Phono pre amp

kevhed72

Looking to move up from my standard Project phono box to something which can accept either a MM or MC cart. Also open to suggestions posted here....here's my current rig:
LSiM703
Cary SLP03 pre
B&K200.2 amp
Music Hall mmf 7 turntable
Ortofon Red which will be upgraded to Blue or Bronze

Thanks folks....

msg

How serious a piece are you looking for?
Any sense of what you feel may be lacking, or what you're after?

Generally speaking, I really enjoy the Vincent PHO-8 and Lounge Audio LCRMK3, but that may not offer enough of a bump up from where you currently are.

Running two different setups with these and haven't done any critical swapping yet, so can't speak to which phono pre I like better. I find the PHO-8 from a Technics SL1210 with Shure M97xE is nice and smooth on a B&K AVR 507 with 703s. The Lounge runs from a 1200 with a Grado Prestige Green. It seems to be a bit more accurate, picks up a tad more surface noise too. Not quite as laid back overall, but that could be the P5 + Parasound amp, too. Also on 703's.

Maybe the Vincent PHO-700?
Budgie gets some good marks, as well.

One thing I do notice with running phono is that I have to bump the volume significantly over that of a digital source. I've had this experience on all test systems so far with all phono pre's I've tried. MM/MI carts. Do MC carts with SUTs perform similarly?

hochpt21

I don't have one for sale, but if you see a PS Audio GCPH for under $500 on the used market, snatch it up.

Can be easily adjusted to fit almost any cart and SQ is amazing.

I've used mine in a variety of situations, but directly into the amp has always been hard to argue against in my rigs.

nooshinjohn

I am liking my Pass Labs Xono...

kevhed72

I guess I'm looking for one which images better / 3D effect....while not being over analytical, as most of my albums are older and not necessarily pristine condition. As far as price.....something used which would run 400 to 500ish.....I don't want to shoot too low on this purchase and being upgrading again in the near future. Hope that all makes sense.

kevhed72

hochpt21 wrote: »

I don't have one for sale, but if you see a PS Audio GCPH for under $500 on the used market, snatch it up.

Can be easily adjusted to fit almost any cart and SQ is amazing.

I've used mine in a variety of situations, but directly into the amp has always been hard to argue against in my rigs.

There's one on the Bay from GB....but I'm always a bit weary of all that extra handling during shipping.

msg

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, goals and not shooting too low.
That PS Audio Paul mentioned looks stout. I like that.

At your mention of collection condition was going to ask whether you'd gotten serious about cleaning, and saw you're using a Record Doc, so you have that covered.

kevhed72 wrote: »

I guess I'm looking for one which images better / 3D effect....while not being over analytical, as most of my albums are older and not necessarily pristine condition. As far as price.....something used which would run 400 to 500ish.....I don't want to shoot too low on this purchase and being upgrading again in the near future. Hope that all makes sense.

halo

msg wrote: »

How serious a piece are you looking for?
Any sense of what you feel may be lacking, or what you're after?

Generally speaking, I really enjoy the Vincent PHO-8 and Lounge Audio LCRMK3, but that may not offer enough of a bump up from where you currently are.

Running two different setups with these and haven't done any critical swapping yet, so can't speak to which phono pre I like better. I find the PHO-8 from a Technics SL1210 with Shure M97xE is nice and smooth on a B&K AVR 507 with 703s. The Lounge runs from a 1200 with a Grado Prestige Green. It seems to be a bit more accurate, picks up a tad more surface noise too. Not quite as laid back overall, but that could be the P5 + Parasound amp, too. Also on 703's.

Maybe the Vincent PHO-700?
Budgie gets some good marks, as well.

One thing I do notice with running phono is that I have to bump the volume significantly over that of a digital source. I've had this experience on all test systems so far with all phono pre's I've tried. MM/MI carts. Do MC carts with SUTs perform similarly?

IMHO, the Shure & Grado are both "warm/lush" sounding from what I've read & heard. I know that the Nagaoka MP110 + Schiit Mani is supposed to be a very good combo. Way under your price range but the Mani handles both MM & MC. Sometimes you don't have to $pend a lot to get what you're after & sometimes you do.

kevhed72

I may just give the Schiit a try since Im a big fan of their DAC.... especially if I can scoop up a used one. That and a Ortofon Blue stylus may be the budget way to go....

msg

This is kind of a timely post, you looking for a phono pre. I was cleaning some vinyl this past weekend, testing out the new USRCM I built from Brian's kit.

