More speaker wire talk...

Joey_V
Joey_V Posts: 8,552
in 2 Channel Audio
Wel wel wel....

So last night I actually had time to demo the wires better.

Ofc 12g vs Audioquest wel 12g.

Just to be sure that I wasn't hearing things I connected one wel to one speaker and one ofc to the other.

It was output symmetric meaning each speaker put out same db.

I went from one speaker to the next and just listened to 1 driver. The midrange driver.

And there was a significant reproducible difference. The wel was better for sure. The other sounded hazy and harsh comparatively.

The differences were so pronounced that I'd have no problem putting money on the line had someone really pushed me. I'll put whatever money on the line and I'd pick the wel everytime.

Then I switched back and forth to full wel vs full ofc.... I was really really trying to see if I was just hearing things because nothing would make me happier than to hear minimal to no differences and I could resell the wel and use that money for more gear...

My final thoughts?

I cannot believe it took me 8 years to listen to the crap spewed on this forum.

...Only to find it was actually true.
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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Comments

  • WagnerRC
    WagnerRC Posts: 2,157
    The sound difference is dramatic between cables. Happy to hear you're happy
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    WagnerRC wrote: »
    The sound difference is dramatic between cables. Happy to hear you're happy

    I was more hoping I would not hear a difference and would just go back to cheapo land.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    You have crossed the one way bridge into cable hell. Welcome.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    lightman1 wrote: »
    You have crossed the one way bridge into cable hell. Welcome.

    Tell me about it Russ. Frick me...
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,648
    **Waits for xcrappy to show up and teach you about expectation bias**










    >:)
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    (FWIW) expectation bias always seems to work in reverse for me :(

    I spend money on stuff and it doesn't sound better enough for me to justify the money I spent.
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  • msg
    msg Posts: 10,020
    Congratulations, Joey, welcome, and... Also, my condolences. I hoped for the same. Unfortunately, the changes are undeniable.
    I disabled signatures.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    Hearing is believing Joey. All we ask is for open minds and open ears......AND no, you don't have to spend WEL kinda coin to hear the differences either.

    My argument to you Joey, and no offense brother, but you have had some nice gear over the years, imagine you may have kept a piece or 2 if you had decent cables hooked up to them. Just sayin'....because you never know the full potential until you marry a piece with the right cables.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    tonyb wrote: »
    Hearing is believing Joey. All we ask is for open minds and open ears......AND no, you don't have to spend WEL kinda coin to hear the differences either.

    My argument to you Joey, and no offense brother, but you have had some nice gear over the years, imagine you may have kept a piece or 2 if you had decent cables hooked up to them. Just sayin'....because you never know the full potential until you marry a piece with the right cables.

    Yeah that's kinda what I was also thinking but ... I guess I wasn't ready to spend the coin
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
    A too far open mind leads to brains on the floor. :o
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  • agfrost
    agfrost Posts: 2,428
    DSkip wrote: »
    An open mind leads to an open wallet.

    The man speaks truth...
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    rednedtugent wrote: »
    A too far open mind leads to brains on the floor. :o

    I agree to this
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    edited November 2016
    DSkip wrote: »
    An open mind leads to an open wallet.

    An open wallet can be full.

    An open mind leads to an empty wallet
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 10,716
    I think I'll have Chinese tonight. ;)
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    I have beer.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    rednedtugent wrote: »
    I think I'll have Chinese tonight. ;)
    rednedtugent wrote: »
    I think I'll have Chinese tonight. ;)

    Your fortunes are bountiful, dig deep into the rice bowl.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I have beer.

    I think I'm running low
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • halo
    halo Posts: 5,616
    I honestly believe that you need to have some pretty decent gear in order to hear any difference with cables / wires / interconnects / cords.

    I also believe that the room, the biggest component in your setup, has to be able to reveal these differences to you.

    In other words, a lot of things have to come together for changes to be noticed with ease. I guess that's synergy. It takes a lot of trial and error to find what works best for you and what works best for you may not work at all for someone else.

    Enjoy the music Doc :smile:
    Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
    HT: Samsung QN90B * Marantz NR1510 * Panasonic DMP-BDT220 * Roku Ultra LT * APC H10
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  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,670
    Joey_V wrote: »
    lightman1 wrote: »
    I have beer.

    I think I'm running low

    I'm also low on beer, because I have hairy arms and drink bourbon. B)
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,552
    edited November 2016
    halo wrote: »
    I honestly believe that you need to have some pretty decent gear in order to hear any difference with cables / wires / interconnects / cords.

    I also believe that the room, the biggest component in your setup, has to be able to reveal these differences to you.

    In other words, a lot of things have to come together for changes to be noticed with ease. I guess that's synergy. It takes a lot of trial and error to find what works best for you and what works best for you may not work at all for someone else.

    Enjoy the music Doc :smile:

    You speak some truth my friend, Victor.

    Case in point:

    My brother had brought home (from his dealer) some AQ, not sure which. Also brought home some cardas. Both about retail $2,000.

    He plugged to his system, I asked him what he thought. His response? Difference heard, but not worth the cost.

    Fast forward a couple years. We plug in the AQ Oaks into MY system ($3,000 retail)... we listened. First song - he says, "On your system, the cost differential is worth it. It actually makes a much bigger difference than on mine. I'd buy them if I were you."

    And that's how this whole thing started. Once I heard AQ in my system, I talked with my other high end buddies and we discussed cabling... I always kept going back to AQ for what they stood for and what Bill Low's vision is. I guess I bought into the kool aid and I wanted to go balls out.

    Then I found the WEL and the rest is history.

    Btw, his system is BW804d2 and Musical Fidelity upstreams. Sounds pretty good actually. A little bright for me because I'm used to a much more rounded, analog sounding system.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,962
    Joey,

    That may be an obscure case, the reality of the situation is.....every brand of gear or cables has a signature sound to it with different series of the brands carrying different versions of that signature sound.

    The trick obviously, is trying to marry all those different sound signatures between pieces in your system, cables, speakers, to achieve the end result you desire. Easier said than done.

    I like to get my ear on many things, that way I know roughly the sound signatures of many brands and the recipe I would need to achieve the results I want. Room not withstanding of course.

    Many can't do that though, and some things in this hobby of ours requires a leap of faith, an educated guess, talking to people with ears you trust. That's how we move forward in our musical journey.

    Glad to see the WEL's are playing nice with it's companions, and you. Just puts a smile on your face when you hit something that works well doesn't it ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,802
    edited December 2016
    I may be violating an explicit or implicit rule posting a link to another forum (if so, 1) I apologize and 2) please delete) -- but even I, cable agnostic that I am, found this thread (see link below) most amusing.

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/welcome-to-the-grand-illusion.745026/

    Heck, even I know why one might make a "hollow core" cable -- I doubt that misrepresenting the cabling in question was the key motivation!
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  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    (FWIW) expectation bias always seems to work in reverse for me :(

    I spend money on stuff and it doesn't sound better enough for me to justify the money I spent.

    I hear ya! i definately have those moments
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


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  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    nbrowser wrote: »
    Welcome to our world Joey, I still remember the day I got my hands on a pair of Transparent MusicWave Bi-wire cables and put them between my amp and the RTiA7s...it's like a whole new world to me at the time, now I run MITs on the SDAs...so much nicer.

    I remember when I thought Monster cables were top notch :wink:
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


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