Super tweeters

[Deleted User]

Don't laugh but has anyone tried these lately?
i was eyeballing some prestige speakers and ran across this;
http://www.tannoy.com/lifestyle/products/HiFi/SuperTweeter-2/Prestige-GR-SuperTweeter/

Then I thought of my old radio shack ST and checked ebay. Hmmm.
Then I bounced to amazon and I'm thinking of trying these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0007L8A7M/ref=psdc_10980771_t1_B00HLMGIZ6

mhardy6647

I use supertweeters every day. You probably would too if your HF drivers were (depending on the day) either Altec 802D 1" throat or JBL 2441 2" throat compression drivers on 500 Hz horns

DSC_6840 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Supertweeters are Fostex T90A -- not the best imaginable, but not bad for the money.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-t90a-top-mount-horn-super-tweeter/

here's the crossover schematic First order with a 1 uF capacitor (8 ohm load -- you can do the math -- it's very high but first order means only 6 dB drop off per octave), with an L-pad to adjust to taste.

IMG_0340 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr


I did finally build a proper XO for these (atypical as it may seem).

075 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

No knock against ribbons, by the way. I like the sound of ribbon/planar drivers, but I really can't afford (i.e., rationalize the expenditure for) suitably sensitive ribbon drivers for my application.

Strictly all FYI/FWIW.

[Deleted User]

I'm thinking L pads would be the way to go...
Thanks for the reminder. Off to parts express!

erniejade

The old radio shack ones I think were fostex made and if memory serves me correctly, did not sound bad. The amazon pic does kind of look like them but I have no idea if the actual driver is the same.

mhardy6647

That's what I inferred from your earlier post -- same as with subwoofers (although the peculiarities of room interactions with the radiator are an even bigger deal with LF due to the wavelengths involved).

---

Yes, the R/S cat. no. 40-1310 supertweeters were made by Fostex and - absent the chintzy capacitor XO included with them by R/S - were pretty good drivers, with output out to 40 kHz or better and good sensitivity, too. I can't find the reference any more but Paul Joppa (who is, in essence, Bottlehead's chief designer) once posted somewhere that, in his professional life, he used the Radio Shack/Fostex 40-1310s as ultrasonic transducers for a project, with good success. In other words, R/S's claim that they had output to 40kHz was actually true!

Fostex still makes a modern version (of the R/S 'bullet' horn supertweeter, that is), FYI/FWIW.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-ft17h-horn-super-tweeter/



Fostex also makes (ahem) some high-end supertweeters -- very nice but too rich for my blood

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-t500amkii-super-tweeter-new-version/

Now, as to the myriad, still available lookalikes to the RS 40-1310. They are legion -- PartsExpress sells a few examples, and there are others at eBAY and (apparently) Amazon. As it happens, I have a single, empirical datapoint. A local hifi buddy bought a pair (I think his are Pyramid branded) for something like $11 the pair. He brought them over one day a couple of weeks back and we compared them head-to-head with the Fostex T90A on my FrankenAltecs.

The result? Well -- the T90A is more sensitive but the sensitivity of the Pyramid bullet horns was still more than adequate to keep up with the Duplexes. Soundwise, we both agreed that the T90A sounded better -- but the T90A costs a lot more than the little Pyramids -- and sounded (only) a little better. So, dollar for dollar, to add some air and sparkle (judiciously), the 'brand X' bullet horns seem to me to be perfectly competent.

mhardy6647

So -- for completeness

These are the Radio Shack 40-1310. The Japanese-made ones are held in the highest regard (imagine that) by the snobs ; later versions were made in Korea and, ultimately, China. I think the one pair I have are Korean-made.


(borrowed image from canuckaudiomart)

Here are a few of the currently-available (more or less) clones, as seen @ www.partsexpress.com


https://www.parts-express.com/pyramid-tw18-bullet-horn-super-tweeter-pair-aluminum--270-100


https://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pdbt18-bullet-horn-tweeter-pair--272-110


https://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pdbt19-375-aluminum-bullet-titanium-horn-tweeter-pair--292-2606

RamZet

OR you can replace your speakers with units that come with super tweeters:

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/CM_Series/CM10-S2.html

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/800_Series_Diamond/804-D3.html

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/800_Series_Diamond/805-D3.html

You're welcome.

mhardy6647

But then you'd have to listen to B&W loudspeakers -- which (how may I put this delicately?) aren't everybody's cup of tea.

