Super tweeters
Comments
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I'm turning this into my own personal "Laserdisk - the Godfather" thread, aren't I?
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Here's a fairly simple DIY open baffle design that would probably sound pretty sweet
http://www.diy-audio-guide.com/fostex-fe166esr.html2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
mmmm -- the FE-**6 (166 and 206, that is) twincones (at least the earlier, "E" versions) are pretty aggressive sounding (to my ears) and have T-S parameters better suited to back-loaded horns than to OBs.
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WVHillbilly wrote: »Dayton Audio PT2C-8 Planar Tweeter
Brand:Dayton Audio|Model: PT2C-8|Part # 275-085
50 Bucks--Parts Express.
Superb resolution and detail for the most discerning audiophile
Wide horizontal and narrow vertical dispersion patterns
Perfect for use in line arrays
3 kHz recommended crossover frequency at 12 dB per octave
Love Planar Tweeters.. -
God don't get me started...This is the kind of stuff I am trying to stop doing !! I got a set of Cerwin Vega! supertweeters from some old SE 380's...and the drivers... With....Black Paint !!!
I wouldn't call those super tweeters by any means. Horn loaded tweeters YES but I'm pretty sure they do not go up to 60,000kHz
Doubtful they will make any Hz here at my house. I am trying to get rid of all the old stuff like that..All those things do is hurt my ears.. -
God don't get me started...This is the kind of stuff I am trying to stop doing !! I got a set of Cerwin Vega! supertweeters from some old SE 380's...and the drivers... With....Black Paint !!!
I wouldn't call those super tweeters by any means. Horn loaded tweeters YES but I'm pretty sure they do not go up to 60,000kHz
Doubtful they will make any Hz here at my house. I am trying to get rid of all the old stuff like that..All those things do is hurt my ears..
My son can use some 12"CV woofers. His dog ate his. Those work? Heck if it works how much for all of it? PM me. -
As one came broke off the base, I'll pop it open. (another is on its way)
Thanks everyone. This is starting to be fun!
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Just starting?
mmm -- I've been having hifi fun since at least 1974 (with an EICO HF-52 amplifier, a VM record changer equipped with a Pickering MM cartridge with a conical stylus, and a single EV Wolverine LS-12 fullrange driver in a big ol' vented box).
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rednedtugent wrote: »Bolt Thrower! Been years. Off to you tube
Listen to em in the shop when I work..Living Sacrifice anyone ?..Mortification ?? -
Bolt Thrower is awesome, not a bad album in the bunch.
Now this is one hell of a statement: "So when we carried his coffin to his final resting place, the Bolt Thrower drummer position was buried with him. He was, and will now forever remain THE Bolt Thrower drummer, our Powerhouse and friend Martin “Kiddie” Kearns."
Read More: Bolt Thrower Announce Breakup | http://loudwire.com/bolt-thrower-announce-breakup-one-year-anniversary-drummers-death/?trackback=tsmclip
Bad deal they lost Kiddie. I understand why they called it quits..
http://loudwire.com/bolt-thrower-announce-breakup-one-year-anniversary-drummers-death/ -
o.k. opened it up and it is first order.
Seems prudent to throw a resister on it
as well as a better capacitor...
not that I crank up the bedroom system...
and I think my yammy integrated should be able to handle it.
Space is a concern as I like the little cheesy case.
Even as it stands now it does seem to bring the tweeter into better
focus.mhardy6647 wrote: »rednedtugent wrote: »Well I wished I had held off a couple more days but it's that 70's show time!
I think those are the ones we had atop the FrankenAltecs here -- if so, they're not bad.
Change the XO capacitors in them, stat. ANYTHING you can get will be better than what are likely a pair of 25-cent NP electrolytics (or 50-cent films, maybe?).
I assume (?????) they're first order. I am having this vague memory that the R/S 40-1310s were actually second-order -- but I am too lazy to dig 'em out and look*.
FWIW, my friend from MA had only the raw drivers, so we used my XOs, which have Sprague "Vitamin Q" caps in 'em.
* but I'm not, barely, too lazy to google. Yup, the R/S 40-1310s had second order networks in 'em: http://support.radioshack.com/support_audio/doc69/69686.pdf
*
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rednedtugent wrote: »o.k. opened it up and it is first order.
Seems prudent to throw a resister on it
as well as a better capacitor...
not that I crank up the bedroom system...
and I think my yammy integrated should be able to handle it.
Space is a concern as I like the little cheesy case.
Even as it stands now it does seem to bring the tweeter into better
focus.
...
No shame in the case -- it is "fit for purpose".
I mean, I'd hate to be greeted by my "HF arrays" first thing in the morning when I opened my eyes.
DSC_7249 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
So -- what value is the XO cap that's there? 4 uF? Maybe 2uF? I would, humbly (of course), encourage you to raise the XO by at least a factor of two from where Pyramid's "acoustic engineers" put it. You want the supertweeter to supertweet.
I'd recommend (FWIW) 2 uF (10kHz) or 1 uF (20 kHz) to maximize the value of the supertweeter and minimize -- ahem -- "deleterious effects"
(edit: those XO values are assuming they're 8 ohm drivers)
Again, the crazy-high XO frequency isn't really that crazy when the XO's first order. If, e.g., the tweeter sensitivity is 95 dB, one octave down from the XO (i.e., 10 kHz), the output could still be 89 dB. 89 dB at 10 kHz could be used to exterminate bats and torture enemy combatants, no problem
Re: "throwing a resistor on it" -- to what end?
Do you mean an L-pad to drop the level? An in-line resistor will alter the crossover.
