Bi Amping LSiM 703s?
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Kingkwas
Posts: 92
Recently bought Polk's LSiM 703 bookshelves. Happy with them but not sure I am fully utilizing their ability.
Does Bi Amping really help?
Does 12 gague wire help?
Thoughts before I proceed are appreciated.
Does Bi Amping really help?
Does 12 gague wire help?
Thoughts before I proceed are appreciated.
AVR: Marantz SR 5011
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D
Comments
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What is your associated gear?
And welcome2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Being powered by Marantz SR 5011. Polk PSW 505 sub
AVR: Marantz SR 5011
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D -
I would amp before I tried to bi-amp. Nice AVR, but very few (if any) AVR's are going to make them sound their best. I owned a pair and loved them...great speakers.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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Read up on bi-amping here in e forum. With an AVR, the power significantly decreases with each channel you add. So most AVRs that are rated at 100 wpc might do that for two channels driven (maybe), but at 5-7 channels driven that number tanks to as low as 35-40 wpc. So what good would bi-amping do? Get a used external amp from parasound, b&k, rotel, etc. that puts out at least 100 wpc (more is better) and I think you will hear the difference.
Welcome and good luck.Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
I have a pair of 703's. First used a Yamaha rx-a2010. They sounded pretty good with a Yamaha. Then I went to a Parasound 2250 what an improvement in the sound. Them I went to a Parasound A31. The A31 brought the sound quality to a new level. Try to find a used 2250. You will not be disappointed.
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Whoa. The Parasound is expensive. More than my AVR. Do you still Bi Amp the speakers with a external amp?AVR: Marantz SR 5011
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D -
Does running the L/R thru an external amp cause any problems in a HT setup with other speakers? Like timing being off?AVR: Marantz SR 5011
L/ R: Polk Audio 703 LSiM (Bi Amp'd)
C: Polk Audio 255c - LS
R: Def Tech
Sub: PSW 505 (12 inch)
DVD: Oppo UDP 203
TV: 2016 Sony XBR 75X850D -
Does running the L/R thru an external amp cause any problems in a HT setup with other speakers? Like timing being off?
No....plus you really don't need to bi-amp the 703's, they are an easy speaker to drive with most any receiver/amp.
Good sound is not just the job of the speakers. Your electronics, cables, source material/room also play a part in what your going to hear.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Can't hurt to try it if youre only doing 2 channel. You decide. Either way a separate amp will likely make a greater dif in your listening pleasure.Does Bi Amping really help?
IME* mo' bigga' mo' betta'.Does 12 gauge wire help?
* 37 years
Tony
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work -
Read up on bi-amping here in e forum. With an AVR, the power significantly decreases with each channel you add. So most AVRs that are rated at 100 wpc might do that for two channels driven (maybe), but at 5-7 channels driven that number tanks to as low as 35-40 wpc. So what good would bi-amping do? Get a used external amp from parasound, b&k, rotel, etc. that puts out at least 100 wpc (more is better) and I think you will hear the difference.
Welcome and good luck.
We have several AVR's of different brands, prices and Vintages.
Found when running in straight 2 channel mode, any of them are able to sound good and go fairly loud. Only the cheaper ones, when in 5 channel mode, and at high levels run out of steam easier.
on our separate amps, yes there "Is" a difference, but not nearly as pronouned as I have seen many say. It matters mostly if running without a sub and at high levels for sure, but at moderate levels or even somewhat loud, mostly a non issue, even with the cheapo yamaha to our surprise.
It depends on a lot of factors. -
A dedicated amp will provide noticeable improvements at low listening levels verses an AVR if one knows how to listen.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
A generalization followed by a flawed conclusion. Logical Fallacies.
Unless one has heard every Amp and every AVR.......One is making a generalization based on one's own very limited personal experience or simply their opinion or likes.
"If one knows HOW to listen" falsely implying that anyone that disagrees or does not share the same opinion, does not know how "to listen".