VSAT88

mhardy6647 wrote: »

So -- for completeness

These are the Radio Shack 40-1310. The Japanese-made ones are held in the highest regard (imagine that) by the snobs ; later versions were made in Korea and, ultimately, China. I think the one pair I have are Korean-made.


(borrowed image from canuckaudiomart)

Here are a few of the currently-available (more or less) clones, as seen @ www.partsexpress.com


https://www.parts-express.com/pyramid-tw18-bullet-horn-super-tweeter-pair-aluminum--270-100


https://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pdbt18-bullet-horn-tweeter-pair--272-110


https://www.parts-express.com/pyle-pdbt19-375-aluminum-bullet-titanium-horn-tweeter-pair--292-2606

Had a set actually two sets (Radio Shack 40-1310) and loved them. Wish I had them still..Ahhh, the good ole days...Bought them right outta the Shack.

[Deleted User]

Yes, I had some too. I was wondering how many fellow polks had
tried this tweak (forgot about Doc) B & W aside. My thinking was
you could adjust placement to your liking...

To take it further, did you feel/hear a difference in your setup
ala tightening of the bass ect as is claimed?

VSAT88

rednedtugent wrote: »

Yes, I had some too. I was wondering how many fellow polks had
tried this tweak (forgot about Doc) B & W aside. My thinking was
you could adjust placement to your liking...

To take it further, did you feel/hear a difference in your setup
ala tightening of the bass ect as is claimed?

Never tried with Polks. I was a kid and cant even recall what I ran with them. Dont think I need them now but if I had a set I would hook em up just to see what they would do..or not do. Lets hear it from someone who has !

mhardy6647

Tightening of the bass? Umm... no.
Just one anecdotal data point, though -- I mean, whadda I know?

VSAT88

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-t500amkii-super-tweeter-new-version/ Holy Mackerel !!

VSAT88

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I use supertweeters every day. You probably would too if your HF drivers were (depending on the day) either Altec 802D 1" throat or JBL 2441 2" throat compression drivers on 500 Hz horns

DSC_6840 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Supertweeters are Fostex T90A -- not the best imaginable, but not bad for the money.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/bullet-tweeters/fostex-t90a-top-mount-horn-super-tweeter/

here's the crossover schematic First order with a 1 uF capacitor (8 ohm load -- you can do the math -- it's very high but first order means only 6 dB drop off per octave), with an L-pad to adjust to taste.

IMG_0340 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr


I did finally build a proper XO for these (atypical as it may seem).

075 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

No knock against ribbons, by the way. I like the sound of ribbon/planar drivers, but I really can't afford (i.e., rationalize the expenditure for) suitably sensitive ribbon drivers for my application.

Strictly all FYI/FWIW.

Love the RJ45/Cat 5 or 6 ?..Stranded or solid ?

mhardy6647

nbrowser wrote: »

...

I dunno...but the "rebadged" B&W in the first pic on this page...

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/176298/time-for-an-upgrade-something-new/p1

might sound...a touch...American.

Hee-hee! I forgot that thread! It might be recalled that the "Monitor Series" Polks were praised for their "British monitor" type sound (at bargain prices).

Speaking of that thread -- I didn't remember seeing this photo there -- this made me LOL (even shared it with Mrs. H). Brilliant.


The caption's even better, too

Timeless

mhardy6647

VSAT88 wrote: »

...

Love the RJ45/Cat 5 or 6 ?..Stranded or solid ?

Solid core CAT5. I went through -- a phase -- back in my early fleapower amp/high sensitivity loudspeaker days (mid-late 1990s). It was a thing back then in some circles.

As a consequence, I still have -- a lot -- of CAT5 castoffs (I used to pick up leftovers at work after a wiring job had rolled through our offices, BITD). A few hundred feet of odds and ends (unused); it's -- pretty good -- for hookup applications. Come to think of it, the Duplex cabinets are wired with CAT5.

EDIT: yup.

DSC_5735 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

I don't use it for runs speaker cabling any more, though -- it's better sounding (to me) than zip cord, but there are other, better sounding (again, to me) options that even I can afford/rationalize

If I had more gumption -- it might be worth rewiring the supertweeters some time. Some time.

[Deleted User]

and I ran across ELAC's version
http://elac.com/product/4-pi-plus-2-omnidirectional-ribbon-tweeter/

Yes, the claim is more focus up and down the spectrum because of these
super tweeters. (Even above the hearing threshold!)

Fostex L Pad seems the way to go... Ordered a fake super tweeter off
amazon as my wife has prime.