I was never really very impressed with my front 2ch system where vinyl was concerned, and so I hadn't really used it much. While cleaning, I also decided to try some different cables just for ease while I was swapping in the Budgie on a whim.

I went from the Lounge LCR with MIT S3 ICs to the Budgie with Doug's DIY Furez cables, and experienced a profound improvement. The LCR/MIT combo sounded very flat, lifeless, compressed, and strained. Just a big muddled mess. With the Budgie/Doug's Furez combo, everything brightened up immediately. Congestion gone, greater clarity, separation and articulation. Bass is tight and punchy. Presentation is very smooth, and I noticed some details I'd not heard before.

General System Setup

• Technics SL-1200 w/Grado Green; oe captive cables
• Park's Budgie phono preamp; oe tubes
• Doug's DIY Furez IC's
• Parasound P5
• MIT S3 XLR
• Parasound HCA-3500
• LSiM703s on Pangea DS400 stands (mass loaded with sand)

I still haven't figured out what's going on there. The only thing that's different is the phono pre and the cables. Synergy? I'm going to need to experiment a bit more, and try the same cables on the Lounge LCR to try to determine whether it's the signature of the LCR or something to do with cables and output of the LCR. Whatever it is, it's not a good combination.

On the contrary, in a secondary system, MIT S3's coming off a Vincent PHO-8 to a B&K AVR 507 sounds better than the front system. Not as good as the Budgie/Doug's combination on the P5/HCA-3500 in the main space, though. For the first time ever, I experienced some depth in imaging. It happened with the background percussion in one of the tracks from Chris Isaak's Forever Blue on vinyl - not even a particularly good quality pressing. It seemed to have some depth, and sounded like it was coming from a bit further back than the main instruments and vocals, which seemed more upfront and easily localized. I thought I was making it up, but it was undeniable and repeatable. I also, for the first time, experienced a few details that seemed to be coming from just outside the width of the speakers. I've always read about this, but never experienced it myself.

If you know anyone near you who has a Budgie, or if you can get one to try, you might give it a shot. I was kinda meh on it since mine was down for a while pending sending in for Shannon to check out for a problem I had with it pretty much right off the bat, but on a better system with clean vinyl, it's been, to date, one of my best listening experiences yet.

Shannon was great about that check and repair, btw; super friend and fast.

Just wanted to throw that out there since it may be a contender given the goals you've mentioned. I'm in love with this setup and vinyl all over again, between the Budgie, cables, and vinyl cleaning tools.

Mikey081057

I use a Budgie with some vintage tesla tubes and some nice low capacitance cables. Hard to beat for the money.

msg

mikeyb128

msg wrote: »

Cool pic! Love it!

msg

Jus' a little slice of the vinyl experience.
It's the mood, you just can't help yourself when it's right.

kevhed72

Mikey081057 wrote: »

I use a Budgie with some vintage tesla tubes and some nice low capacitance cables. Hard to beat for the money.

Are you running the Budgie through your Cary SLP03.....I thought that was your pre for some reason....

mhardy6647

msg wrote: »

oooh, that is pretty.

Mikey081057

kevhed72 wrote: »

Mikey081057 wrote: »

I use a Budgie with some vintage tesla tubes and some nice low capacitance cables. Hard to beat for the money.

Are you running the Budgie through your Cary SLP03.....I thought that was your pre for some reason....

No sir... into the Parasound P5 pre.

voltz

The Vincent PHO-8 is only like $299 now and i like it has a external power supply housed in a separate chassis. and the PHO-700 has a tube for $499
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VIPHO8

voltz

opps double trouble so how about the PHO-700 for $99 by vincent

kevhed72

voltz wrote: »

opps double trouble so how about the PHO-700 for $99 by vincent

Is this an offer. sir?

voltz

I had a double post so I thought I'd post the price of the even better pho-700 which cost $499 and had a typo. as i don't own one but want one.

my bad sorry Kev!

mikeyb128

voltz wrote: »

opps double trouble so how about the PHO-700 for $99 by vincent

99$ could have caused a Black Friday riot.

txcoastal1

Guess it was one of those 1 minute sales
Snooze....you lose

voltz

I made Kev a offer on my PHO-8.

msg

I bet you could mod two to make a PHO-16.

kevhed72

voltz wrote: »

I made Kev a offer on my PHO-8.

PM sent.....thanks

txcoastal1

msg wrote: »

I bet you could mod two to make a PHO-16.

Series or parallel

msg

Series... NO! Parallel!
Too late (stab)