One can not "Trust their ears" and at the same time put out absolute statements.
Absolute statements have no place in a subjective endeavor.
You can not have it both ways.
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It depends on a lot of factors.
Followed with....A generalization followed by a flawed conclusion. Logical Fallacies.
You have a bad habit of sticking your foot in your mouth.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Followed with....It depends on a lot of factors.
You have a bad habit of sticking your foot in your mouth.A generalization followed by a flawed conclusion. Logical Fallacies.
What we hear is what we hear..........
And at the same time, you seem to have make many statements that you believe must apply to all and be absolutely true, in an objective sense.
A subjective hobby can not have objectively true answers.
You are merely making subjective comments and hoping they pass as facts to the uninitiated.
If you have heard literally every amp and ARV, pardon me for being wrong.
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You are the one taking everything I say as fact, so that's your problem. Just because I offered an opposing view based on my near 50 years of experience in this hobby is no reason to get your panties in a bunch.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You both suck. Deal with it.
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LOL2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Regardless of who's make of speaker system that you use..you will never get the desired effect bi amping using a AVR...period.
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Regardless of who's make of speaker system that you use..you will never get the desired effect bi amping using a AVR...period.
This ^^^^^HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
You are the one taking everything I say as fact, so that's your problem. Just because I offered an opposing view based on my near 50 years of experience in this hobby is no reason to get your panties in a bunch.
"If someone knows how to listen"???
Implying someone that disagrees, does not know how to listen.????
Your personal "opinions" are just that. Something that applies to only yourself and your beliefs, in "What you hear".
Telling people they are wrong constantly has no place in a subjective hobby.
Me being Female, has nothing to do with my comments.
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No more mud slinging pleaseSamsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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You are the one taking everything I say as fact, so that's your problem. Just because I offered an opposing view based on my near 50 years of experience in this hobby is no reason to get your panties in a bunch.
"If someone knows how to listen"???
Implying someone that disagrees, does not know how to listen.????
Your personal "opinions" are just that. Something that applies to only yourself and your beliefs, in "What you hear".
Telling people they are wrong constantly has no place in a subjective hobby.
Me being Female, has nothing to do with my comments.
A majority of folks here know what my comment, "If someone knows how to listen" means. Same with the panties comment. You are the one implying things.
Frankly, it saddens me to see you embarrass yourself attacking me.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
A generalization followed by a flawed conclusion. Logical Fallacies.
Unless one has heard every Amp and every AVR.......One is making a generalization based on one's own very limited personal experience or simply their opinion or likes.
"If one knows HOW to listen" falsely implying that anyone that disagrees or does not share the same opinion, does not know how "to listen".
One can not "Trust their ears" and at the same time put out absolute statements.
Absolute statements have no place in a subjective endeavor.
You can not have it both ways.
I think your missing his point KM. In respect to "how to listen", many don't, just a simple fact. To be fair though, many don't care either. That's where many in this audio hobby of ours part company and opinions usually follow along those lines.....preferences aside.
In regards to amps not making a difference at lower volumes.....all depends, most times it's not the amps fault but a failure to address other shortcomings within one's system. Could be cabling, impedance issues, synergy, material you listen to, etc. Most times than not too, using an amp that requires 2 volts on the input to drive to full power from a receiver that only puts out 1 volt on the outputs may also be a reason your lower level details are not as pronounced as they are once the volume gets turned up.
Sometimes in this hobby, we like to place blame on a piece of gear when in reality we should be looking at the sum total of all parts included. For instance, XYZ speakers sound horrible, but then no steps are taken to address why and some are more content just flipping speakers. Being able to discern signature sounds of brands or individual pieces helps to find what might synergize in your system to play to your preferences. That takes some critical listening abilities, not your passive casual ones. That's more to F1NUTS point, I think anyway, he may have other observations. Just sayin' is all, chill out and have some ice cream. lol Nobody frowns eating ice cream.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
A generalization followed by a flawed conclusion. Logical Fallacies.
