I got new news on B&K.

mantis

I got some disturbing news from B&K of today. Yes they are back in business but I was told they are the new B&k and not the old as well all know and love. I was sat down and told "the old B&K is dead". The new B&K brand is trying to honor the old.
I was also informed that AVR's are tricky business and they don't see one coming for at least a few years. Depressing like a shot to the gut. I was trying not to get my hopes up but man as much as I love B&k, I did and got dropped.
Have you ever looked around you and just felt lost? That is how I feel about the new B&k. Why bring back something and not be what you are bringing back? Yeah they got some amps but without the preamp who really cares? I do to to a point but I'm not going to buy an amp and not a preamp. I don' want anyone else's preamp. Hell why not just a preamp and amp from the same company at that point? I'm so out on that.
The Multi channel is very interesting for house audio and thats really it for me.

Nightfall

Déjà vu.

tonyb

Company's get bought and sold all the time Dan, new personnel new executives, new directions. If you were really expecting the new owners of a brand name to adhere to the same principles as the old owners , I think that may have been a stretch.

3500 buck receivers are a hard sell these days, especially with the pace of technology changes.

Amps-pre amps.....how many of us do not have matching amps and pre's ? I'd say the majority. I don't see that as an issue. It will remain to be seen if the new owners of B&k improve on the old designs or falter into mediocracy like so many other brands.

msg

Bummer. But who didn't see this coming?

Dan, bright side, at least you still have the stuff you have?
Enjoy every minute with it

mantis

tonyb wrote: »

Company's get bought and sold all the time Dan, new personnel new executives, new directions. If you were really expecting the new owners of a brand name to adhere to the same principles as the old owners , I think that may have been a stretch.

3500 buck receivers are a hard sell these days, especially with the pace of technology changes.

Amps-pre amps.....how many of us do not have matching amps and pre's ? I'd say the majority. I don't see that as an issue. It will remain to be seen if the new owners of B&k improve on the old designs or falter into mediocracy like so many other brands.

Wishful thinking I guess. I
I'd Pay 3500 for a new AVR especially if it was like the older models with the ability to be upgraded.
I don't think you need to have matching pre and amp but I personally like that for looks. really took it pretty hard when B&K was going out of business. I went to the factory and did training back in 2000 and was blown away by the sheer quality of everything. Hand built you bet. They had people assembling everything. They fully believed in sound quality first. I always felt their preamps where amazing. Full featured and had Notch filters before anyone else had room correction. Not to mention the Notch Filters worked amazing and MUCH better then ANY correction system I have used including Pioneer Elite's MCACC which is about the best in the business for AVR's.

tonyb

Your in the minority Dan if you'd pay 3500 for a receiver these days. Probably why B&k couldn't make it too. Quality costs money, we all get that, but fewer and fewer can afford quality these days and it's pretty hard to build a company on a niche group that can. Let alone the risk of having that 3500 receiver become obsolete in an ever changing tech world.

Companies will always cater to the segments of the consumer base that will buy their goods. If Polk just made 2-3k speakers, they'd be out of business. Products companies offer is a reactionary process to what's going on around you, economy, business climate, wages, everything is tied together. It's painfully obvious to me anyway that companies are shooting lower and lower at targeted consumer segments in order to sell enough product to stay afloat.

Doesn't make sense though right ? The people with the least money are spending the most ? Yeah, it can be, would be interesting to see sales figures from Polk for all their lines. What they spend on though is bang for your buck products, and Polk excels at that category. Walmart too though quality is not their thing, but cheap is. Many put cheap above quality when it comes to consumer goods. Bottom line is, the population of consumers here, a good chunk anyway, are more interested in low cost items than high quality higher priced items. That also makes it hard for companies to manufacture stuff here and forces them to buy cheap parts from China or other Asian countries.

