Rotel 1095 and B&W N802

jazznsoccer
jazznsoccer Posts: 12
edited April 2004 in Electronics
Will the Rotel 1095 drive the B&W Nautilus 802s? I'm looking to upgrade and need to know if I'll need a better amp.
Post edited by jazznsoccer on
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,757
    edited April 2004
    Since you're looking to upgrade you should look at getting better speakers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited April 2004
    Ditto! Grab some Lsi's and enjoy!!
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,757
    edited April 2004
    Clearing the air.......I didn't mean buy Polk's....other than SDA's.;)

    What I meant was there are IMHO alot better choice in speakers than B&W. However, I do agree that if you're sold on that sound then yes, you need better power.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,201
    edited April 2004
    Since you're looking to upgrade you should look at getting better speakers

    Ditto! Grab some Lsi's and enjoy!!

    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

    Thats the funniest thing I read in awhile.Upgrade to the lsi over the N802's...HOLY

    My god don't take the advice of the above 2.I'm a complete fan of the Lsi series but damn upgrade to them???? ummm NO.

    Rotel can power the N802's well but there are better amps out there that could do a better job.Planius,MacIntosh,Krell,Mark Levinston to name a few to look at.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    imho there are very few amps that drive the B&W's WELL. Don't get me wrong, I like Rotel's gear, but not with B&W. If I had to pick a manufacturer I'd pick Krell and in the following order of preference FPB, KMA, KSA.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,757
    edited April 2004
    Dan,

    Pfffft!!!

    Every B&W speaker that I've heard including the 802/803's sound closer to Bose than anything else, just awful. For the record, I'm no fan of the LSi's either.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited April 2004
    Gee dan I i'm really amazed that you can tell the quality of speaker just by cutting a few boxes open...crackpot.

    sean,
    You of all people ....:rolleyes:
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,201
    edited April 2004
    F1nut,
    pffffffft huh, well it seems like you don't know what good sound is.Not liking them is one thing but classify as Bose????Dude your way off base.Just to let you know B&W is one of if not the most respected speaker company in the world.Ask anyone who truely knows anything about audio.

    It's cool dude but I'm alittle taken by your response.

    Frank Z,
    knocking my living nice one dude,very classy.Sorry but I have Installed and spend countless hours with B&W products.More then any single or group of people in here.Hate to sound like an **** but I have more audio and video experience then most of the forum combined.Sorry but it's my job and I'm very good at what I do.

    You cannot compare the Lsi's the B&W 802's forget it.They are way outclassed here.If you ever heard a pair go on good electronics,you would agree.I own Lsi and know they are not in the same class as the B&W N series.It's just not there.Now if you wanna compare the Lsi's the lets say all other B&W lines well then sure they could compete very well.I bought the Lsi's over the DM and CDM series of B&W.I think the Lsi's for me sound better.Not taking anything away from B&W but I perfer the Lsi's more.I feel they are a much more well rounded speaker.

    As far as this post is concerned,the dude was looking for amp suggestions not looking for people like you to knock his speakers.

    I'm sorry for posting such an **** post.

    Give the guy some amp advice and lets leave this nonsense alone ok??

    jazznsoccer,

    As my advice above,I perfer the B&W N802's on Plinius and Krell.I have had very good experiences with both companies powering them.

    http://www.pliniusaudio.com

    http://www.krellonline.com/

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited April 2004
    I've opened up lots of canned vegatables and it don't make me a farmer. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. Just so happens that I was a local high-end shop pricing screens yesterday and they have B&W speakers out the yang, connected to B&K, Rotel, and Musical Fidelity gear. Very well thought out listeing rooms and excellant accoustics. How did the B&W's sound? Not bad. Better than my Lsi's? Nope. But then again that's my OPINION! Someone else may walk in a feel that the B&W's are next best thing to buttered toast, and even that is nothing more than an opinion.

    Your "Years of Experience" doesn't mean your an expert on what sounds good to anyone but you. Just because you think your hot doggie doo doesn't make it so. Do you have a bit of knowledge? Sure I'll grant you that. Are you the voice of what is good, better, and/or best....oh Please!:rolleyes:
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,791
    edited April 2004
    B&W sounds boring......