Unless one has heard every Amp and every AVR.......One is making a generalization based on one's own very limited personal experience or simply their opinion or likes.
"If one knows HOW to listen" falsely implying that anyone that disagrees or does not share the same opinion, does not know how "to listen".
One can not "Trust their ears" and at the same time put out absolute statements.
Absolute statements have no place in a subjective endeavor.
You can not have it both ways.
That takes some critical listening abilities, ***not your passive casual ones***.
I get it, to some degree, the realm of good listening skills is somehow only in older, mostly white males. But I suppose the skill of talking down, being right all the time, and a patronizing tone, is part of that listening skill set. -
Every amp I have used in my system sounds markedly different. K_M, I can tell you've never critically listened to a higher end amp. If you did, your opinions would be different.
To the op, biamping with an avr is a waste of time and biamping those speakers isn't necessary.
You don't really state what your goal is, so I can't really make a recommendation.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
A generalization followed by a flawed conclusion. Logical Fallacies.
Unless one has heard every Amp and every AVR.......One is making a generalization based on one's own very limited personal experience or simply their opinion or likes.
"If one knows HOW to listen" falsely implying that anyone that disagrees or does not share the same opinion, does not know how "to listen".
One can not "Trust their ears" and at the same time put out absolute statements.
Absolute statements have no place in a subjective endeavor.
You can not have it both ways.
That takes some critical listening abilities, ***not your passive casual ones***.
I get it, to some degree, the realm of good listening skills is somehow only in older, mostly white males. But I suppose the skill of talking down, being right all the time, and a patronizing tone, is part of that listening skill set.
Dear Lord, is everything about male/female to you ? That is and was not my intended meaning and I think you know that. I did not apply gender to anything in my post.
I know this is the internet and all, but once your in tune to the multiple personalities around the forum you can better decipher what is condescending and what is sarcasm. It's fairly easy to misconstrue statements on the internet. Go eat some ice cream. Sheesh....
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Every amp I have used in my system sounds markedly different. K_M, I can tell you've never critically listened to a higher end amp. If you did, your opinions would be different.
H9
That is a logical fallacy.
Circular reasoning.
Anyone that disagrees obviously does not have a legitimate understanding, if they did, they would agree with me.
Never said anything about amps sounding the same, wrong person.
I get what you are trying to say, but it is simply not correct in my case.
I think we are back to the same logic I see several use in this forum:
Anyone is free to disagree, but they are always wrong......lol
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"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
A generalization followed by a flawed conclusion. Logical Fallacies.
Unless one has heard every Amp and every AVR.......One is making a generalization based on one's own very limited personal experience or simply their opinion or likes.
"If one knows HOW to listen" falsely implying that anyone that disagrees or does not share the same opinion, does not know how "to listen".
One can not "Trust their ears" and at the same time put out absolute statements.
Absolute statements have no place in a subjective endeavor.
You can not have it both ways.
That takes some critical listening abilities, ***not your passive casual ones***.
I get it, to some degree, the realm of good listening skills is somehow only in older, mostly white males. But I suppose the skill of talking down, being right all the time, and a patronizing tone, is part of that listening skill set.
Dear Lord, is everything about male/female to you ? That is and was not my intended meaning and I think you know that. I did not apply gender to anything in my post.
I know this is the internet and all, but once your in tune to the multiple personalities around the forum you can better decipher what is condescending and what is sarcasm. It's fairly easy to misconstrue statements on the internet. Go eat some ice cream. Sheesh....
No everything is not Male/Female, sorry to mention that.
I think I see a case of "5 guys say capacitor X is horrible"
someone else comes in and says " I think capacitor X is great"
And 5 guys reply back with "Well obviously you like it, you lack the experience to realize how bad capacitor X truly is", meanwhile they have no idea what the dissenting persons actual experience is, nor why they like something they do not.