What I see eventually happening is, audio, especially HT products like receivers are going to have to become more like a computer. Able to upgrade with a simple download like your phone or desktop/tablet. They'll still be able to force you to upgrade the gear by offering new models with new gizmos like Apple does. Many are already like computers, but they purposely make them incompatible with new formats, connections not rated for new signals. Remember the whole HDMI thing and all the versions of that and the handshake issues that came with it ? Now we have versions of USB too. This practice drives a bunch of side industries too, but it is the consumer who is always asked to bend over. People are tired of that crap, they will not keep spending thousands on audio every few years, and companies are always trying to find ways to do exactly that.

I have a feeling the new owners of B&k will rely on the brands previous reputation to sell product. It will work too, initially, but if they fail to deliver ....well, kiss them goodbye again.

EndersShadow

Personally I'm a big fan of what Outlaw Audio did with their bare bones pre. I also *HOPE* that tonyb is right in that upgrades become more firmware based than hardware based.

I'm going to just pony up the money this year on a better pre-pro and reach as high up as I can and then call it for a few years. I still forsee the next format war being the diff high contrast resolutions for TV screens, so I am hopefully buying a pre that can handle both.

Mainly I'm trying to get to HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 and then be done for 4 years or so. My current Denon can only do HDMI 1.3 and HDCP 2.0 IIRC.

ZLTFUL

EndersShadow wrote: »

Personally I'm a big fan of what Outlaw Audio did with their bare bones pre. I also *HOPE* that tonyb is right in that upgrades become more firmware based than hardware based.

I'm going to just pony up the money this year on a better pre-pro and reach as high up as I can and then call it for a few years. I still forsee the next format war being the diff high contrast resolutions for TV screens, so I am hopefully buying a pre that can handle both.

Mainly I'm trying to get to HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 and then be done for 4 years or so. My current Denon can only do HDMI 1.3 and HDCP 2.0 IIRC.

Your 4100 has HDMI 2.0 but is not capable of doing HDCP 2.2, Dan.

EndersShadow

^Thats what I meant. I also want 4K HDR and UDH or whatever they are as I can foresee my plasma getting rotated upstairs and a new TV in the next few years

mantis

tonyb wrote: »

Your in the minority Dan if you'd pay 3500 for a receiver these days. Probably why B&k couldn't make it too. Quality costs money, we all get that, but fewer and fewer can afford quality these days and it's pretty hard to build a company on a niche group that can. Let alone the risk of having that 3500 receiver become obsolete in an ever changing tech world.

Companies will always cater to the segments of the consumer base that will buy their goods. If Polk just made 2-3k speakers, they'd be out of business. Products companies offer is a reactionary process to what's going on around you, economy, business climate, wages, everything is tied together. It's painfully obvious to me anyway that companies are shooting lower and lower at targeted consumer segments in order to sell enough product to stay afloat.

Doesn't make sense though right ? The people with the least money are spending the most ? Yeah, it can be, would be interesting to see sales figures from Polk for all their lines. What they spend on though is bang for your buck products, and Polk excels at that category. Walmart too though quality is not their thing, but cheap is. Many put cheap above quality when it comes to consumer goods. Bottom line is, the population of consumers here, a good chunk anyway, are more interested in low cost items than high quality higher priced items. That also makes it hard for companies to manufacture stuff here and forces them to buy cheap parts from China or other Asian countries.

What I see eventually happening is, audio, especially HT products like receivers are going to have to become more like a computer. Able to upgrade with a simple download like your phone or desktop/tablet. They'll still be able to force you to upgrade the gear by offering new models with new gizmos like Apple does. Many are already like computers, but they purposely make them incompatible with new formats, connections not rated for new signals. Remember the whole HDMI thing and all the versions of that and the handshake issues that came with it ? Now we have versions of USB too. This practice drives a bunch of side industries too, but it is the consumer who is always asked to bend over. People are tired of that crap, they will not keep spending thousands on audio every few years, and companies are always trying to find ways to do exactly that.

I have a feeling the new owners of B&k will rely on the brands previous reputation to sell product. It will work too, initially, but if they fail to deliver ....well, kiss them goodbye again.

It's facts like that I care to ignore. But I get it and see it very single day.
But there are plenty of people out there who buy quality stuff as well.