    Kinda like school in a boring class with a boring teacher....

    You either are sitting beside a friend or are one with your desk.....

    boring it sounds (to me)...

    but they do look good......

    I'd take some SDA's over the B&W, anyday.....anytime
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by Frank Z
    Your opinion is just that, an opinion. Just so happens that I was a local high-end shop pricing screens yesterday and they have B&W speakers out the yang, connected to B&K, Rotel, and Musical Fidelity gear. Very well thought out listeing rooms and excellant accoustics.
    Right. Opinions are like ... Yeah well you know the rest.

    As far as the amp choices above, again right tool for the right job and imho, whether or not one likes B&W's, none of those are the right tool.

    All of this aside however, the starter of this thread was not asking for an opinion on whether or not anyone here likes B&W.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited April 2004
    F1nut and Frank...

    I have nothing but respect for you guys, as both of you have answered numerous questions for me before and obviously know more than I about this wonderful hobby of ours...

    But this guy was just asking about opinions on an amp to drive his 802s, which he already owns...and all he got was responses saying to get better speakers...

    I don't know squat about the 802s and have never heard them, not do I know if the LSi are better, but to me that's not the point...

    The man just needed an answer to a simple question...

    Again, I ain't flaming anyone, just sharing my observations. No hard feelings...
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited April 2004
    Yep, You folks are correct and I apologize for diverting the thread into a possible free-for-all.:(

    Back to the subject at hand, what works with B&W. Rotel has a large following here and is worth considering. I would also suggest the Outlaw 755 for a 5 channel amp or the 770 if you are considering a 7.1 system. The ATI version of the eact same amp goes for $4000. Cutting out the B&M store can save you a ton of money and still provide you with excellant gear. Parasound amps are another option, good looks and great sound, but a bit pricey.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • I-SIG
    I-SIG Posts: 2,243
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by Polkmaniac
    F1nut and Frank...

    I have nothing but respect for you guys, as both of you have answered numerous questions for me before and obviously know more than I about this wonderful hobby of ours...

    But this guy was just asking about opinions on an amp to drive his 802s, which he already owns...and all he got was responses saying to get better speakers...

    I don't know squat about the 802s and have never heard them, not do I know if the LSi are better, but to me that's not the point...

    The man just needed an answer to a simple question...

    Again, I ain't flaming anyone, just sharing my observations. No hard feelings...

    Yeah! Tell 'em how it is! :D

    Wes
    Link: http://polkarmy.com/forums

    Sony 75" Bravia 4K | Polk Audio SDA-SRS's (w/RDO's & Vampire Posts) + SVS PC+ 25-31 | AudioQuest Granite (mids) + BWA Silver (highs) | Cary Audio CAD-200 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Rotel Michi P5 | Signal Cable Silver Resolution XLR's | Cambridge Audio azur 840C--Wadia 170i + iPod jammed w/ lossless audio--Oppo 970 | Pure|AV PF31d
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,536
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by jazznsoccer
    Will the Rotel 1095 drive the B&W Nautilus 802s? I'm looking to upgrade and need to know if I'll need a better amp.

    The RMB-1095 would do fine, especially if you could use it to biamp the 802s (don't remember if they can be). The recommended amplifier pairing is something 50-500 watts into their 8 ohm load. If a dealer was willing, you could probably for a small loss exchange your RMB-1095 (200 watts/channel x 5) for an RB-1090 (380 watts/channel x2). They retail for the same but the RB-1090 is a more impressive amp for two channel use. Many locations that sell B&W also sell Rotel in the U.S. because they come under the same holding company. I'd recommend searching for a B&W/Rotel dealer and seeing if you can get an RB-1090 or at least get a demo at the store running the speakers with the an RMB-1095 and an RB-1090.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by Emlyn
    The recommended amplifier pairing is something 50-500 watts into their 8 ohm load.
    This is where B&W's differ from a lot of other speakers. The 802's while portrayed as an 8 ohm speaker will drop faster and farther to a minimum of 3 ohms than most. This is why mucho high current amps are imho a MUST. With anything less the bass will be washed out and one will be wondering what the fuss is about.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    Yep, this is a sort of cheap way out ( See Carver Pro for example, NOT Carver ) and although these amps are good as is now, they still imho don't have an easy time with the likes of B&W's. I do believe however that this is where at least a good part of the future is.