VSAT88

God don't get me started...This is the kind of stuff I am trying to stop doing !! I got a set of Cerwin Vega! supertweeters from some old SE 380's...and the drivers... With....Black Paint !!!

mhardy6647

Cerwin-Vega... ewww

EDIT: Actually, I sort of take that back -- those are older C-V drivers. Accordion surrounds on the woofers. Cool.

Not sure how 'super' the tweeter horns are, though.

VSAT88

LOL, not sure how super any of it is. I aint gonna lie the SE 380s sounded pretty damn good down low and up high. No, not Polk quality sound but clear and very forceful . The cabinets were trash but I listened to them for a while and liked them. Incredible for very loud rock. I did not have an amp capable of really pushing them to their potential but if you wanted to ruin your hearing with some Bolt Thrower or Iron Maiden they were right up that ally.

[Deleted User]

Bolt Thrower! Been years. Off to you tube

Nightfall

Bolt Thrower is awesome, not a bad album in the bunch.

pitdogg2

erniejade wrote: »

The old radio shack ones I think were fostex made and if memory serves me correctly, did not sound bad.

your memory is correct Brian. Boy I wish I had a case of those. They sold for 35.00pr and today they routinely sell for 100.00+

I must of went through 6-8 pairs between 1979 - 1982. They seem to disappear off the top of my speakers during parties.

mhardy6647

pitdogg2 wrote: »

erniejade wrote: »

The old radio shack ones I think were fostex made and if memory serves me correctly, did not sound bad.

your memory is correct Brian. Boy I wish I had a case of those. They sold for 35.00pr and today they routinely sell for 100.00+

I must of went through 6-8 pairs between 1979 - 1982. They seem to disappear off the top of my speakers during parties.

It gets a little complicated (I think) -- the Japanese-made ones (I think!) fetch the best $$$ on good ol' eBAY; the Korean & Chinese ones are relatively less desired by -- well -- whoever it is who desires such things

Given that a pair of the current production Fostex FT-17h 'supertweeters' costs about $100 -- I really wouldn't think a used pair of 40-1310 would be all that great of an investment. Just sayin'.

pitdogg2

VSAT88 wrote: »

God don't get me started...This is the kind of stuff I am trying to stop doing !! I got a set of Cerwin Vega! supertweeters from some old SE 380's...and the drivers... With....Black Paint !!!

I wouldn't call those super tweeters by any means. Horn loaded tweeters YES but I'm pretty sure they do not go up to 60,000kHz

WVHillbilly

Dayton Audio PT2C-8 Planar Tweeter

Brand:Dayton Audio|Model: PT2C-8|Part # 275-085

50 Bucks--Parts Express.

Superb resolution and detail for the most discerning audiophile
Wide horizontal and narrow vertical dispersion patterns
Perfect for use in line arrays
3 kHz recommended crossover frequency at 12 dB per octave

voltz

How much to build me a set of crossovers

[Deleted User]

Well I wished I had held off a couple more days but it's that 70's show time!

mhardy6647

voltz wrote: »

How much to build me a set of crossovers

What, like these? Price of parts (or send 'em to me) -- The hardest part (for a buffoon like me) is drilling holes in the boxes! Oh, and as y'all may have noticed -- I work kinda slow. I am kinda slow, in most ways that count

mhardy6647

rednedtugent wrote: »

Well I wished I had held off a couple more days but it's that 70's show time!

I think those are the ones we had atop the FrankenAltecs here -- if so, they're not bad.

Change the XO capacitors in them, stat. ANYTHING you can get will be better than what are likely a pair of 25-cent NP electrolytics (or 50-cent films, maybe?).
I assume (?????) they're first order. I am having this vague memory that the R/S 40-1310s were actually second-order -- but I am too lazy to dig 'em out and look*.

FWIW, my friend from MA had only the raw drivers, so we used my XOs, which have Sprague "Vitamin Q" caps in 'em.

---

* but I'm not, barely, too lazy to google. Yup, the R/S 40-1310s had second order networks in 'em: http://support.radioshack.com/support_audio/doc69/69686.pdf
*

mhardy6647

OK, my brain just 'sploded. This article indicates first order XOs on the Korean version (late production, maybe, since it mentions their being discontinued)?!

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/40-1310/40-1310.htm

PS Here's the reported/reputed freq. response of the 40-1310 (which, as mentioned earlier, received some support from Paul Joppa).



PPS Oh, and here's the scoop on the modern Fostex "equivalent". Derp.

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/FT17H/