Bi-Amp AVR or just a separate amp?

K_M

mpitogo wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bi-amping_and_tri-amping

So in essence what manufacturers do by putting in two sets of binding posts with a jumper and leaving the passive crossover in place is asinine. Why do they even do it! marketing?

Bingo!
They found out people think it is some worthy feature, and now most all speakers must have dual binding posts.

Then they created a market to connect the Top and bottom posts together with a fancy wire, which is also marketing also, as you could save all the aggravation and simply solder both the high and low connections to ONE binding post pair (internally) and eliminate one set of connections.....and the jumper needed to connect them.


Simple usually is better.

tonyb

They are there to give people options, to passively bi-amp or use bi-wire speaker cables.

DanInNaperville

I have a 6015 and it’s bi-amped to my LSIm towers. The receiver’s power supply is good for about 600 watts continuously and probably twice that (driven by stored energy in the PS capacitors) for a second or so.
The receiver has 9 discrete amplifiers that regulate the current supplied by that power supply. The English term for tubes, valves, is a partial analogy. Each of those amps can “throttle” up to 110 watts cleanly, about 140 fairly cleanly, and a little over 200 while introducing a lot of noise. By using two of those amps for each of my speakers (that are rated for 250 watts, continuous) I can provide the power they need.
Remember that even though the 6015’s power supply can easily provide a very clean 500 watts to my towers, the individual amps cannot.
Beyond that, speakers are somewhat reactive loads, and by limiting the range of frequency based impedance varying load being fed back to the transistors in the amps, it lets them produce a slightly cleaner signal.
Obviously, most of the benefits will come when most of the signal is going to the two towers, which it usually is, especially when listening to music.
Bi-amping from an AVR can be very beneficial.

BlueFox

DanInNaperville wrote: »

I have a 6015 and it’s bi-amped to my LSIm towers.

What is a 6015?

rooftop59

BlueFox wrote: »

DanInNaperville wrote: »

I have a 6015 and it’s bi-amped to my LSIm towers.

What is a 6015?

I’m assuming that’s a Marantz SR6015 avr…

pitdogg2

rooftop59 wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

DanInNaperville wrote: »

I have a 6015 and it’s bi-amped to my LSIm towers.

What is a 6015?

I’m assuming that’s a Marantz SR6015 avr…

I too was wondering.

jbreezy5

I agree it is better to use high quality jumpers and suitable high quality amplification to drive speakers rather than bi-amplify.

This, all the more, when discussing simple two-way bookies. Why would anyone NEED (italics) their midrange and highs driven by separate amplifiers?… or worse yet, different amplifiers?!

F1nut

Bi-amping from an AVR can be very beneficial.

Except you aren't bi-amping. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Hermitism

What if no one likes Peter, but you're good buddies with Paul?

DanInNaperville

Sort I wasn’t clear - It’s a Marantz SR 6015 receiver.

mhardy6647

Hermitism wrote: »

What if no one likes Peter, but you're good buddies with Paul?

DanInNaperville

F1nut wrote: »

Bi-amping from an AVR can be very beneficial.

Except you aren't bi-amping. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

No, I am not. A power supply that can easily supply 500 watts of very clean power cannot deliver much more than half of that to two speakers through two amplifiers that distort beyond 110-140.

And there is the further issue of all speakers having non-linear impedance.

pitdogg2

DanInNaperville wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Bi-amping from an AVR can be very beneficial.

Except you aren't bi-amping. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

No, I am not. A power supply that can easily supply 500 watts of very clean power cannot deliver much more than half of that to two speakers through two amplifiers that distort beyond 110-140.

And there is the further issue of all speakers having non-linear impedance.

Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05% 2ch Drive) 110 W per Marantz

Years ago they used to give the spec's on 5 or 7 channels driven. They no longer do that because it would show that the rated power dropped, sometimes dramatically. Many that were rated at 120wpc x 5 or 7 would show a drop to the 40-50 wpc range. As you can see Marantz has only rated that one to provide 110 wpc at only 2 channels driven. Granted they do show a 20Hz-20kHz which is a solid rating. Most only show they can provide the rated spec at only 1kHz which means it usually couldn't make the rated output at a 20Hz-20kHz bandwidth.

The power supply and filter caps are the most EXPENSIVE part of the amp or receiver. Many receivers have dropped in weight yet still profess to be able to make the same power. Unless it is a class D design you cannot drop weight in the iron and storage caps in the power supply and still get the same results in a class AB design, you may be able to in short burst but cannot sustain the WPC over 5 or seven channels which you are asking it to do by the "Bi-Amp" thing.

Do you think that by "Bi-amping" you are now getting 220 wpc to your speakers? How can you if the company itself states that it can ONLY supply 110 WPC for only 2 channels?

F1nut

DanInNaperville wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

Bi-amping from an AVR can be very beneficial.

Except you aren't bi-amping. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

No, I am not. A power supply that can easily supply 500 watts of very clean power cannot deliver much more than half of that to two speakers through two amplifiers that distort beyond 110-140.

And there is the further issue of all speakers having non-linear impedance.

You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about.

invalid

Even with multiple amps and an active crossover, most people do it for more than just the added power. They biamp to use an amp on the mid-range/ tweeters that sounds better for that application and an amp that works better for the low frequencies. Your not going to gain any of that with an AVR.

tonyb

DanInNaperville wrote: »

I have a 6015 and it’s bi-amped to my LSIm towers. The receiver’s power supply is good for about 600 watts continuously and probably twice that (driven by stored energy in the PS capacitors) for a second or so.
The receiver has 9 discrete amplifiers that regulate the current supplied by that power supply. The English term for tubes, valves, is a partial analogy. Each of those amps can “throttle” up to 110 watts cleanly, about 140 fairly cleanly, and a little over 200 while introducing a lot of noise. By using two of those amps for each of my speakers (that are rated for 250 watts, continuous) I can provide the power they need.
Remember that even though the 6015’s power supply can easily provide a very clean 500 watts to my towers, the individual amps cannot.
Beyond that, speakers are somewhat reactive loads, and by limiting the range of frequency based impedance varying load being fed back to the transistors in the amps, it lets them produce a slightly cleaner signal.
Obviously, most of the benefits will come when most of the signal is going to the two towers, which it usually is, especially when listening to music.
Bi-amping from an AVR can be very beneficial.

I would love to break this down line by line and explain why your wrong, but most of us get a bit tired of repeating ourselves all the time. Soo, I'll just suggest you get your read on, do a tad bit more research about power supplies and how they work, or don't work, especially the ones in receivers. Also, for future reference, speakers really don't run on watts persay, they run on current, and you'd be hard pressed to find that number in any receivers spec.