The tweeter isn't going to see much energy from the amplifier (especially if you raise the XO to 10 kHz or more). The tweeter shouldn't need much other protection than the XO unless you're planning to drive the pee-pee out of the amplifier.
Nothing but the XO cap protects my T90As from the thunderous 3.5 watts of my single-ended 2A3 amp
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Oh yes, 3.3uf. I was thinking the same thing on the drive in! (raising the XO)
They say 4-8 ohms... I assume 4 ohm. 2 or 2.2uf might just be the ticket!
Thanks Doc.
The resister was for just in case.
Supposedly the super tweets can handle anything the A-S2100 can throw at it.
BUT
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You can use a Polyswitch!
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I had high hopes clicking on a thread titled "Super Tweeters".....and once again I walk away disappointed. God I miss Rick and Mike.... HT SYSTEM-
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lsi 9's -
next time we'll have one called 'bodacious tweeters', perhaps?
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No secrets here!
Hey Doc, I see the L-pads and f90 tweeter and stuff on parts express but where did you buy the box? and what cap should i use?
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/l-pads-attenuators/
Thinking of trying the Super tweeter on my DIY Folded Horn Speakers
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HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
@mhardy6647 No inductor at all either?
I re-read that radio shack manual and they used a
.027 mhz choke. I guess I don't have to go crazy here
but I'm striving for somewhat predictable results.
Oh, the heck w/ it. I'll just order the capacitors. -
So, it looks like some versions of the R/S did use a second order XO (12 dB per octave slope). I'd say either go first order, crossed over higher, or second order crossed over lower -- that's what you get for taking speaker design advice from a biochemist!
As to the box for my DIY crossover -- it's a small black plastic Hammond box. I think PartsExpress sells them. If not, www.tubesandmore.com has 'em (at least they did). I can check the size of the one I used if need be. I used the black ABS plastic box, they have sheet aluminum & cast aluminum boxes, too.
FWIW, Jameco is another company that used to (maybes still does) have a plethora of fairly nice enclosures & might be worth a look.
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Thanks again Doc!
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heh -- in a classic case of synchronicity... lookee at the subject of yesterday's blog post by Joseph Esmilla:
http://jelabs.blogspot.com/2017/03/radio-shack.html
JE's post mentions the 40-1354 twincone driver and the 40-1310 supertweeter of this thread!
On the off-chance you all don't know who Joseph Esmilla is -- he's the fellow who, among (many) other things, designed the single-ended 2A3 amplifer that I use.
http://jelabsarch.blogspot.com/2012/06/je-labs-simple-452a3.html
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You guys make me read too much..
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mhardy6647 wrote: »next time we'll have one called 'bodacious tweeters', perhaps?
Oh My... -
There you go! I think an inductor would help but then you
would have to know the inductance needed on the Pyramid.
Day two: more hash and grain. More King Crimson break-in disc
Gotta get the order out for new Caps. Solens seem to be the sweet
spot unless someone has a better idea. Keep in mind space is an
issue. Going 2.2uf
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rednedtugent wrote: »There you go! I think an inductor would help but then you
would have to know the inductance needed on the Pyramid.
Day two: more hash and grain. More King Crimson break-in disc
Gotta get the order out for new Caps. Solens seem to be the sweet
spot unless someone has a better idea. Keep in mind space is an
issue. Going 2.2uf
Well -- (and not that I'm advocating a second order XO) that's not hard; if you wanted a second order XO, you just need to know the nominal impedance of the driver (the actual impedance behavior would be better to know -- but we're butchers here!) and you can use a calculator.
I usually use this one (I think I mentioned it before):
http://www.erseaudio.com/Second-Order-2-Way
Is it a four ohm driver?
If so, for second order (12 dB/octave) at 10,000 Hz: the coil would be 0.09 mH and the capacitor would be 2.8 uF
If it's eight ohm, the coil would be 0.18 mH and the capacitor would be 1.4 uF (twice the impedance, half the component values)
For completeness:
For an 8 ohm driver:
2.2 uF = 9000 Hz (first order = 6 dB per octave slope)
For a 4 ohm driver:
2.2 uF = 18,000 Hz (first order = 6 dB per octave slope)
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...
Oh My...
Yeah, Carly had a couple of big -- umm -- hits on that album.
It's a pretty good record, in my hardly-humble opinion. It includes supporting performances by - among others - Mick Jagger, Paul & Linda McCartney, Bonnie Bramlett, Lowell George, Bill Payne, Jim Gordon and Jim Keltner, Bobby Keys, and Klaus Voorman -- and Paul Buckmaster did the string arrangements.
She also had her share of -- educational, shall we say -- album covers when a generation of American males (me included) were reaching a certain age
Supertweeters. This thead is about supertweeters.
ahem
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Derp -- in the interest of full & complete disclosure, these are the Pyramid supertweeters that we A/B'd with the Fostex T90A here @ my house last month.
http://www.parts-express.com/pyramid-tw44-heavy-duty-titanium-super-tweeter--270-125?AID=1457483&PID=3696791&SID=1010X497171X294463bfbdb4d958818e5dfba0265d86
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Well,
1st order Mrs. Butterworth using solens caps isn't satisfactory.
Bought some 3.3 mhz inductors as well and that is the next step.
Couldn't pull the trigger on some L Pads which would probably do the
trick...
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well, you need to match the output level of the tweeter to the rest of the system -- the crossover per se won't do that for you. You either need a fixed or variable pad to do it.
If the tweeter is less sensitive than the system (which, I am pretty sure, isn't the case!) you'd be SOL
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