    I think at their price point they are almost untouchable, but they are definitely about function rather than fashion.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,757
    edited April 2004
    Ok, thanks for pointing out my error. I do think they are boring speakers, but I was wrong to answer like I did.

    I also agree that a high power/high current amp is the way to go.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,201
    edited April 2004
    This thead is exactly why I don't post inhere that much anymore.

    You guys kill it dead.Guy comes in here looking for advice and you attack his loved B&W's.You tell him to buy a lesser quality speaker and be happy.......my god wheres the respect.

    I said it before but you guys overlook it.........

    Frank I'm not into pissing contests with you or anyone else for that matter.If you have something to add to the thead then post it,if you only have trash to speak of ,please kindly leave it at the door on your way out.

    I had enough of you guys with your cranked up attitudes and ego driven posts.Lay off the caffeine for a minute and re read your posts.

    Lighten up and have a good evening would yeah.

    funny how he has not replied.After reading all that garbage I wouldn't I'd leave as fast as I came in.There are other Audio/video forums to talk to more civil people.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    I haven't heard Plinius' with B&W's but I've heard more than my share of Krell's. The FPB series is the best but you're right about the $. The KSA/KMA series is also excellent and good ones can be gotten used without going for an arm and a leg. The KAV's I'm less thrilled with.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,728
    edited April 2004
    Originally posted by mantis
    This thead is exactly why I don't post inhere that much anymore.

    You guys kill it dead.Guy comes in here looking for advice and you attack his loved B&W's.You tell him to buy a lesser quality speaker and be happy.......my god wheres the respect.

    I said it before but you guys overlook it.........

    Frank I'm not into pissing contests with you or anyone else for that matter.If you have something to add to the thead then post it,if you only have trash to speak of ,please kindly leave it at the door on your way out.

    I had enough of you guys with your cranked up attitudes and ego driven posts.Lay off the caffeine for a minute and re read your posts.

    Lighten up and have a good evening would yeah.

    funny how he has not replied.After reading all that garbage I wouldn't I'd leave as fast as I came in.There are other Audio/video forums to talk to more civil people.

    Dan

    Yeah, but everyone said they're sorry...:)
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    PS ... If I had to pick a Rotel to use w/802's and I was going to use the 802's for music as well as L & R in HT I'd pick the 1090 for JUST THEM and fill in the other channels with something else. Even a 1075 should suffice for center and four surrounds and at used prices you should be able to get both for < $2k.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    PPS. For example ...

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1085977413

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1086046747
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • weavercr
    weavercr Posts: 289
    edited April 2004
    Yes they will drive the 802s.


    I like the 802s, A friend has a set driven by Krell KSA100. Grest sounging speakers. I was over once when he was using a pair of rotel 980s brigded to 180 watts/change. they sounded really good.
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  • jazznsoccer
    jazznsoccer Posts: 12
    edited April 2004
    Thanks all,

    I have not posted because I've been out on a roadtrip with my kids visiting college campuses. Just for comparison, college expenses are much less than what can be spent on audio equipment :D

    I appreciate the passion and opinions here. Didn't quite expect SO much passion :p but have enjoyed reading through the posts.

    I'm just looking to upgrade my current mid-fi system to something I'll be really happy with for a couple of years. I started with the Polk LSi 15 based upon looking at reviews to get a lay of the land and then by doing some in person auditions. And I’m still thinking the Polks are at the point where I go from a lot more performance for more money to the realm where every little bit more performance costs a lot more money. And then there’s also the mystic realm like specialty silver bi-wire – let’s please stay in the realm of science shall we? (I can hear it now – incoming! :D )

    This board has been quite helpful in getting more alternatives to look at. I had started with a budget of $6500 ( for speakers, pre/pro, amp, and universal DVD player; HDTV monitor is Sony KDF-70XBR950) but would go to 10K or so IF AND ONLY IF there is significant worthwhile difference for the extra bucks (as bucks become more scarce since my kids are helping spend vast quantities on college bills :rolleyes: ). And this, at the end of the day, will have to come down to my opinion based upon research which will be validated (or not!) by auditions. I was just curious at what the next step up would be from people who really have done a lot of homework. It looks like I would have to add ~$5000 to $10,000 or so for the next step up which is a noticeable but not huge difference in sound. I need to do some back and forth auditioning– but at this point I don’t think it’s worth the cost difference, especially if on top of the speaker cost delta I need to also upgrade the amp and pre/pro.