Thats not what Killed B&K, HDMI did. They had terrible issues with it , the high demand to come out with a auto correction system and try to keep up with the every evolving formats in home theater took B&K out. I know this as I talked to the engineers before they went under. Remember the AVR707 and REf70? That was the last offering and it was a hit or miss and had issues.

When I was told they where not coming out with preamps or AVR's anytime soon , that was a huge punch to the gut feeling. At that moment along with them not really being B&k anymore made me want to throw in the towel.

Honestly dude I've been lost in our industry for many years, actually since 2008. I've been wondering around trying to find something to cling on.

Nightfall

mantis wrote: »

I've been wandering around trying to find something to cling on to.

Music.

kharp1

The above is exactly why I chose to not be involved in the HT marketing rat race BS. I've been out of HT several years and have no desire to get in. The average American home isn't conducive to proper HT setup anyway. The square footage is just not there for most. Having had quality HT setups, and, conversely having not had them, I can honestly say I'm much happier without. A soundbar is about as far as u will go in my home.

2 channel rules.

kharp1

Having said that I will also say I hope the new B&K can produce quality sounding pieces like it's namesake did originally.

nooshinjohn

mantis wrote: »

Have you ever looked around you and just felt lost? That is how I feel about the new B&k.

Happens to me all the time. I felt that way when Hong Kong Fuey was cancelled.

tonyb

kharp1 wrote: »

Having said that I will also say I hope the new B&K can produce quality sounding pieces like it's namesake did originally.

One can hope, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that account. If they couldn't make it then, how are they going to make it now....all things being equal, in a more expensive environment.

Plus other have made strides in their absence. Marantz makes a darn good pre/pro, Yamaha and Pioneer make darn good receivers, they have some stiff competition. I don't see how they can do marginally better and keep prices comparable.

EndersShadow

^Given the products they are releasing, I anticipate they are going to stick with the more commercial offerings for use by custom shops as thats a smaller market IMHO. Not many regular folks want a 12 channel amp, or even a 2.1 channel amp like they are marketing.

For custom shops though, its a solution they can sell and install easily enough. I think that 2.1 amp is pretty darn cool and could see one in my bedroom rocking some bookshelves and a sub, but I'm NOT the majority of folks lol.

tonyb

Which baffles me Dan. A 12 channel amp is used for in home multi room setups, and that is usually a custom install. Commercial applications aside. Your average joe isn't shopping for 12 channel amps. In home multi room setups are now becoming the Sonos and Bluesound products that can be retro fitted to any system without wires and at a price a bigger consumer base can afford. Commercial is even a smaller niche market than higher end HT products.

That's the kind of product your going to put out to re-introduce the brand ? Red flags are going up in my head.

I'm not sure if the new B&k even has a business model to follow, their direction seems lost at least to me. Putting out amps without any pre amps or processors is putting the cart before the horse.

I'd like to see the brand come back in all it's glory, but you have to admit, so far it's not very encouraging.

DaveHo

Indy Audio Labs has managed to revive the Aragon & Acurus brands. They appear to have met if not surpassed the originals in terms of quality, albeit at a cost. If B&K can follow that model they may have a shot.

EndersShadow

DaveHo wrote: »

Indy Audio Labs has managed to revive the Aragon & Acurus brands. They appear to have met if not surpassed the originals in terms of quality, albeit at a cost. If B&K can follow that model they may have a shot.

Yeah, I need to see if they will let me stop in and checkout their shop since they are local. Same with Klipsch....

tonyb

DSkip wrote: »

B&K was at CEDIA this year and there was literally nothing there that spoke to me at all. I went over with great interest and left forgetting they were even there. They are simply riding the name currently and its glaringly obvious.

Glad someone else see's that.

mantis

DSkip wrote: »

B&K was at CEDIA this year and there was literally nothing there that spoke to me at all. I went over with great interest and left forgetting they were even there. They are simply riding the name currently and its glaringly obvious.

Sad

pitdogg2

DSkip wrote: »

B&K was at CEDIA this year and there was literally nothing there that spoke to me at all. I went over with great interest and left forgetting they were even there. They are simply riding the name currently and its glaringly obvious.

Ask them if they know how that worked out for ....say Zenith