing across the criteria of sound? Not expecting it, but hey I'm on board!

The other source cables being used are $8 generic cables that were purchased from Best Buy about 20 years ago. The silver tinned Raymond's do make a difference. Have never experienced such a dramatic shift in sound with a cable change, but even the Norman Laboratories Model 435s sound clearer and tighter, plus have much improved definition and focus. The Raymond Cable is also the cable that was used with the Pioneer Elite, SDA combo, when the SA-250 was initially put into service, about a year ago without incident or feedback. Monster does claim to have "Dual Balanced Conductors". Perhaps Fred can shine some light on what this means and explain if this potentially increases continuity/resistance?

Now leaning toward silver tinned copper as being advantageous to improved audio quality with the other components. After putting two other sets of standard copper interconnects, between the preamp and amp, the tinned copper improves the overall sound with other speakers too. It is more pronounced with the SDA speakers. The 12 gauge KnuKonceptz Karma speaker wire in this system is also tinned. When comparing the Karma to a friend's Luminous Audio Renaissance cable, no difference was detected between them. To be clear, the Renaissance is a 13.5 gauge cable and solid core design. It also costs exponentially more. This should reinforce that there is no agenda or preference for the more expensive cable or their aesthetics. All testing is certified and endorsed, in keeping with universally accepted double-blind methodology, by the Blind Leading the Blind Audio Consortium. The Blind Leading the Blind Audio Consortium is committed to BS (Blind Studies) and has created AIDS (Audio Industry Developmental Standards) to help support LIARS (Leaders In Audio Research Solutions). Thank you. Thank you very much!

txcoastal1

I want to "Like" and "LOL" nice report So I'll choose "like"...and leave some laughong emoji's

heroesunplugged

LOL Ron, glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the comment. Tried to do the same with one of F1Nut's comments the other day too.

F1nut wrote: »

Now, you can tell the people at emo what common ground really means......LOL