    If I had the time and bucks, I’d set up a double blind study just like I do at work for medical devices research where I could do a DOE on component impact on sound. If any specialty mag is interested in sponsoring the research – let’s talk…

    So, back to the amps.

    I started out liking the Onkyo 901 and Yamaha 2400 as the best of the “consumer” HT receivers. Then I got the good heads up to look at Rotel. The RMB-1095 is a great amp for the money (just like the Polk LSi 15s are great speakers for the money). My initial post here was to make sure I had speaker upgrade potential for the amp.

    I was intrigued with the Onkyo Nettune feature. Has anyone here used this? Is the internet radio source good enough to even worry about piping through a good audio setup – or is it just good for background through your PC? – I think I’ll cut this part out to a separate thread…

    I also thought about using either of these receivers, and pre-out the fronts to the Rotel RB-1090 380 x 2 (referenced by another poster above) and using the receiver to power the surrounds (leaning towards the LSi9s over the LSiFx) and LSiC.

    When I auditioned the Rotel RMB-1095, it was paired with the Rotel RSP-1098 pre/pro. I was impressed with this unit, but not so impressed with the $3000 list price. This seems like something that may be above the price/performance ratio so will need to check out others prerhaps the Rotel RSP- 1068 (which has better THD and IM Distortion than the 1098) fo 1500.

    I am primarily interested in audio, but at this level expect that I should get wonderful HT capability as a bonus.


    Polk Speakers $3700 for 5.1 setup

    Fronts LSi 15 $1500 pr
    Center LSiC $ 500 ea
    Surrounds LSi 9 $1000 pr
    Sub (Opt 1) SVS 16-46 PCi $ 649 ea
    Sub (Opt 2) Hsu VTF MK 2 $ 700 ea
    Sub (Opt 3) SVS PB1 – ISD $ 600 ea

    Universal DVD Denon 2900 $1000

    Amp Option 1
    Onkyo 901 $1300
    Rotel RB-1090 $2000

    Amp Option 2
    Rotel RMB 1095 $2000
    Rotel RSP-1098 $3000

    Total System ~$8,000 to 10,000
    Before negotiating; not including tax or cables
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited April 2004
    Without getting into the particulars about the choices of the options you've listed, I really would give serious consideration to buying at least some of the equipment used.

    For example, I posted a link the other day to a 9 month old used 1090 ...

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1085977413

    $1325 obo ... Check it out. You aren't gonna talk this guy down to $1000, but theres a large gap between getting it new and what he's asking for it and unless he's thrown it out a third story window you really won't be able to tell the difference after you've had it for a week. He's got good pictures of it and appears willing to toss in shipping if you meet his asking price.

    LSi15's ... A dealer demo ... http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1086719913 ... or NIB ... http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1085877489

    LSiC's ... Maybe a little tougher to find but they sometimes show up on eBay ...

    LSi9's ... There are a couple of pairs on Audiogon for 5-700 but you might want to rethink these in a 5.1 set up where you are using them as surrounds as imho the sides in a 7.1 or sides/rears in a 5.1 really are better with difused sound and the LSiFX's are no chumps.

    DVD-2900's ... These can typically be gotten for 550-750 slightly used.

    Choose what you want or not but there really is no reason I can think of to buy ALL this stuff brand new. I used to think the same way but not any more as I wind up swapping equipment for one reason or another fairly frequently and as such now quite often can turn components over for more or less what I bought them for which of course means I'm not constantly pulling addition coins out my pocket unless I really am upgrading.
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited April 2004
    So now the B&W's are out???

    I was going to throw a Sunfire 2 ch into the mix. If the B&W's are that difficult to drive due to dipping impedance, then a load invariant amp would seem to fit the bill.

    Add a 5 ch Cinema Grand and you've got 7 ch's for HT... Just a couple thoughts from a satisfied Sunfire owner...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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